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Post by mistery on Jan 11, 2022 8:56:14 GMT -5
It’s a throwaway Rumble match that also planted the seeds for the big Becky / Bianca rematch at Mania. I honestly see no issue with it. 🤷♂️ The problem is that WWE is showing literally zero interest in building up new stars. It's clear as day that the only women who actually truly matter are Becky, Charlotte, Sasha, Bayley, and Bianca. Anyone outside of that will get absolutely nothing outside of being fodder for one (or more) of those women. And there's no real way to fix it at this point either barring a massive shift in booking philosophy. This is why I wouldn't be shocked if a bunch of the more talented women leave the company when their contracts are up. Because none of them are going to get a chance to shine. And it's not a stretch to imagine that WWE is going to drag out the Becky/Bianca feud for as long as humanly possible even after Wrestlemania. It would not shock me in the slightest if they dragged it out until Summerslam or the draft. And then they would just change up the chairs on the sinking ship a bit. Why should people who aren't fans of the 4HW or Bianca (or are sick of them) get excited at the prospect of their favorite talents getting no real actual time to shine? This kind of stuff is why WWE should be sweating bullets, because if Tony ever puts 2 and 2 together and realizes there is an actual market for women's wrestling (that doesn't revolve around the same three women), or STARDOM decides to actually go forward with expanding their global reach, WWE is going to start losing ground incredibly quickly when it comes to women's wrestling. Because they seem to have tunnel vision in that only the women I mentioned above matter. Where if Tony realizes that a deep and diverse upper card for the women is something that is heavily requested (and its something STARDOM is already doing in Japan and their reach is already rapidly expanding), WWE is going to be in a real tough spot because they are piling everything onto the same five women and not letting anyone else actually get over. Like maybe if Doudrop had actually won a couple of matches over the past several weeks, people would take her more seriously and actually be interested in this feud. But nope. She's done nothing but lose since basically turning heel. Because god forbid Doudrop go over someone like Bianca to look like even the smallest of threats at the end of the day. |
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jan 11, 2022 9:49:47 GMT -5
The Raw women's division mainly exists so Becky can confuse the fans who want to cheer her by calling them losers and then shout obnoxiously about how much of a loser her latest opponent is en route to rolling them up so I'm not surprised they hastily are throwing Doudrop at her without thinking it through. It’s so confusing and frustrating. I get they want Becky to be a heel..but the crowds don’t want that! They want to cheer Becky AND Bianca AND Liv. But instead of building credible heels, they just throw half heated ones at people or turn popular baby faces who the fans want to get behind (ala Shotzi on Smackdown) heel. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 10:03:26 GMT -5
Doudrop has little to no momentum or cred right now she lost 3 times in a row to Bianca and everyone with or without eyesight knows she aint winning against Becky so that takes her down even further.
Know what would have helped lastnight? if she had pinned Bianca...yea it is from a triple threat and not one on one but that would have given her back something after Bianca just trounced her three times in a row.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 11, 2022 11:23:06 GMT -5
Toni Storm got so sick of this that she flat out QUIT!
They’ve spent like half a year killing off any aura that Rhea had as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 11:29:23 GMT -5
And the crowd goes mild.
Honestly, who can blame them?
Philadelphia was asleep last night. And it's all their fault.
Zero long term booking, no continuity, nothing they do makes sense or matters. They just throw random matches together and expect people to care.
Doesn't work like that. Us fans need a REASON to care. And right now, none of us care about Becky Lynch facing a woman with a tragic ringname who Bianca Belair has beaten twice.
