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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2021 13:14:49 GMT -5
I like crazy gimmicks and wrestling to be over the top and I wish AEW wasnt so "wink and nod" about things. Abandon can just be a creepy dead girl, I don't need Tony and Big Show shitting on her gimmick saying she does her costume and make up to get the heads of her rivals. But AEW is grounded in reality, so it what it is. I'll get my crazy nonsense in Impact, Alexa, and wherever Bray ends up. Each company does it own thing and I just follow the guys and girls I like. In 2021 no company is 100% for me. You don't have to be a fan of just one company, or type of wrestler, Ultimate Warrior is both a piece of garbage and my favorite wrestler of all time. All my current favorites are spread out over like 6 different companies.
Just look at NXT before the last take over I enjoyed Index, Joe/Kross, Grimes/Knight. The rest of the grounded "good at wrestling stuff" does nothing for me. One of the main reasons I skip Dark and Dark 2.0, but I understand why people like it. So while I have been fans of Punk and Brian since ROH, I can still think Kenny Omega is overated, QT Marshall is lame, and Cody needs to get his head out of his ass. As for Cena I really have been enjoying him as a part timer. No opinion in wrestling is mutually exclusive. So like Brian Zane says "Like what you like, don't be a dick."
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 7, 2021 13:24:00 GMT -5
I’m glad Punk and Bryan are in a company they’re happy in and I’m sure they’ll have great matches, make the fans pop, but these are still the two guys that older male fans touted while they were insulting and ridiculing me for like Cena and the kid-friendly WWE product. And they’re also some of the same fans. So I’m having a hard time getting hyped over that stuff, because I keep thinking back to how bad I got it ten years ago or so, and I feel bitter and upset about it. This isn’t me trying to start any “this company vs. that company” thi BC, because I personally hate that. It’s more of a personal hangup I can’t shake. I know I should suck it up, because not everyone will like the same kind of wrestling I do, but I can’t. With AEW, having gotten so much “you drink the Vince Kool Aid grief before, I seriously feel unwelcome as a wrestling fan. Well, consider the venn diagrams, here. You have a circle of Toxic Gatekeeping Fans. And there's another circle of Punk/Bryan Fans. There's definitely overlap there. But there's also overlap between the Toxic Gatekeeping fans and WWE defenders. You just wouldn't get targeted by them, because you happened to not say anything that would set them off. And the toxic gatekeeping fans don't define the Punk/Bryan fans, and they definitely don't define AEW's office. Hell, think about who also debuted for AEW around the same time as those two: LULU PENCIL. Lulu is the epitome of what these kinds of asshole fans would hate, and look at her, getting a paycheck from AEW.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2021 13:45:58 GMT -5
This board is a really safe space, with a lot great posters, but I don't agree with everyone. AEW board can slightly protective of AEW because this is the show they have been waiting for 20 years, I wish I shared their enthusiasm. The WWE board has been a bit cynical for the past 10 years or so. But at the same time nobody is going to personally attack you over your favorites.
I think Kross is badass (I've been having a hard time with his booking as of late) but he's a board meme at this point, a lot of people like Priest, but I think the guy is a CAW somebody spent 20 hours on in a Efed. I dont take the boards dislike for Kross personally, I understand his flaws and even helped with a few of those memes, but nobody said hey uppitynerd you suck and your opinion doesn't matter because you enjoy Kross's weird ass faces. This isn't reddit, twitter, or YouTube comment section. We normally can have a decent dialog, thats the whole point of this community and message board like this.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 7, 2021 14:09:06 GMT -5
This stuff was going on when I joined this forum a decade ago. At what point does it become acceptable to just tell someone to get over it? I don't want to invalidate your feelings, but the fact that there have been dozens of threads on this exact topic is just not healthy, especially now when there's almost zero prompting and Cena is essentially out the door. Vast swathes of the wrestling fandom grew up with Cena at this stage, people who virulently hate the guy are a minority of a minority. I like Cena. Most of us like Cena. Even if you don't like Cena as a wrestler most people don't have anything against the person. I…honestly don’t know. Part of me still feels a bit burnt. Sorry, man. I’m not trying to even crap on AEW. Just trying to describe how I feel.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2021 14:14:40 GMT -5
This stuff was going on when I joined this forum a decade ago. At what point does it become acceptable to just tell someone to get over it? I don't want to invalidate your feelings, but the fact that there have been dozens of threads on this exact topic is just not healthy, especially now when there's almost zero prompting and Cena is essentially out the door. Vast swathes of the wrestling fandom grew up with Cena at this stage, people who virulently hate the guy are a minority of a minority. I like Cena. Most of us like Cena. Even if you don't like Cena as a wrestler most people don't have anything against the person. I…honestly don’t know. Part of me still feels a bit burnt. Sorry, man. I’m not trying to even crap on AEW. Just trying to describe how I feel. Burnt by what? That a bunch of anonymous posters disagree with your love for a wrestler ? Or is it that a subset of the fanbase was overly critical of a wrestler you liked?
