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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Nov 3, 2021 13:17:13 GMT -5
There's been a lot of talk in the last year or so about how strong is too strong for the booking of a heel champion with the rise of Kenny Omega and Roman Reigns being the top guys in the two top companies, so this begs the question: Who is the strongest book Heel Champion ever? Let's look at some candidates:
Triple H: Infamous for his reign of terror in which he was champion 5 times from September 2002-April 2005 going over nearly every talent on the roster during these reigns.
Harley Race: NWA World Champion 5 times from February 1977-April 1981, with no span lasting longer than 8 days between title reigns.
Ric Flair: NWA World Champion 8 times from November 1983- September 1991, most reigns lasting a year or longer.
Hollywood Hogan: WCW Champion 4 times between August 1996-March 1999, ran roughshod with his NwO faction the vast majority of this time
Jeff Jarrett: NWA World Champion 5 times between October 2003-October 2006, half of his title losses were not clean and almost all losses were quickly avenged.
Nigel McGuinness: ROH World Champion from October 2007-April 2009, successfully defended the title against virtually every contender in ROH on multiple occasions in spite of numerous injuries, nearly all title victories were clean
Nick Aldis: NWA World Champion 2 times from December 2017-October 2021, second reign is the 6th longest in the title's history, almost all title victories were clean.
Roman Reigns: WWE Universal Champion from August 2020-Present, nearly every broadcast has ended with him standing tall since his title reign started. Nearly all title victories have been clean, defeated equivalent WWE champion, has not lost a match since December of 2019
Kenny Omega: AEW World Champion from December 2020-Present, won and simultaneously defended championships in two other companies. Suffered only one pinfall loss in almost 2 years.
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Post by CeilingFan on Nov 3, 2021 13:19:36 GMT -5
Superstar Billy Graham, April 1977-February 1978.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Nov 3, 2021 13:25:31 GMT -5
Bockwinkle in AWA?
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Nov 3, 2021 13:26:13 GMT -5
Big Van Vader. He pinned Sting clean, thus could beat anybody on the roster without having to rely on cheater tactics.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Nov 3, 2021 13:26:21 GMT -5
Shit that totally slipped my mind.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Nov 3, 2021 15:05:30 GMT -5
Lesnar? The majority of those options had tons of help during their heel reigns (Roman/Usos, Hogan/NWO, HHH/Evolution, Omega/Elite) but Lesnar won clean 95% of the time.
Took the title from The Rock sandwiched between a year when Rock had Wrestlemania victories over Hogan and Austin. Crushed Undertaker in hell in a cell. Ended the streak years later. Made babyface Triple H tap out. Squashed John Cena like he was nothing. Beat Randy Orton to a bloody pulp. Made short work of Samoa Joe and Braun Strowman when they were at their most badass in terms of booking. Beat AJ Styles and Daniel Bryan in consecutive Survivor Series champion v champion main events. Took less than 30 seconds to win the WWE title from Kofi Kingston who had beaten all comers for 6 months. And in almost 40 years he's the only heel to ever cleanly win a Wrestlemania main event when he beat Roman Reigns in 2018.
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kidkamikaze10
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Nov 3, 2021 15:09:50 GMT -5
Lesnar is definitely on the list.
I'd also say Nigel's self destructive reign and Bockwinkle are underrated here. Nigel was borderline unstoppable DESPITE being hurt to all hell, both kayfabe and in real life.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 3, 2021 15:31:58 GMT -5
Yeah I don't see how Brock isn't an option. Honestly I think he's the answer factoring in all the people he beat and the fact that he beat them clean as well. Reigns and 02-03 era Triple H would be next. Guys like Flair and Race were champion a lot and had long reigns but were never dominant. They had a lot of time limit draws and in Flair's case were lucky a lot. I guess Race might've been too but his peak run was before my time so I'm not sure.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 3, 2021 15:44:09 GMT -5
Maybe it was more because I was a kid, but Yokozuna from KOTR '93 to Wrestlemania X seemed unbeatable. Luger celebrating a countout win against him helped.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Nov 3, 2021 16:16:51 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with everyone on that list, but Guys like Ric Flair and Hollywood Hogan were often portrayed as chickenshit heels only capable of winning over their opponents via cheating and would beg off when the face was getting the better of them. I know Triple H probably had his chair of screwy victories, but he always had to portray himself as an ass kicker and avoid looking foolish. Maybe it was more because I was a kid, but Yokozuna from KOTR '93 to Wrestlemania X seemed unbeatable. Luger celebrating a countout win against him helped. YES! As a kid I hated Yoko because I thought he would be champion FOREVER because he was just too big to be beatean