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Post by facethatrunstheplace on Jan 11, 2022 11:30:47 GMT -5
Toni Storm got so sick of this that she flat out QUIT! They’ve spent like half a year killing off any aura that Rhea had as well. I thought she quit due to burnout. |
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 11, 2022 11:39:47 GMT -5
The Raw women's division mainly exists so Becky can confuse the fans who want to cheer her by calling them losers and then shout obnoxiously about how much of a loser her latest opponent is en route to rolling them up so I'm not surprised they hastily are throwing Doudrop at her without thinking it through. It’s so confusing and frustrating. I get they want Becky to be a heel..but the crowds don’t want that! They want to cheer Becky AND Bianca AND Liv. But instead of building credible heels, they just throw half heated ones at people or turn popular baby faces who the fans want to get behind (ala Shotzi on Smackdown) heel. You talk “building credible heels”… Who have they got if, as you suggest they should consider, they turn Lynch back to babyface? RAW’s heel depth is so bad beyond Lynch they’ve apparently got a superhero working heel now. And Rhea Ripley is almost in that same boat of “I like her too much for her to be heel” as Belair and Morgan. So will Asuka as soon as she’s cleared to return. And SmackDown’s depth beyond Flair is not much better. At least they have Baszler, but she’s too good to just be built up to be fed to other babyfaces. So you end up in this catch 22 situation of any heel that is a good enough worker is too good to simply be built up to be disposable challengers and deserve title runs of their own, and anyone that is perfectly disposable isn’t good enough to even be beating the undercard babyfaces to get built up in the first place, let alone getting a shot at the gold. |
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 11, 2022 11:44:17 GMT -5
It’s so confusing and frustrating. I get they want Becky to be a heel..but the crowds don’t want that! They want to cheer Becky AND Bianca AND Liv. But instead of building credible heels, they just throw half heated ones at people or turn popular baby faces who the fans want to get behind (ala Shotzi on Smackdown) heel. You talk “building credible heels”… Who have they got if, as you suggest they should consider, they turn Lynch back to babyface? RAW’s heel depth is so bad beyond Lynch they’ve apparently got a superhero working heel now. And Rhea Ripley is almost in that same boat of “I like her too much for her to be heel” as Belair and Morgan. So will Asuka as soon as she’s cleared to return. And SmackDown’s depth beyond Flair is not much better. At least they have Baszler, but she’s too good to just be built up to be fed to other babyfaces. So you end up in this catch 22 situation of any heel that is a good enough worker is too good to simply be built up to be disposable challengers and deserve title runs of their own, and anyone that is perfectly disposable isn’t good enough to even be beating the undercard babyfaces to get built up in the first place, let alone getting a shot at the gold. Baszler drives me mad because they *had* the chance to make her an instant killer on the main roster had she beaten Becky at Mania last year, but they didn't because....reasons. Then came a parade of nonsense where she teamed with Nia Jax to the delight of nobody, broke away and they made her look credible for a few weeks with the rampage injuring people...and now she's on Smackdown...just kinda there.... in the Niaomi/Sonya feud that's been going on for what feels like 19 months |
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jan 11, 2022 11:45:56 GMT -5
Toni Storm got so sick of this that she flat out QUIT! They’ve spent like half a year killing off any aura that Rhea had as well. I thought she quit due to burnout. Who knows for sure but her booking and the booking of the women's division in general might have played a big part in her being burnt out. If you aren't one of the 4HW, Bianca, or Alexa they don't give a crap. There's just no chance for advancement because they don't ever try to elevate anyone else. Who knows what Toni's reasons were but if it was work related I understand. Doesn't make much sense to waste the prime years of your career toiling away in the micard, being wasted, and not being used to your full potential. Better off just leaving and going somewhere else where you'll be used better. I do think she maybe she should've given her notice instead of just up and leaving without saying anything. I guess maybe she was worried they weren't going to grant it but even then she still could've just flew home like she did if they didn't accept it |
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 11, 2022 11:49:00 GMT -5
You talk “building credible heels”… Who have they got if, as you suggest they should consider, they turn Lynch back to babyface? RAW’s heel depth is so bad beyond Lynch they’ve apparently got a superhero working heel now. And Rhea Ripley is almost in that same boat of “I like her too much for her to be heel” as Belair and Morgan. So will Asuka as soon as she’s cleared to return. And SmackDown’s depth beyond Flair is not much better. At least they have Baszler, but she’s too good to just be built up to be fed to other babyfaces. So you end up in this catch 22 situation of any heel that is a good enough worker is too good to simply be built up to be disposable challengers and deserve title runs of their own, and anyone that is perfectly disposable isn’t good enough to even be beating the undercard babyfaces to get built up in the first place, let alone getting a shot at the gold. Baszler drives me mad because they *had* the chance to make her an instant killer on the main roster had she beaten Becky at Mania last year, but they didn't because....reasons. Then came a parade of nonsense where she teamed with Nia Jax to the delight of nobody, broke away and they made her look credible for a few weeks with the rampage injuring people...and now she's on Smackdown...just kinda there.... in the Niaomi/Sonya feud that's been going on for what feels like 19 months I still remember her running the table in the Elimination Chamber and most people hating it on a “This is actually bad” level. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 11, 2022 11:53:48 GMT -5
