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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2021 12:08:33 GMT -5
I mean I don't think defending Marty is a good path either, but no, I mean the question of why, if it was sexual assault, there weren't charges. Sexual assaults go unreported regularly, and in this case, we're talking about an accusation from five years prior. The lack of charges does not mean anything for whether it was or was not a sexual assault and its the equivalent of looking at Al Capone and asking "But if he's a criminal then why isn't he in jail yet?" It's a naive outlook that ignores a lot of the ugly reality of sexual assault and how many cases that definitely happened never result in anything being done. But what did Marty do wrong? Guys buy girls drinks all the time at bars in hopes they’ll go home with them. Im sure he had several that night too. Its called hooking up. And as unseemly as it may be, sleeping with a 16 yr old is not illegal in the UK. To Americanize this, when I walk into a bar and see a smokeshow with her girlfriends having a drink, I automatically assume she is 21. If I hit on her and she’s down, we’re getting out of there and Im not asking for ID in the bedroom. If I find out later she is 18 and had a fake ID I feel a certain way about it, but it doesn’t make me a monster Her 5 years later saying it wasn’t consensual is her side of the story. There is always three. You and I know that no formal charges were brought against Marty because what, that can be proven, did he really do wrong? He furnished alcohol to her? Thats on the bar owner and bartender for letting that happen. Im just not gonna ever understand the problem with Marty here. I do however understand your points about sexual assault, I just don’t think they apply to Scurll I try not to have a dog in these types of debates because it is extremely grey and people tend to look at it as black and white when it isn't. In the end, we really don't know all the information and cannot truly make an informed decision so it all comes down to whether you believe what you hear (which almost certainly isn't the whole story) and what you take away from it. I really dislike the court of public opinion being allowed to ruin someone's life without truly knowing all the information and will even liken it to the old witch trials where simply accusing someone can change their life dramatically. Saying you dislike him on a forum? Absolutely fine. Going after him and deciding that you should be the justice in the world by ruining his life? That's where it crosses a line for me. All that having been said, if all his closest friends appear to have disowned him, there is probably a reason for that. They know more than we do so even if I don't know everything, I'm willing to trust people closer to him who do have more information. The fact that he's basically been given the same treatment as Joey Ryan speaks volumes to me.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Sept 29, 2021 12:08:46 GMT -5
I mean I don't think defending Marty is a good path either, but no, I mean the question of why, if it was sexual assault, there weren't charges. Sexual assaults go unreported regularly, and in this case, we're talking about an accusation from five years prior. The lack of charges does not mean anything for whether it was or was not a sexual assault and its the equivalent of looking at Al Capone and asking "But if he's a criminal then why isn't he in jail yet?" It's a naive outlook that ignores a lot of the ugly reality of sexual assault and how many cases that definitely happened never result in anything being done. But what did Marty do wrong? Guys buy girls drinks all the time at bars in hopes they’ll go home with them. Im sure he had several that night too. Its called hooking up. And as unseemly as it may be, sleeping with a 16 yr old is not illegal in the UK. To Americanize this, when I walk into a bar and see a smokeshow with her girlfriends having a drink, I automatically assume she is 21. If I hit on her and she’s down, we’re getting out of there and Im not asking for ID in the bedroom. If I find out later she is 18 and had a fake ID I feel a certain way about it, but it doesn’t make me a monster Her 5 years later saying it wasn’t consensual is her side of the story. There is always three. You and I know that no formal charges were brought against Marty because what, that can be proven, did he really do wrong? He furnished alcohol to her? Thats on the bar owner and bartender for letting that happen. Im just not gonna ever understand the problem with Marty here. I do however understand your points about sexual assault, I just don’t think they apply to Scurll Because she wasn't legal to be drinking, this happened in his hotel room, and he had a position of authority over her. THis isn't just innocently him hitting on someone at a bar.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Sept 29, 2021 12:31:13 GMT -5
Because sexual assault is bad?