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 7, 2021 14:17:46 GMT -5
A lot of folks have expressed the same sentiment I feel so just to add my own wrinkles
Many of my favourite WWE moments would not be possible without Cena, and that includes all the facets of his character and booking I hated at the time but warmed to from 2008 onwards.
Summer of Punk II simply would not have worked if he did not have Cena to bounce off. Him being everything that he is, good or bad, is what made that angle electric and if you had someone a fraction less talented or over (and being a mercilessly booed top face still qualifies as I over if people still buy tickets to see you). Cena is great.
And frankly, Cena showing up in AEW to have a mega heel run, doing some combination of the NWO and anti-hardcore Mick Foley, would be genuinely extraordinary. I know you want to root for him as a face, but just... cheer for him anyway, you already did.
Wherever those diehard anti-Cena pricks are almost none of them are on this forum.
Even the people who hate him on this forum mainly have nothing against him as a person.
Even people who don't like his work can usually highlight talents he has they respect.
And many people, like me, who over a decade ago would have mocked you for being a Cena fan (literally I was still a teenager then, trolling boy band forums when I wasn't on here), are now nearly as big fans of him as you are.
The people you have beef with have changed or left and the rest of them aren't here and never were.
Like. You won, man. Cena got one of the biggest pops WWE has had in years when he came back. Nobody is starting these conversations any more.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Sept 7, 2021 14:18:18 GMT -5
It does suck that wrestling fans can make other wrestling fans unwelcome.
Like I was one of those fans who adored Punk and despised Cena. But you didn’t deserve then or now to be shit on if you’re a Cena fan. I’ll disagree with you, we can debate and argue about it. But I would never think you were dumb for it.
And in this board I never seen anyone being bullied. But it must seem that way if you feel like you’re being dogpiled. The one thing is I would try not to take criticism of your opinion seriously. The only thing I don’t like from people is that they defensive off someone disagrees with them. It goes both ways, and I’ll admit because as Uppitynerd has said, this board can be protective of AEW, and I can be in that category. But that doesn’t mean no one can be critical of it. But some people need to understand that if you state an unpopular opinion, you need to be aware that most people will probably disagree and are prepared to counter point it. That’s basically what a public forum is.
Of course, it’s incredibly shitty if you are being bullied or called out for personal things, because that is bad. But I think everyone should know that everyone has a right to debate. And we all should try not to take anything anyone does in this forum personally.
Unless they are legit being assholes and they go can f*** themselves. Lol
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
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Post by spagett on Sept 7, 2021 14:27:17 GMT -5
I don't understand why you feel the need to make some version of this thread over and over and over.
I'm really trying to not be mean or anything but it makes no sense to me.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 7, 2021 14:30:09 GMT -5
I…honestly don’t know. Part of me still feels a bit burnt. Sorry, man. I’m not trying to even crap on AEW. Just trying to describe how I feel. Burnt by what? That a bunch of anonymous posters disagree with your love for a wrestler ? Or is it that a subset of the fanbase was overly critical of a wrestler you liked? It was mostly a bunch of the ridicule I got. Not from every single person, here it was mostly just trolls. Other parts online were worse for me. Another reason I developed the chip on my shoulder about this was probably because I was going through some personal issues IRL, and a lot of the goofy stuff WWE was putting out, the same stuff that apparently drove off so many lapsed fans (a lot of them coming back to AEW), those shows were an escape for me through some tough times. I wouldn’t hold those guest hosts or Cena jokes or DX ‘06 material up as the pinnacle of wrestling, but for me it was just harmless fun.(And I say that as someone who can appreciate a more serious product.)