It’s a throwaway Rumble match that also planted the seeds for the big Becky / Bianca rematch at Mania. I honestly see no issue with it. 🤷♂️ The problem is that WWE is showing literally zero interest in building up new stars. It's clear as day that the only women who actually truly matter are Becky, Charlotte, Sasha, Bayley, and Bianca. Anyone outside of that will get absolutely nothing outside of being fodder for one (or more) of those women. And there's no real way to fix it at this point either barring a massive shift in booking philosophy. This is why I wouldn't be shocked if a bunch of the more talented women leave the company when their contracts are up. Because none of them are going to get a chance to shine. And it's not a stretch to imagine that WWE is going to drag out the Becky/Bianca feud for as long as humanly possible even after Wrestlemania. It would not shock me in the slightest if they dragged it out until Summerslam or the draft. And then they would just change up the chairs on the sinking ship a bit. Why should people who aren't fans of the 4HW or Bianca (or are sick of them) get excited at the prospect of their favorite talents getting no real actual time to shine? This kind of stuff is why WWE should be sweating bullets, because if Tony ever puts 2 and 2 together and realizes there is an actual market for women's wrestling (that doesn't revolve around the same three women), or STARDOM decides to actually go forward with expanding their global reach, WWE is going to start losing ground incredibly quickly when it comes to women's wrestling. Because they seem to have tunnel vision in that only the women I mentioned above matter. Where if Tony realizes that a deep and diverse upper card for the women is something that is heavily requested (and its something STARDOM is already doing in Japan and their reach is already rapidly expanding), WWE is going to be in a real tough spot because they are piling everything onto the same five women and not letting anyone else actually get over. Like maybe if Doudrop had actually won a couple of matches over the past several weeks, people would take her more seriously and actually be interested in this feud. But nope. She's done nothing but lose since basically turning heel. Because god forbid Doudrop go over someone like Bianca to look like even the smallest of threats at the end of the day. If we’re talking about who are the women’s division top-of-the-division stars that have been built up in recent years and can credibly main event PPVs, there’s Becky, Charlotte, Sasha, Bayley, Bianca, Asuka, Alexa. So it’s not a terrible situation when there are potentially 7 stars at that level. And then Ripley is still someone right on the cusp of joining that group. Then right on the tier below as credible stars that can credibly get PPV title matches and singles title reigns: Ripley, Shayna, Carmella, Natalya, Liv, Doudrop, Naomi, Sonya all fit that bill to me. |
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Post by mistery on Jan 11, 2022 12:05:46 GMT -5
The problem is that WWE is showing literally zero interest in building up new stars. It's clear as day that the only women who actually truly matter are Becky, Charlotte, Sasha, Bayley, and Bianca. Anyone outside of that will get absolutely nothing outside of being fodder for one (or more) of those women. And there's no real way to fix it at this point either barring a massive shift in booking philosophy. This is why I wouldn't be shocked if a bunch of the more talented women leave the company when their contracts are up. Because none of them are going to get a chance to shine. And it's not a stretch to imagine that WWE is going to drag out the Becky/Bianca feud for as long as humanly possible even after Wrestlemania. It would not shock me in the slightest if they dragged it out until Summerslam or the draft. And then they would just change up the chairs on the sinking ship a bit. Why should people who aren't fans of the 4HW or Bianca (or are sick of them) get excited at the prospect of their favorite talents getting no real actual time to shine? This kind of stuff is why WWE should be sweating bullets, because if Tony ever puts 2 and 2 together and realizes there is an actual market for women's wrestling (that doesn't revolve around the same three women), or STARDOM decides to actually go forward with expanding their global reach, WWE is going to start losing ground incredibly quickly when it comes to women's wrestling. Because they seem to have tunnel vision in that only the women I mentioned above matter. Where if Tony realizes that a deep and diverse upper card for the women is something that is heavily requested (and its something STARDOM is already doing in Japan and their reach is already rapidly expanding), WWE is going to be in a real tough spot because they are piling everything onto the same five women and not letting anyone else actually get over. Like maybe if Doudrop had actually won a couple of matches over the past several weeks, people would take her more seriously and actually be interested in this feud. But nope. She's done nothing but lose since basically turning heel. Because god forbid