Vince Sr. era question

[Manute Bol]

Anyone have any knowledge on the Vince Sr. era, which I guess would encompass 1953-1982? I know it's a broad range, but I'm trying to figure out who were the big stars/regulars of the time. I'm only looking for male wrestlers here, so no managers (Blassie, Albano, Grand Wizard) or female wrestlers (Moolah).

Any input at all is greatly appreciated!

1. Andre the Giant
2. Antonino Rocca
3. Arnold Skaaland
4. Baron Mikel Scicluna
5. The Blackjacks
6. Bob Backlund
7. Bobo Brazil
8. Bruno Sammartino
9. Buddy Rogers
10. Chief Jay Strongbow
11. Dominic DeNucci
12. Don Muraco
13. Ernie Ladd
14. George "The Animal" Steele
15. Gorgeous George
16. Gorilla Monsoon
17. Happy Humphrey
18. Haystacks Calhoun
19. Ivan Koloff
20. Ivan Putski
21. Jesse "The Body" Ventura
22. Johnny Rodz
23. Ken Patera
24. Killer Kowalski
25. Larry Zbyszko
26. Mil Mascaras
27. Mr. Fuji
28. Mr. Saito
29. Nikolai Volkoff
30. Pat Patterson
31. Pedro Morales
32. Professor Tanaka
33. Sgt. Slaughter
34. Spiros Arion
35. Stan Hansen
36. Stan Stasiak
37. Superfly Jimmy Snuka
38. Superstar Billy Graham
39. Tony Atlas
40. The Valiant Brothers
41. The Wild Samoans

[jason1980s]

Edit: 2 hours and no one but me replies, does anyone but me and the OP care about the guys who helped build WWWF into what would become WWF? Without most of these guys mentioned WWF would not exist and there would be no Wrestlemania. These guys may not have made a PPV but they literally built WWWF for Vince J. McMahon and most were honored by Vince J. McMahon with 1994-1996 Hall of Fame inductions. The OP's list of talent are men who made WWWF and should be honored by any fan who enjoyed 1980s/1990s WWF.

[flowercity]

Aug 1, 2021 19:15:05 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

Edit: 2 hours and no one but me replies, does anyone but me and the OP care about the guys who helped build WWWF into what would become WWF? Without most of these guys mentioned WWF would not exist and there would be no Wrestlemania. These guys may not have made a PPV but they literally built WWWF for Vince J. McMahon and most were honored by Vince J. McMahon with 1994-1996 Hall of Fame inductions. The OP's list of talent are men who made WWWF and should be honored by any fan who enjoyed 1980s/1990s WWF.

My lack of interest mostly is based around that I don’t really enjoy watching the product from that era. In the 70s, Japan and Mexico are a much better product. Also have enjoyed the little of Houston and St. Louis I have seen.

[El Pollo Guerrera]

Aug 1, 2021 19:15:05 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

Edit: 2 hours and no one but me replies, does anyone but me and the OP care about the guys who helped build WWWF into what would become WWF? Without most of these guys mentioned WWF would not exist and there would be no Wrestlemania. These guys may not have made a PPV but they literally built WWWF for Vince J. McMahon and most were honored by Vince J. McMahon with 1994-1996 Hall of Fame inductions. The OP's list of talent are men who made WWWF and should be honored by any fan who enjoyed 1980s/1990s WWF.

It's not a lack of caring, it's a lack of knowledge. I'd love to be able to dig into an archive of 60's or 70's WWWF shows just to see what was going on, but where can you get that footage?

[Triangle Lancer]

At the start, some guys you could point to: Dr. Jerry & Eddie Graham, hated bleached-blonde team known as the "Golden" Grahams.
Rocca would frequently team with Miguel Perez (Sr.) to face them, hugely popular duo.
The original Royal Kangaroos (Al Costello & Roy Heffernan) were another team fans wanted to get a piece of, using their boomerang as a weapon to steal wins.
The Basteins were another popular pair.
(Most main events were tag affairs then, usually for the US Tag Titles.)

As far as I'm aware of, there is only a couple of TV shows available from the mid-60s "if you know where to look" (*wink, wink). A young, freshly heel Cowboy Bill Watts is in that footage. (Watts was the first "Bruno protege" to turn on his mentor.)