I think people are so focused on the age of the person in question because this is a mostly American board and this happened in the UK where age of consent works differently. But what's most important he took advantage of someone who wasn't in a position to consent. That's sexual assault regardless of the ages of the perpetrator and the victim. That she wasn't of age to legally drink makes it even worse.
If it was sexual assault why didn’t he get charged? You should really read up more on sexual assault, consent, and why survivors are hesitant to step forward and press charges.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 29, 2021 12:59:16 GMT -5
In the span of under a couple of weeks, we've seen apologism for Nazi symbols and now sexual assault. Just because they're connected to guys who can fake fight good.
Whew.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Sept 29, 2021 13:26:09 GMT -5
In the span of under a couple of weeks, we've seen apologism for Nazi symbols and now sexual assault. Just because they're connected to guys who can fake fight good. Whew. On here I mentioned a former big time wrestler who did a no call, no show for a booking that included a flight across state lines. When the promoter finally reached the wrestler, the wrestler’s excuse was they put on the wrong pants. Someone on here bent over backwards to defend the wrestler. If you ever have to travel for work or just have an important day coming up, pull a no call, no show. When your boss calls you up, tell them you did it because you put on the wrong pants. See how that turns out. When it comes to wrestlers, it’s astounding the mental gymnastics some fans will perform to defend them.
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Post by Heeltown, USA on Sept 29, 2021 13:37:16 GMT -5
In the span of under a couple of weeks, we've seen apologism for Nazi symbols and now sexual assault. Just because they're connected to guys who can fake fight good. Whew. Wherever you stand on the topic at hand, this is funny
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Sept 29, 2021 13:56:42 GMT -5
Honestly there also comes a point where I just. Give absolutely no shits about what the age of consent is and what is technically allowed in some place, and see a man in his late twenties bringing a drunk minor to his hotel room as f***ing vile, regardless of legality. It's predatory.
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Woo
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Post by Woo on Sept 29, 2021 14:06:30 GMT -5
Had Marty picked up the girl in a bar and he had thought she was over 18 and then bought her drinks and she's agreed to go back to his hotel room and have sex then that's fine.
If he had met her and knew she was 16 and she consented to sex then that too is fine.
The fact he knew she was 16 and still gave her alcohol and got her drunk is the problem as a 16 year old should not be drinking. It makes it harder for her to give consent when she's been supplied with alcohol.
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Post by noobeast on Sept 29, 2021 14:40:17 GMT -5
When it comes to wrestlers, it’s astounding the mental gymnastics some fans will perform to defend them. Wrestlers and wrestling personalities in general have a lot of this. I don't get it.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Sept 29, 2021 14:52:21 GMT -5
Of course people are waiting to welcome this guy back with open arms.
I’m not comparing their actions but people STILL defend Benoit because he was good at simulated sports. I’m not shocked people want Grooming Enterprises back in the business
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Sept 29, 2021 16:13:30 GMT -5
When it comes to wrestlers, it’s astounding the mental gymnastics some fans will perform to defend them. Wrestlers and wrestling personalities in general have a lot of this. I don't get it. You get in entertainment and sports too, if you have talent, there are many people who will let you get away with pretty much anything as long as you're entertaining.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 29, 2021 16:17:38 GMT -5
Even if I assume it wasnt sexual assault,that doesnt make it any less f***ed up for me tho.Even if the age is legal ,he still slept with someone he teached.
There is a lot of "yeh,but" theres for something so predatory.