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 7, 2021 14:37:29 GMT -5
A lot of folks have expressed the same sentiment I feel so just to add my own wrinkles Many of my favourite WWE moments would not be possible without Cena, and that includes all the facets of his character and booking I hated at the time but warmed to from 2008 onwards. Summer of Punk II simply would not have worked if he did not have Cena to bounce off. Him being everything that he is, good or bad, is what made that angle electric and if you had someone a fraction less talented or over (and being a mercilessly booed top face still qualifies as I over if people still buy tickets to see you). Cena is great. And frankly, Cena showing up in AEW to have a mega heel run, doing some combination of the NWO and anti-hardcore Mick Foley, would be genuinely extraordinary. I know you want to root for him as a face, but just... cheer for him anyway, you already did. Wherever those diehard anti-Cena pricks are almost none of them are on this forum. Even the people who hate him on this forum mainly have nothing against him as a person. Even people who don't like his work can usually highlight talents he has they respect. And many people, like me, who over a decade ago would have mocked you for being a Cena fan (literally I was still a teenager then, trolling boy band forums when I wasn't on here), are now nearly as big fans of him as you are. The people you have beef with have changed or left and the rest of them aren't here and never were. Like. You won, man. Cena got one of the biggest pops WWE has had in years when he came back. Nobody is starting these conversations any more. Trust me my friend- the only thing I “won” was more paranoia about expressing myself. The only way I could have gotten “The W” is if I had gotten to mark out for that silly and more juvenile wrestling without any older male fans taking any issue, or looking at me like I was a misfit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2021 14:42:33 GMT -5
A lot of folks have expressed the same sentiment I feel so just to add my own wrinkles Many of my favourite WWE moments would not be possible without Cena, and that includes all the facets of his character and booking I hated at the time but warmed to from 2008 onwards. Summer of Punk II simply would not have worked if he did not have Cena to bounce off. Him being everything that he is, good or bad, is what made that angle electric and if you had someone a fraction less talented or over (and being a mercilessly booed top face still qualifies as I over if people still buy tickets to see you). Cena is great. And frankly, Cena showing up in AEW to have a mega heel run, doing some combination of the NWO and anti-hardcore Mick Foley, would be genuinely extraordinary. I know you want to root for him as a face, but just... cheer for him anyway, you already did. Wherever those diehard anti-Cena pricks are almost none of them are on this forum. Even the people who hate him on this forum mainly have nothing against him as a person. Even people who don't like his work can usually highlight talents he has they respect. And many people, like me, who over a decade ago would have mocked you for being a Cena fan (literally I was still a teenager then, trolling boy band forums when I wasn't on here), are now nearly as big fans of him as you are. The people you have beef with have changed or left and the rest of them aren't here and never were. Like. You won, man. Cena got one of the biggest pops WWE has had in years when he came back. Nobody is starting these conversations any more. Trust me my friend- the only thing I “won” was more paranoia about expressing myself. The only way I could have gotten “The W” is if I had gotten to mark out for that silly and more juvenile wrestling without any older male fans taking any issue, or looking at me like I was a misfit. Come hang out in the Impact Thread theres like four of us. We know the show is wacky and dumb at times, but thats what we love about it. We would love to have you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2021 14:52:05 GMT -5
A lot of folks have expressed the same sentiment I feel so just to add my own wrinkles Many of my favourite WWE moments would not be possible without Cena, and that includes all the facets of his character and booking I hated at the time but warmed to from 2008 onwards. Summer of Punk II simply would not have worked if he did not have Cena to bounce off. Him being everything that he is, good or bad, is what made that angle electric and if you had someone a fraction less talented or over (and being a mercilessly booed top face still qualifies as I over if people still buy tickets to see you). Cena is great. And frankly, Cena showing up in AEW to have a mega heel run, doing some combination of the NWO and anti-hardcore Mick Foley, would be genuinely extraordinary. I know you want to root for him as a face, but just... cheer for him anyway, you already did. Wherever those diehard anti-Cena pricks are almost none of them are on this forum. Even the people who hate him on this forum mainly have nothing against him as a person. Even people who don't like his work can usually highlight talents he