Looking at your list, almost every one of those guys was a star of some sort.
Been reading the book on Hawaii by Ed Francis, and he puts over "Handsome" Johnny Barend as a huge star. He was another big name in the area in the 60s. Think Buff Bagwell in the top hat, but with a cigar and actual ability.

[Squirrel Master]

Bruiser Brody
High Chief Peter Maivia
Rocky Johnson

[jason1980s]

I actually am not a big fan of the 1960s, 70s era wrestlers. I was born in the 80s so I love the characters that came out in the 80s and 90s but I do have a huge respect for the 60s, 70s WWWF guys. I probably speak more about them in wrestling groups than any other era wrestlers and it's always sad when people have no clue who they are. It amazes me that people even confuse Jimmy and Johnny Valiant and people who have met Jimmy sometimes don't even know Johnny existed. And those that knew Johnny from the 80s don't know that Jimmy existed.

WWF did a great job honoring so many in their 1994-1996 classes but time moved on and those guys have mostly been forgotten. But 1960s, 70s is the history that started what would become WWF, WWE. From 1994-1996 Vince K knew that he was honoring guys who literally helped build the WWWF for his father. And probably everyone listed on the OP could probably have a job for life or at the very least would be brought back year after year if they wanted.

[Triangle Lancer]

Aug 2, 2021 13:08:26 GMT -5 Squirrel Master said:

Bruiser Brody
High Chief Peter Maivia
Rocky Johnson

I've said this before, I wish there was more of heel Peter Maivia out there. The true "head of the table": built like a house, ripped, and could run through anybody.
But it's like, he turns heel (great angle; he gets Backlund to yell "I'm gonna kill that son of a bitch" on TV), gets 3 with Bob at MSG and more or less disappeared, save for the occasional one-off return.

[dangerousdanpotato]

It's a daunting task to list 30 years of wrestlers and not an era when I was watching. But I've been taking an interest for several years and especially during the last year I've taken to trying to read just once a day about some of the names I don't recognise from old WWWF shows. There's a rich history of fascinating characters. I really don't know exactly who was a longstay or who was just passing through, but here's a list of performers who appeared at MSG in the 1960s:

Jerry Colt; Gordo Chihuahua; Ron Reed; Tommy O'Toole; Pat Barrett; Tony Manousos; Tim Woods; Miguel Torres; Bruno Sammartino; Bobo Brazil; Johnny Barend; Magnificent Maurice; Buddy Rogers; Dory Dixon; Skull Murphy; Brute Bernard; Pedro Morales; Miguel Perez; The Great Scott; Karl Steif (The Golden Terror); Al Costello; Roy Heffernan; Bobby Colt; Chris Tolos; John Tolos; Vittorio 'Argentina' Apollo; Hans 'The Great' Mortier; Sailor Art Thomas; Willie Bath; Pete Sanchez; 'Prince' Tony Nero; Bob Boyer; Ox Anderson; Little Beaver; Tiny Tim; Sky Low Low; Billy The Kid; Diamond Jack; Jolly Cholly; Edouard Carpentier; Gorilla Monsoon; Killer Kowalski; Lucas Pestrano; Pedro Rodriguez; Farmer Pete; Irish Jackie; Joe Quinosis; Boris Malenko; George Drake; Pancho Lopez; Fuzzy Cupid; Vito Gonzalez; Klondike Bill; Dr. Jerry Graham; Gino Brito (Louis Cerdan); Tony Marino; Don McClarity; Sonny Boy Cassidy; Bill Watts; Shohei Baba; Ernie Ladd; Lou Bastien; Bobby Davis; 'Crazy' Luke Graham; Matt Gilmore; Luke Brown; Grizzly Smith; Max Mortier; Lou Albano; Bulldog Gannon; Red Bastien; Manuel 'Cyclone' Soto; Freddie Blassie; Cowboy Bradley; Wild Red Berry; Bull Johnson; Waldo Von Erich; Robert Duranton; Ted Lewin; Arnold Skaaland; Steve Stanlee; Haystacks Calhoun; Gene Kiniski; Sam Steamboat; Jim Hady; Eddie Graham; Kenny Ackles; Smasher Sloan; Sweet Daddy Siki; Wahoo McDaniel; Tony Newberry; Chief Big Heart; Chief White Owl; Jamaica Kid; The Sheik; Dr. Bill Miller; Gus Callas; Johnny Valentine; Ricky Sexton; Tarzan Tyler; Frank Martinez; Angelo Savoldi; Herbie Starr; Tomas Marin; Dan Miller; Baron Mikel Scicluna; Lord Littlebrook; Rollie The Hawk; Antonio Pugliese; Prince Curtis Iaukea; The Beast; Johnny Carr; Ronnie Etchison;'El Toro' Bull Ortega; Roberto Gonzalez;Tank Morgan; Mr. Kleen; Bulldog Brower; Arman Hussein; Spiros Arion; The Ox; Ray Stevens; Prof. Toru Tanaka; Little Brutus; Johnny Rodz; Frank Holtz; Buster 'Guillotine' Gordon; Bob Taylor; Tony Altimore; Dominic DeNucci; Victor Rivera; Bull Ramos; Mario Fratarolli; Earl Maynard; Wes Hutchins; Virgil The Kentucky Butcher; George 'Crybaby' Cannon; Frenchy Lamont; Mike Paidousis; George ' The Animal' Steele; Carlos Colon; Lenny Solomon; Frank Hickey; Dick Steinborn; Chuck Adcox; Rocky Fitzpatrick; Ernie Lassiter;'Pee Wee' Joey Russell; Ron Sanders; Bob Harmon; John L. Sullivan; Thunderbolt Patterson; Tom Branden; Duke Savage; Little Bruiser; Mitsu Arakawa; Joe Cox; Larry Tyler; Jean DuBois; Eric The Red; Ivan Koloff.