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Nov 3, 2021 17:45:54 GMT -5
Roman. HHH was dominant, but it was nearly all due to cheating or close calls. Roman has been very dominant without really looking vulnerable.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Nov 3, 2021 18:28:21 GMT -5
I gotta go with MarkyD The only real victims of Triple H's reign were RVD, Booker T, and Kane... Jarrett's by contrast pretty much ruined the careers of half a dozen different wrestlers.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 3, 2021 18:31:42 GMT -5
Roman. HHH was dominant, but it was nearly all due to cheating or close calls. Roman has been very dominant without really looking vulnerable. Ehh I wouldn't say that When Roman has won clean it has been in dominant fashion like at Mania but a good portion of his matches are 50/50 with him cheating to win
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Nov 3, 2021 19:23:23 GMT -5
I'm going to try work out how often a few of them won clean/screwy during their most dominant runs. PPV World title matches only. Hollywood Hogan August 1996-April 1999 (NWO heel run): {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Hog Wild 1996 - Win via Nash/Hall help and belt shot. Halloween Havoc 1996 - Win via NWO heel turn (Giant). Souled Out 1997 - Bunch of NWO interference leads to non-finish. Superbrawl 1997 - Win via NWO heel turn (Savage). Road Wild 1997 - Win via NWO help. Starrcade 1997 - I think we all know this one. Superbrawl 1998 - Not as remembered as Starrcade but even in the rematch Sting gets a screwy win as Savage costs Hogan the match. Superbrawl 1999 - Win via David Flair heel turn. Uncensored 1999 - Loses a first blood match despite Flair bleeding first. Somehow pins become legal and Arn Anderson comes out and gives Flair a tire iron he uses to knock Hogan out. Not clean to say the least. Spring Stampede 1999 - Carried out injured midway through 4-way main event.
10 matches. 5 wins (0 clean). 4 losses (0 clean) 1 no-contest.
Literally every match was screwy. Well not the last one so much but he ended up not even being involved in the finish of the match at all. And honestly, I knew he didn't work every PPV but I still thought he had more than 5 PPV world title match wins during his Hollywood run. His 2 most famous title match jobs during that time (Goldberg, Luger) were on TV. Both of those also had a bunch of run-ins and distractions. He also lost a non-title to Piper at Starrcade which to this day I've never understood why the title wasn't on the line for the biggest show of the year. Triple H Sep 2002-June 2005 (the reign of terror): {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Unforgiven 2002 - Ric Flair turns heel, hits RVD with sledgehammer. Not clean. No Mercy 2002 - Kane has match won, Flair pulls the ref out to stop count, Kane goes after Flair, HHH uses distraction to hit Pedigree. Not Clean. Survivor Series 2002 - Loses title in chamber. Armageddon 2002 - Clean win. About as clean a finish as you can get in a match with flaming barbed wire, steel cages and ladders anyway. Royal Rumble 2003 - Loses by DQ. No Way Out 2003 - All members of Evolution interfere, HHH uses belt shot behind ref's back. Not clean. Wrestlemania 2003 - I've always seen this described as clean but reading the details to refresh my memory I'm not so sure. Flair attacks Booker on the outside and throws Booker's knee into the ring-steps which plays into the rest of the match. HHH works over Booker's now injured knee for the whole match with the likes of the Indian deathlocks. Booker fights back, hits the Harlem Hangover but his knee gives out on him and he can't go for the pin or stand up. HHH hits the Pedigree to finish him. If HHH was the one who threw him into the stairs and injured his knee it would be one thing but the fact it was an outside force in Flair who did it behind the ref's back and that very injured knee impacted the finish I can't call that a fair win. Not clean. Judgment Day 2003 - Loses by DQ. Bad Blood 2003 - Clean win in the cell. Summerslam 2003 - Flair throws sledgehammer in for the finish. Not clean. Unforgiven 2003 - Clean loss. Survivor Series 2003 - Clean loss. Armageddon 2003 - Kane puts Goldberg down with a chokeslam, Batista pulls Kane out the ring and holds him back so he can't stop HHH from pinning Goldberg. Not clean. Royal Rumble 2004 - Draw in a last man standing. Wrestlemania 2004 - Clean loss. Backlash 2004 - Loss but doesn't take the fall. Vengeance 2004 - Loss involving Eugene screwiness. Unforgiven 2004 - Batista and Flair attack Orton while ref is down, HHH uses chair to beat Orton and Batista throws the ref back in to count. Not clean. Taboo Tuesday 2004 - Edge screws Michaels. Not clean. New Year's Revolution 2005 - An already eliminated Batista re-enters the match and helps HHH finish off Orton. Not clean. Royal Rumble 2005 - Orton was "concussed" during the match but there were no rules broken really so clean win. Wrestlemania 2005 - Clean loss. Backlash 2005 - Clean loss. Vengeance 2005 - Clean loss.