As I said before,I think he was redeemable compared to Ryan, but he had to somehow redeem himself and it wouldnt be for years until he would be welcome,which he did not.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 29, 2021 16:56:41 GMT -5
Had Marty picked up the girl in a bar and he had thought she was over 18 and then bought her drinks and she's agreed to go back to his hotel room and have sex then that's fine. If he had met her and knew she was 16 and she consented to sex then that too is fine. The fact he knew she was 16 and still gave her alcohol and got her drunk is the problem as a 16 year old should not be drinking. It makes it harder for her to give consent when she's been supplied with alcohol. Yeah, my understanding is that they had both been drinking separately before their friend groups converged on the same bar, so both were already inebriated; and yes, lots of drunk people hook up at bars, ill advised as that often is. But if Marty knew she was under 18 and bought her more booze, regardless, with the intention of sleeping with her? No bueno. Again, I still take some issue with characterizing them as having some kind of established student/teacher relationship, and "Marty got her drunk" doesn't appear to have been the case, either; but if you know the girl is too young to be in the bar, I don't much care how drunk you are, you still have to be the adult in that situation. This, though, is definitely a point that's sticking with me, combined with the earlier posts we had in here from some people who've been around the BritWres scene long enough to know stories from when Scurll was coming up. Obviously can't pretend I know anything, but seeing that his buddies aren't even commenting on him and hearing how there were apparently scuttlebutts of him being involved in seedy stuff before this story, I can't help but wonder if there's really more to Scurll's baggage than just this one story.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Sept 29, 2021 17:42:43 GMT -5
I’m so gonna regret engaging this thread, but why does it seem it’s always assumed that if 2 drunk people have sex it’s the woman who’s being wronged? If a dude’s drunk he legally can’t consent either, but you almost NEVER see that brought up.
This isn’t to excuse Marty, I’m not referring specifically to this, but as someone who has woken up drunk to being sexually assaulted by a drunk woman (more then once actually) it always bothers me that if 2 drunk people f*** it’s the dude assumed to be taking advantage of the woman.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 29, 2021 18:31:33 GMT -5
I’m so gonna regret engaging this thread, but why does it seem it’s always assumed that if 2 drunk people have sex it’s the woman who’s being wronged? If a dude’s drunk he legally can’t consent either, but you almost NEVER see that brought up. This isn’t to excuse Marty, I’m not referring specifically to this, but as someone who has woken up drunk to being sexually assaulted by a drunk woman (more then once actually) it always bothers me that if 2 drunk people f*** it’s the dude assumed to be taking advantage of the woman. I agree with this point but being she was younger and her student, the blame falls on him here. It seemed in this case both were drunk but sober enough to know what happened.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Sept 29, 2021 18:35:12 GMT -5
I’m so gonna regret engaging this thread, but why does it seem it’s always assumed that if 2 drunk people have sex it’s the woman who’s being wronged? If a dude’s drunk he legally can’t consent either, but you almost NEVER see that brought up. This isn’t to excuse Marty, I’m not referring specifically to this, but as someone who has woken up drunk to being sexually assaulted by a drunk woman (more then once actually) it always bothers me that if 2 drunk people f*** it’s the dude assumed to be taking advantage of the woman. I agree with this point but being she was younger and her student, the blame falls on him here. He f***ed up. Absolutely. it’s just a thought I had reading the thread. It’s always assumed the dude was in the wrong, and obviously in this case he was, but it is something I felt the need to bring up in a general sense. If 2 people are shitfaced, neither is capable of giving consent yet you almost never hear people question the female in the situation.
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67 more
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Post by 67 more on Sept 30, 2021 1:01:41 GMT -5
In the span of under a couple of weeks, we've seen apologism for Nazi symbols and now sexual assault. Just because they're connected to guys who can fake fight good. Whew. I missed the Nazi apologism, what was this?
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Sept 30, 2021 1:09:15 GMT -5
In the span of under a couple of weeks, we've seen apologism for Nazi symbols and now sexual assault. Just because they're connected to guys who can fake fight good. Whew. I missed the Nazi apologism, what was this? Thread on the Undertaker over in WWE.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 30, 2021 1:11:24 GMT -5
Wrestlers and wrestling personalities in general have a lot of this. I don't get it. You get in entertainment and sports too, if you have talent, there are many people who will let you get away with pretty much anything as long as you're entertaining. Chris Brown springs to mind, as do Conor McGregor, among others.
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Woo
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Post by Woo on Sept 30, 2021 3:29:07 GMT -5
You get in entertainment and sports too, if you have talent, there are many people who will let you get away with pretty much anything as long as you're entertaining. Chris Brown springs to mind, as do Conor McGregor, among others. R Kelly obviously too.
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