OP, from your list I think Gorgeous George is a red herring, he was more of an NWA guy (appears to have worked Capitol Wrestling during 1960 when it was still an NWA affiliate).

[middleagedheadbanger]

According to the Gorgeous George Biography he was a flop in New York so definitely not a draw.

Andre did not wrestle full time for anybody even though he was managed by Vince Sr. He was a draw but Andre didn't draw anywhere for very long so he was on tour as an attraction.

I think Mil Mascaras was brought in as an attraction a few times so not so sure he was much more then that.

Buddy Rodgers was the champ for the early 60's so presumably a big draw then. Bruno had two runs as champ for most of the late 60's and 70's so he was the main draw for Vince Sr.

Pedro had the title for a few years and was also the first Triple Crown winner (World, IC, Tag) so he had a top place for the 70's and into the 80's

Stan Stasiak was NOT a main guy there. He had the title for a few days because Vince decided he had to change the title from Pedro to Bruno and Stan just happened to be wrestling Pedro that night. I read something years ago and Stan thought it was a joke when the agent said "then you pin Pedro and leave with the title."

Jimmy Snuka was a top guy and what I've read had a place secured until his girlfriend died. With nothing to suggest he didn't kill her I think Vince Jr's main concern became not having Snuka derail the national expansion.

Quite a few of these names I know had a hot angle for a few months (e.g. Graham as champ, Zbyszko feud with Bruno) but I'm not really familiar with anything else they did there so hard to say what there place was.

[Phosphor Glow]

Aug 2, 2021 12:10:54 GMT -5 Triangle Lancer said:

At the start, some guys you could point to: Dr. Jerry & Eddie Graham, hated bleached-blonde team known as the "Golden" Grahams.
Rocca would frequently team with Miguel Perez (Sr.) to face them, hugely popular duo.
The original Royal Kangaroos (Al Costello & Roy Heffernan) were another team fans wanted to get a piece of, using their boomerang as a weapon to steal wins.
The Basteins were another popular pair.
(Most main events were tag affairs then, usually for the US Tag Titles.)

As far as I'm aware of, there is only a couple of TV shows available from the mid-60s "if you know where to look" (*wink, wink). A young, freshly heel Cowboy Bill Watts is in that footage. (Watts was the first "Bruno protege" to turn on his mentor.)