24 matches. 12 wins (3 clean, 4 if you count the Booker match). 11 losses (7 clean, 2 DQs, 2 N/A). 1 draw. Brock Lesnar April 2014-April 2020 (ending the streak until the end of his heel run) {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Summerslam 2014 - Clean win. Night of Champions 2014 - DQ loss. Royal Rumble 2015 - Clean win. Wrestlemania 2015 - MITB cash-in loss. Battleground 2015 - DQ win. Wrestlemania 2017 - Clean win. Great Balls of Fire 2017 - Clean win. Summerslam 2017 - Clean win. No Mercy 2017 - Clean win. Royal Rumble 2018 - Clean win. Wrestlemania 2018 - Clean win. Greatest Royal Rumble 2018 - Controversial cage match win. Summerslam 2018 - Braun distracts Brock before finish. Not clean. Crown Jewel 2018 - Clean win. Royal Rumble 2019 - Clean win. Wrestemania 2019 - Rollins uses low-blow when ref is down before hitting curb stomps. Unclean loss. Extreme Rules 2019 - Cashes in MITB. Summerslam 2019 - Clean loss. Crown Jewel 2019 - Clean win. Survivor Series 2019 - Clean win. Super Showdown 2020 - Clean win. Wrestlemania 2020 - Clean loss.
22 matches. 16 wins (13 clean, 14 if you count MITB cash-in). 6 losses (2 clean, 3 if you count MITB cash-in). Roman Reigns August 2020-present (heel/tribal chief era): {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Payback 2020 - Clean win in no holds barred triple threat. Clash of Champions 2020 - Clean win via TKO. Hell in a Cell 2020 - Clean win. TLC 2020 - Uso interference. Not clean. Royal Rumble 2021 - Heyman helped Roman break out of handcuffs. Not clean. Elimination Chamber 2021 - Beats an exhausted Daniel Bryan who just won a chamber match. Fastlane 2021 - Tapped out with referee down then Edge attacked Bryan. Not clean. Wrestlemania 2021 - Uso interference. Not clean. Wrestlemania Backlash 2021 - Clean win. Money in the Bank 2021 - Uso and Rollins interference. Not clean. Summerslam 2021 - Clean win. Extreme Rules 2021 - Uso interference plus top rope breaking. Not clean. Crown Jewel 2021 - Uso interference plus belt shot. Not clean.
13 matches. 13 wins (5 clean). 0 losses. Well not really surprising but Lesnar and Reigns are more dominant that Hogan and HHH, both in terms of overall win percentage and the way in which they win, with way more clean victories, especially Lesnar.
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Post by sportatorium on Nov 4, 2021 14:25:34 GMT -5
Flair. Don't forget in addition to the Crockett work, his visits to NWA territories. He was the linchpin to tons of memorable storylines that unlike HHH & Brock helped get everyone involved over.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2021 15:35:11 GMT -5
Flair. Don't forget in addition to the Crockett work, his visits to NWA territories. He was the linchpin to tons of memorable storylines that unlike HHH & Brock helped get everyone involved over. If you are saying Flair was the best booked heel champ, I agree. If you are saying Flair was the most dominant heel in kayfabe, I disagree.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Nov 5, 2021 15:54:43 GMT -5
Canadian hero Bret Hart. It as only for a few months but he beat back Vader, Austin, Taker, Patriot and every American challenger at the Stampede event.
It kayfabe and legit took mafioso style planning from the company owner to get the title off him.
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Post by johnnyk9 on Nov 5, 2021 18:26:08 GMT -5
Yokozuna
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 5, 2021 18:45:13 GMT -5
If we’re talking about a kayfabe “power tier”, I’d say monsters like peak Vader and peak Lesnar, Yokozuna too even though he cheated quite a bit for a killer giant.
Hunter and Flair were “chickenshit” but in a way where I still could buy them as dangerous and tough, same with Hollywood as WCW champ where he was depowered down from Hulkamania but was mostly just desperately afraid of losing his beloved belt.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 8, 2021 4:29:23 GMT -5
There's more to booking than wins and losses and stats can give misleading impressions of a push. Triple H may have won or lost via screwy means, but what did he do between those matches? How heavily was he featured on TV? Twenty minute in ring promos about how great he is on every show were a thing, after all.
He was treated like a face champion as a heel, even as business declined, and when that was pointed out, the people who did it were the ones pushed aside.
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