has they respect. And many people, like me, who over a decade ago would have mocked you for being a Cena fan (literally I was still a teenager then, trolling boy band forums when I wasn't on here), are now nearly as big fans of him as you are. The people you have beef with have changed or left and the rest of them aren't here and never were. Like. You won, man. Cena got one of the biggest pops WWE has had in years when he came back. Nobody is starting these conversations any more. Trust me my friend- the only thing I “won” was more paranoia about expressing myself. The only way I could have gotten “The W” is if I had gotten to mark out for that silly and more juvenile wrestling without any older male fans taking any issue, or looking at me like I was a misfit. No offense intended, but you should seek therapy. If the opinions of strangers bugs you out this much, you’ve got work to do to get yourself right. Again, not an insult - I’m in therapy for other reasons.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 7, 2021 15:01:29 GMT -5
I think to a lot of people AEW and The Elite are, fairly or unfairly, the personification of the worst of of IWC during the mid 2000s and through mid 2010s. I'll be honest for a long time I would not give ROH a shot because of the ROHBots back in the day because I wasn't as big of a fan of the people Gabe was pushing after Punk left. I'm not saying this is specifically the case for you Clash, but more to say I think that is the biggest trend I see out there. But I think most of the shows are people just getting lost in the acts. I think if you have criticisms most AEW fans are cool to talk about them as long as you aren't baiting people (which seems to be the biggest issues in disagreements here) Long story short, I've had a bitterness to non WWE promotions before so I get where you're coming from. To tell the truth, I think Elite is great. Loved them in New Japan. I appreciate how AEW emphasizes wins and losses, and uses enhancement talent and stables. Omega and the Bucks, Cody, Hangman, they’re killing it, as are many people in the company. I’m not rooting for All Elite to fail, I want all wrestling to grow. And keep in mind, I get on WWE’s case constantly about how ass their championship booking has been for years. But some of the fans position themselves as “we’re the anti-WWE revolution” and they have this “we’re going to vanquish Vince’s wicked company, I don’t get how you can enjoy that other wrestling” vibe. It just reminds me of toxic fan arguments I’ve had in the past. Basically, I just want to enjoy whatever I want and get no strange looks/remarks for it.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 7, 2021 15:05:05 GMT -5
Its weird to feel bitter with AEW over it, sure they have mature content but they also have the for the kids gimmicks and segments.
Like AEW wouldn't pay for Cena if they had the chance.I'm not blaming your feeling,just feel like the bitterness is misdirected.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Sept 7, 2021 15:09:37 GMT -5
I think to a lot of people AEW and The Elite are, fairly or unfairly, the personification of the worst of of IWC during the mid 2000s and through mid 2010s. I'll be honest for a long time I would not give ROH a shot because of the ROHBots back in the day because I wasn't as big of a fan of the people Gabe was pushing after Punk left. I'm not saying this is specifically the case for you Clash, but more to say I think that is the biggest trend I see out there. But I think most of the shows are people just getting lost in the acts. I think if you have criticisms most AEW fans are cool to talk about them as long as you aren't baiting people (which seems to be the biggest issues in disagreements here) Long story short, I've had a bitterness to non WWE promotions before so I get where you're coming from. To tell the truth, I think Elite is great. Loved them in New Japan. I appreciate how AEW emphasizes wins and losses, and uses enhancement talent and stables. Omega and the Bucks, Cody, Hangman, they’re killing it, as are many people in the company. I’m not rooting for All Elite to fail, I want all wrestling to grow. And keep in mind, I get on WWE’s case constantly about how ass their championship booking has been for years. But some of the fans position themselves as “we’re the anti-WWE revolution” and they have this “we’re going to vanquish Vince’s wicked company, I don’t get how you can enjoy that other wrestling” vibe. It just reminds me of toxic fan arguments I’ve had in the past. Basically, I just want to enjoy whatever I want and get no strange looks/remarks for it. Are you having conversations of this nature on here? This board gets protective about AEW for sure but I don't know that I've seen that sentiment shared here. If it's happening elsewhere, I'm sorry for that and it's not indicative of wrestling at large. People can like what they want to like.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 7, 2021 15:21:42 GMT -5
I was critical of Cena at times, but I was a fan of his. I liked him at a time when it was really uncool for anyone over the age of 13 to call themselves a fan of his. I also generally like him as an actor and a person.