Looking at your list, almost every one of those guys was a star of some sort.
Been reading the book on Hawaii by Ed Francis, and he puts over "Handsome" Johnny Barend as a huge star. He was another big name in the area in the 60s. Think Buff Bagwell in the top hat, but with a cigar and actual ability.

The Golden Grahams genuinely sounds like something that would show up in Southpaw or something similar. That rules.

[Mozenrath]

Aug 2, 2021 23:39:14 GMT -5 Phosphor Glow said:

Aug 2, 2021 12:10:54 GMT -5 Triangle Lancer said:

At the start, some guys you could point to: Dr. Jerry & Eddie Graham, hated bleached-blonde team known as the "Golden" Grahams.
Rocca would frequently team with Miguel Perez (Sr.) to face them, hugely popular duo.
The original Royal Kangaroos (Al Costello & Roy Heffernan) were another team fans wanted to get a piece of, using their boomerang as a weapon to steal wins.
The Basteins were another popular pair.
(Most main events were tag affairs then, usually for the US Tag Titles.)

As far as I'm aware of, there is only a couple of TV shows available from the mid-60s "if you know where to look" (*wink, wink). A young, freshly heel Cowboy Bill Watts is in that footage. (Watts was the first "Bruno protege" to turn on his mentor.)

Looking at your list, almost every one of those guys was a star of some sort.
Been reading the book on Hawaii by Ed Francis, and he puts over "Handsome" Johnny Barend as a huge star. He was another big name in the area in the 60s. Think Buff Bagwell in the top hat, but with a cigar and actual ability.

The Golden Grahams genuinely sounds like something that would show up in Southpaw or something similar. That rules.

Yeah, at this point, I think a lot of people don't really talk about the tag team, even if it was big, since most Eddie Graham stories focus on his promoting in Florida, as well that Dusty Rhodes was basically his protoge, and that Dusty kept trying to be a mentor in a similar fashion. Big Bubba Rogers/Big Bossman, Barry Windham, and Magnum TA all were people Dusty tried to develop, though Bossman left for the WWF because the money was going to be much better since he'd be working Hogan, Magnum TA got hurt obviously, and Barry Windham's Barry Windham and thus bailed on Dusty because the pressure was too much for him.

[Squirrel Master]

John Tolos and Chris Tolos
Tony Garea
Rick Martel
Adrian Adonis

[ToyfareMark]

There are plenty of old WWWF cards on Youtube. Honestly its not the best wrestling you'll ever see, but I admit I like to watch them sometimes just for the historical aspect of them. I'm a history buff, so I guess its easier for them to hold my interest than they would for others.

[Triangle Lancer]

Aug 3, 2021 8:18:06 GMT -5 ToyfareMark said:

There are plenty of old WWWF cards on Youtube. Honestly its not the best wrestling you'll ever see, but I admit I like to watch them sometimes just for the historical aspect of them. I'm a history buff, so I guess its easier for them to hold my interest than they would for others.

I like watching these because it pieces together characters and long-term stories; how they're built from the ground up.
Look at how a young Larry Zbyszko can go from cutting bland (and in some cases, bad) promos to being one of the best parts of the show. A time when SD Jones was protected to the point he didn't get pinned on TV.

And what constitutes a finish. It wasn't like in the 80s-90s where it had to be an established finishing move to end a match. Whatever the wrestler wanted to do. Mil Mascaras winning with a key lock submission stuck me as odd; then again, those ropes were really loose.

But I enjoy this stuff. What it was and knowing what it would become.

[Viking Hall]

Aug 3, 2021 8:18:06 GMT -5 ToyfareMark said:

There are plenty of old WWWF cards on Youtube. Honestly its not the best wrestling you'll ever see, but I admit I like to watch them sometimes just for the historical aspect of them. I'm a history buff, so I guess its easier for them to hold my interest than they would for others.

Any particular channels worth checking out?

Here in the UK we used to get a show called WWF Classics on Sky which mainly centred around early eighties shows, I used to enjoy them even though they were the total antithesis to what was cool at the time (Attitude Era). I remember the Wild Samoans seemed to feature most weeks, as well as Rocky Johnson, SD Jones, Iron Mike Sharpe.