Doudrop go over someone like Bianca to look like even the smallest of threats at the end of the day. If we’re talking about who are the women’s division top-of-the-division stars that have been built up in recent years and can credibly main event PPVs, there’s Becky, Charlotte, Sasha, Bayley, Bianca, Asuka, Alexa. So it’s not a terrible situation when there are potentially 7 stars at that level. And then Ripley is still someone right on the cusp of joining that group. Then right on the tier below as credible stars that can credibly get PPV title matches and singles title reigns: Ripley, Shayna, Carmella, Natalya, Liv, Doudrop, Naomi, Sonya all fit that bill to me. I don't know if you've been paying attention to Asuka's booking but before she left to take a break or have surgery or whatever the hell she's up to, her booking took a significant downturn at the end of 2020 and start of 2021 and never recovered. Last year alone, she had the worst win:loss ratio of any woman on the main roster. It's pretty clear she's not seen as a main event level talent anymore. Alexa might have a case but that's just because she moves an obscene amount of merchandise. If she didn't move all that merch, she wouldn't be even in the conversation for being in the title scene. And anyone below the 4HW and Bianca are seen as at least one major step below. You don't see WWE putting all of their muscle behind pushing Asuka as a main figure of the company like you do with the 4HW and Bianca. And for all the talk of diversity, WWE can do a hell of a lot better with their Asian talents, especially as of late. Where Sarray is completely off of TV and almost certainly in the next round of cuts (and its not her fault in the slightest, all because WWE refuses to give her a chance to actually get over or develop a character, because she isn't attractive enough in their eyes), Jiro and Kushida are stuck in a borderline offensive tag team, Io Shirai is stuck doing terrible comedy bits and putting over other women with significantly weaker gimmicks, and Tozawa is in a gimmick that could be described as distasteful at best. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 11, 2022 12:16:53 GMT -5
If we’re talking about who are the women’s division top-of-the-division stars that have been built up in recent years and can credibly main event PPVs, there’s Becky, Charlotte, Sasha, Bayley, Bianca, Asuka, Alexa. So it’s not a terrible situation when there are potentially 7 stars at that level. And then Ripley is still someone right on the cusp of joining that group. Then right on the tier below as credible stars that can credibly get PPV title matches and singles title reigns: Ripley, Shayna, Carmella, Natalya, Liv, Doudrop, Naomi, Sonya all fit that bill to me. I don't know if you've been paying attention to Asuka's booking but before she left to take a break or have surgery or whatever the hell she's up to, her booking took a significant downturn at the end of 2020 and start of 2021 and never recovered. Last year alone, she had the worst win:loss ratio of any woman on the main roster. It's pretty clear she's not seen as a main event level talent anymore. Alexa might have a case but that's just because she moves an obscene amount of merchandise. If she didn't move all that merch, she wouldn't be even in the conversation for being in the title scene. And anyone below the 4HW and Bianca are seen as at least one major step below. You don't see WWE putting all of their muscle behind pushing Asuka as a main figure of the company like you do with the 4HW and Bianca. And for all the talk of diversity, WWE can do a hell of a lot better with their Asian talents, especially as of late. Where Sarray is completely off of TV and almost certainly in the next round of cuts (and its not her fault in the slightest, all because WWE refuses to give her a chance to actually get over or develop a character, because she isn't attractive enough in their eyes), Jiro and Kushida are stuck in a borderline offensive tag team, Io Shirai is stuck doing terrible comedy bits and putting over other women with significantly weaker gimmicks, and Tozawa is in a gimmick that could be described as distasteful at best. I think you’re way overemphasizing Asuka’s push down the card. She was pushed as unstoppable pretty much for years and years. The most protected women’s wrestler they had. She had a couple of months where she lost a bit more than usual (right after a very long world title reign) and now she’s been out with an injury. I’d say there’s a better chance of her returning to the title scene than her being “buried” upon her return. |
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,511
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 11, 2022 12:18:34 GMT -5
Baszler drives me mad because they *had* the chance to make her an instant killer on the main roster had she beaten Becky at Mania last year, but they didn't because....reasons. Then came a parade of nonsense where she teamed with Nia Jax to the delight of nobody, broke away and they made her look credible for a few weeks with the rampage injuring people...and now she's on Smackdown...just kinda there.... in the Niaomi/Sonya feud that's been going on for what feels like 19 months I still remember her running the table in the Elimination Chamber and most people hating it on a “This is actually bad” level. If people only knew what was coming..... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 12:26:50 GMT -5
The issue with Asuka's booking and this has been a constant with her...she gets accolades but she is never treated as THEE woman in the division even when she is champion and this is not something that is only being pointed out now but has been always a pivotal discussion point about most of her main roster run.