I also love AEW, Punk, and Danielson. I'd also be really curious to see what Cena could do in AEW if the two ever crossed paths. I don't get why you'd be bitter about AEW because of anti-Cena fans when more than enough of them are still WWE fans. I also see more anti-WWE sentiment from WWE fans on the WWE board than on this one.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 7, 2021 15:25:14 GMT -5
I think to a lot of people AEW and The Elite are, fairly or unfairly, the personification of the worst of of IWC during the mid 2000s and through mid 2010s. I'll be honest for a long time I would not give ROH a shot because of the ROHBots back in the day because I wasn't as big of a fan of the people Gabe was pushing after Punk left. I'm not saying this is specifically the case for you Clash, but more to say I think that is the biggest trend I see out there. But I think most of the shows are people just getting lost in the acts. I think if you have criticisms most AEW fans are cool to talk about them as long as you aren't baiting people (which seems to be the biggest issues in disagreements here) Long story short, I've had a bitterness to non WWE promotions before so I get where you're coming from. To tell the truth, I think Elite is great. Loved them in New Japan. I appreciate how AEW emphasizes wins and losses, and uses enhancement talent and stables. Omega and the Bucks, Cody, Hangman, they’re killing it, as are many people in the company. I’m not rooting for All Elite to fail, I want all wrestling to grow. And keep in mind, I get on WWE’s case constantly about how ass their championship booking has been for years. But some of the fans position themselves as “we’re the anti-WWE revolution” and they have this “we’re going to vanquish Vince’s wicked company, I don’t get how you can enjoy that other wrestling” vibe. It just reminds me of toxic fan arguments I’ve had in the past. Basically, I just want to enjoy whatever I want and get no strange looks/remarks for it. I dont really see the anti WWE revolution. Sure there's laughing at dumb stuff WWE does or how acts catch on in AEW that struggled in WWE but aside from that? Not really much negativity. Enjoy what you want my dude. I think anymore most of the ragging for Fandom anymore is tongue and cheek
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2021 15:44:39 GMT -5
Us vs. them is stupid. Hell, I want WWE to succeed so I have to choose who gets my attention, because that means everything is great.
Cena did what Cena was booked and paid to do. When he got a bit more freedom to do what he wanted, he turned into "Big Match John". Hell, even Cena's worst calls (the Nexus debacle) weren't his fault per se, as Vince is the one who stamps everything with his seal of approval when all is said and done. John Cena the person seems like a good guy, if a bit of a workaholic who could stand to chill out a bit.
I remember the dark days you were talking about, because I've been here since 05 (lost my old account). I think it's much better here than it has been in a while, so c'mon in, the water's fine.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Sept 7, 2021 16:18:19 GMT -5
I sort of understand the starting point of being grumpy at what older fans said, because as a small child I experienced much the same with some Doctor Who fans. (Although it didn't spoil my love of the show overall, even as sections of fandom today continue to be toxic as hell, because I've met so many genuinely lovely people through that show and the arseholes ain't gonna steal that.)
That's how I look at most pop culture things folk enjoy. Don't let the arsehole fans ruin things you want to enjoy. (After all, you enjoying it is causing them annoyance anyway!)
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Sept 7, 2021 16:20:01 GMT -5
Us vs. them is stupid. Hell, I want WWE to succeed so I have to choose who gets my attention, because that means everything is great. I want AEW to succeed because they are doing good stuff. I want WWE to succeed because I have an addiction to Royal Rumble matches, and AEW have none. Just the Casino thing which has structural flaws. (Oh, and I'm genuinely a belt mark, and want wrestlers I like to win the big titles in wrestling, of which the WWE have 3.)
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