[ToyfareMark]

Aug 3, 2021 11:41:31 GMT -5 Viking Hall said:

Aug 3, 2021 8:18:06 GMT -5 ToyfareMark said:

There are plenty of old WWWF cards on Youtube. Honestly its not the best wrestling you'll ever see, but I admit I like to watch them sometimes just for the historical aspect of them. I'm a history buff, so I guess its easier for them to hold my interest than they would for others.

Any particular channels worth checking out?

Here in the UK we used to get a show called WWF Classics on Sky which mainly centred around early eighties shows, I used to enjoy them even though they were the total antithesis to what was cool at the time (Attitude Era). I remember the Wild Samoans seemed to feature most weeks, as well as Rocky Johnson, SD Jones, Iron Mike Sharpe.

David Scherzer is a good channel, 4WrestlingFans is another good one. Usually through those I discover others.

[Manute Bol]

I loved reading all the replies in here. Lots of great information, and a lot of names I'm going to read up on. Thank you!

Aug 2, 2021 12:10:54 GMT -5 Triangle Lancer said:

The original Royal Kangaroos (Al Costello & Roy Heffernan) were another team fans wanted to get a piece of, using their boomerang as a weapon to steal wins.

I've always wondered about The Fabulous Kangaroos. I know they're a historically important tag team, but wasn't sure where they worked or how they fared in the New York territory.

Aug 2, 2021 13:08:26 GMT -5 Squirrel Master said:

Bruiser Brody
High Chief Peter Maivia
Rocky Johnson

Good call on Maivia, but I'm not sure on the other two.

As far as I can tell, Bruiser Brody only worked a few matches in the WWE in 1976. I believe Rocky Johnson worked for Vince Jr. Soul Patrol weren't a team until 1983.

Aug 2, 2021 19:54:30 GMT -5 dangerousdanpotato said:

OP, from your list I think Gorgeous George is a red herring, he was more of an NWA guy (appears to have worked Capitol Wrestling during 1960 when it was still an NWA affiliate).

I actually wasn't so sure about him when I included him on my list. I had no idea he was exclusively an NWA guy. Thanks for the info.

Aug 2, 2021 23:36:00 GMT -5 middleagedheadbanger said:

I think Mil Mascaras was brought in as an attraction a few times so not so sure he was much more then that.

Stan Stasiak was NOT a main guy there. He had the title for a few days because Vince decided he had to change the title from Pedro to Bruno and Stan just happened to be wrestling Pedro that night. I read something years ago and Stan thought it was a joke when the agent said "then you pin Pedro and leave with the title.".

Mascaras was definitely an attraction, but he had several stints with the WWE - 1972-73, 1977, and 1978. He was undefeated in the company and the Garden lifted a ban on masked wrestlers specifically for him.

Stasiak headlined a bunch of shows against Morales and also feuded with top guys like Monsoon and Strongbow. He had to have been a least a midcarder?

[ianriccaboni]

To another poster's point, the villains, specifically Stan Stasiak, never stayed too long. Could have just as easily have been Don Leo Jonathan or Moondog Mayne in that spot had the timing worked out much in the same way that Ivan Koloff and Masked Superstar were penciled in at different points to beat Backlund until they decided to go with Iron Sheik.

[Triangle Lancer]

Stasiak was one of those guys that seemingly came and went as he pleased, kinda like Greg Valentine and Waldo Von Erich would. Stan would do a couple of months, then head to Dallas or go home and wrestle Portland. (Yeah, a lot of heels only stayed a few months, but he was one of that handful that just kept coming back, every year or two, like clockwork.)

True, he didn't win all that often. But he was a big dude that looked dangerous, had the heart punch...and had bitchin' sideburns.
He had a loyalty to them, and gave him the title for a week. From that point on, Stan would be the gatekeeper for any babyface looking to be a star. You've beaten a former WWWF Champion, you're a huge deal.

I read that story you refer to, think it was in the Hebert/Laprade book on Montreal (one of 2 Quebecois to win the World title for the McMahons). I love that story. Especially the part where Stan is tying his boots, half paying attention then he just stops.
"You mean I win?"