And it was especially evident in her last run with the womens title.
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Post by eJm on Jan 11, 2022 12:30:07 GMT -5
The issue with Asuka's booking and this has been a constant with her...she gets accolades but she is never treated as THEE woman in the division even when she is champion and this is not something that is only being pointed out now but has been always a pivotal discussion point about most of her main roster run. And it was especially evident in her last run with the womens title. It did seem like one of those things like when people go “_____ wasn’t used badly, they had all these title reigns” and it’s like, sure, they did, but do people remember them? Were they a focus of a time or was something not involving the belts taken more as a priority? Like, there are circumstances to these things, giving someone a belt and a reign doesn’t really make them as it once did and it hasn’t for years. |
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,511
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 11, 2022 12:32:49 GMT -5
The issue with Asuka's booking and this has been a constant with her...she gets accolades but she is never treated as THEE woman in the division even when she is champion and this is not something that is only being pointed out now but has been always a pivotal discussion point about most of her main roster run. And it was especially evident in her last run with the womens title. It did seem like one of those things like when people go “_____ wasn’t used badly, they had all these title reigns” and it’s like, sure, they did, but do people remember them? Were they a focus of a time or was something not involving the belts taken more as a priority? Like, there are circumstances to these things, giving someone a belt and a reign doesn’t really make them as it once did and it hasn’t for years. Know what's striking about Charlotte's reigns? Other than losing one of them to Carmella cashing in and her yo-yoing the title with Sasha, I remember exactly dick about anything she did as champion |
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Post by mistery on Jan 11, 2022 12:42:51 GMT -5
The issue with Asuka's booking and this has been a constant with her...she gets accolades but she is never treated as THEE woman in the division even when she is champion and this is not something that is only being pointed out now but has been always a pivotal discussion point about most of her main roster run. And it was especially evident in her last run with the womens title. It did seem like one of those things like when people go “_____ wasn’t used badly, they had all these title reigns” and it’s like, sure, they did, but do people remember them? Were they a focus of a time or was something not involving the belts taken more as a priority? Like, there are circumstances to these things, giving someone a belt and a reign doesn’t really make them as it once did and it hasn’t for years. Yeah. The whole "WELL LOOK AT ALL THESE ACCOLADES SHE GOT SHE ISNT BEING DAMAGED AT ALL" remark is something Asuka fans especially have to deal with. Not realizing that outside of her tag title reign with Kairi, absolutely none of her reigns mattered in the grand scheme of things, it was all "oh crap we need to put the title on someone because the actual champion is going to be busy with other stuff". Asuka has never truly had a moment of her own. And she's presented clearly below the 4HW and Bianca in terms of importance. And there's literally no reason to think that will change on her return. I bet that she'll just be fed to Bianca immediately upon her return and then fall back down the card. Because WWE is seriously averse to pushing (and actually spotlighting) talents where English isn't their first language. Especially Asian ones. Which is especially ironic considering WWE touts itself as an international company. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 12:44:22 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. I said in a previous thread that it's pretty clear that while they've been keeping Becky as a worldbeater they've also been building Bianca, Liv and Doudrop all together. The problem is that Doudrop kept talking shit and kept getting beaten by someone stronger than her aka Bianca. It doesn't mean she's weak or isn't one of their best women, it just means she was biting off way more than she could chew.
They just gotta do better with establishing wins and losses. I can see what they were doing, I can see what they tried to do but the execution was a lil bit off.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Jan 11, 2022 12:46:24 GMT -5
Yup. It's BLATANTLY obvious who is winning the Rumble now. It's going to be Bianca. And it's going to suck. It doesn't help that they've had...Bianca bulldoze over the entire division on her path back to Becky, so she has literally zero credible threats even if she does win the title at Wrestlemania It's a vicious cycle that applies to any of the other Horeswomen. They've been booked as the only women who matter, so the only ones that matter are whichever Horesewomen has the title and whoever is challenging them at the moment. Why should I give a f*** about Alexa's return, Lacey's impeding return or any possible NXT callup? Without excusing their generally crappy booking, let’s not pretend they don’t book Alexa very strongly. Even when she was taking things slow after her concussions, she was still a tag champion. The general complaint around here is they book her TOO strongly (dominant heel champ, overtaking the Bray/Orton feud) |
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