Is ending NXT 1.0 a punishment for losing to AEW?

[Zen411]

I've been thinking about this for a while and apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.

Knowing how vindictive Vince can be, did he do the firings, changeover to nxt 2.0 branding, and letting contracts expire out of spite? They made a lot of changes to nxt to go head to head with aew. Two hour show, now live for the first time, moved to Wednesday and completely expected to beat aew. When that didn't happen I'm sure vince was pissed and embarrassed.

Regal, karrion kross, Cole, Keith Lee, oreilly, fish, ember moon, gargano, Timothy thatcher, etc etc. Changeover to new branding and smashing the old x.

Was this all vince getting even for "losing" to aew?

[King (Super) Dragunov]

1,000,000%

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

I think I said this recently when a similar topic came up… People weren’t watching NXT not because of any outright hatred for what NXT was doing, it was because the intent was to get behind Dynamite in enough numbers that it forces WWE to fix up RAW and SmackDown. It was a protest vote against the main roster, and NXT in its prior form was collateral damage.

But that’s only because WWE put them in that situation, either thinking that fans would choose their indie workrate brand over a whole new indie workrate national promotion, or just to set them up to fail so they had an excuse to make changes they’d been wanting to make for years. Either makes sense.

[Zen411]

I also wonder if finn balor losing as the demon for the first time and now losing to austin theory is related too. Just anyone they hoped would improve ratings for nxt seem to be punished or let go.

[Gravedigger's Biscuits]

"Punishment" is probably the wrong word as I don't think Vince did it to be petty or send a message.

I think he just genuinely felt NXT had failed at it's original goal of producing stars for Raw and SmackDown, and so he decided to bring it back to basics with younger guys developed in-house being the focus.

[Deleted]

100% IMO yes.

.

[1 Free Moon-Down with Burger]

I think it’s a bit of them acknowledging the fan sentiment during that time.

A lot of the discourse was talking about how NXT was stale and it’s stars weren’t as good as AEW’s people. On and on it went. Clowning on NXT for losing in the ratings and saying it sucks.

So Vince and crew just shrugged and said “Alright, guess what they’re currently doing ain’t working”

[mistery]

Jan 18, 2022 10:11:53 GMT -5 Gravedigger's Biscuits said:

"Punishment" is probably the wrong word as I don't think Vince did it to be petty or send a message.

I think he just genuinely felt NXT had failed at it's original goal of producing stars for Raw and SmackDown, and so he decided to bring it back to basics with younger guys developed in-house being the focus.

The problem with that logic is:

Is it truly Triple H's fault, or is it the fault of Vince? Because Vince seems to have a habit of sabotaging things he didn't create personally. And WWE is shooting themselves in the foot right now with NXT 2.0. Because people aren't going to want to see failed athletes or instagram models competing every week on national television. And if I came from the indies before this changeover, I would be making an exit plan right now, because it's not a matter of if you get cut, its a matter of when. And for all the talk of 2.0 bringing in new viewers, the exact opposite is happening. WWE is burning away all of the younger hardcore fans they had remaining, and all that's left are the olds.

Also along the same lines, there's no guarantee Vince won't mess everything up once the supposed "in-house" talent gets called up as well. It could be just as bad, if not worse. Especially since they don't have an actual established fanbase leading into the show, where indie wrestlers generally do.

WWE is sabotaging its own future simply to spite Triple H. Because a lot of these 2.0 gimmicks aren't going to get over on the main roster.

[Lizuka #BLM]

I don't think it's entirely that but it definitely played a significant part.

[robferatu]

I think it’s fair to say that NXT 1.0 handily losing the “Wednesday Night War” to AEW lead to the brand being rebranded and relaunched as NXT 2.0.

The ironic thing is, I doubt NXT 2.0 will ever be positioned to try to challenge AEW, but not because the WWE doesn’t want the go head-to-head against them, but because “if” they would lose again it would more-so because you wouldn’t have Triple H and his crew as the scapegoats this time around.

It would directly be a mark against Vince McMahon, Kevin Dunn, Bruce Pritchard and etc.

[kingoftheindies]

Short answer yes.

Long answer? When you are Network exclusive you get a lot more slack then when you are on cable television. Then you have to answer to Vince, Networks, and sponsors. NXT also did numbers significantly worse than they pitched to both Vince and to USA to get that slot while AEW significantly overperformed projections (Turner was expecting and said would be happy with 250k a week).

Because of that stuff and the lack of growth they got thrown under a microscope and any complaints that there may have been (example agents and producers feeling NXT call ups were not properly prepared for main roster matches) became magnified

[James Fabiano]

Jan 18, 2022 10:01:10 GMT -5 Zen411 said:

I've been thinking about this for a while and apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.

Knowing how vindictive Vince can be, did he do the firings, changeover to nxt 2.0 branding, and letting contracts expire out of spite? They made a lot of changes to nxt to go head to head with aew. Two hour show, now live for the first time, moved to Wednesday and completely expected to beat aew. When that didn't happen I'm sure vince was pissed and embarrassed.

Regal, karrion kross, Cole, Keith Lee, oreilly, fish, ember moon, gargano, Timothy thatcher, etc etc. Changeover to new branding and smashing the old x.

Was this all vince getting even for "losing" to aew?

This is a theory? Did you hear Demolition lost the tag team titles?

(Sorry couldn't resist playing...)

Well that and probably because it wasn't Vince's idea, and nothing lasts long there.

[mistery]

Jan 18, 2022 12:41:32 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Short answer yes.

Long answer? When you are Network exclusive you get a lot more slack then when you are on cable television. Then you have to answer to Vince, Networks, and sponsors. NXT also did numbers significantly worse than they pitched to both Vince and to USA to get that slot while AEW significantly overperformed projections (Turner was expecting and said would be happy with 250k a week).

Because of that stuff and the lack of growth they got thrown under a microscope and any complaints that there may have been (example agents and producers feeling NXT call ups were not properly prepared for main roster matches) became magnified

Here's the kicker though. NXT 2.0 isn't faring any better in numbers. In fact, its arguably doing notably worse. And all of the "not properly prepared" for main roster stuff is garbage considering Vince is at the helm of all that, and he likes to ruin stuff on a regular basis. So its incredibly likely he "ruins" any NXT 2.0 talent that gets called up as well.

So what happens when NXT 2.0 fails? Vince is out of scapegoats at this point. Either he continues down this path of self destruction, or he realizes that NXT 1.0 had more things going for it than whatever this current abomination is.

[Deleted]

In Vince's mind, NXT was too indy. The wrestlers were too small, too old, they didn't offer any crossover appeal.

Vince is all about the character aspect. Distinctive looks. Mic skills and promo ability.

Kyle O'Reilly, Bobby Fish, Roderick Strong, Johnny Gargano, Timothy Thatcher... They were never gonna make it in WWE. They're small indyriffic "rasslers". Some people might enjoy that but the vast majority don't.

The masses are not flicking through the channel and leaving the station on to see Timothy Thatcher and Johnny Gargano burn the house down. They are more likely to leave the station on when they see Papa Shango possess The Ultimate Warrior.

I can appreciate both sides of wrestling. But I totally get Vince's vision. Wrestling needs a boom again and we aren't gonna get it with these vanilla midgets, jack.

As the Hulkster says, these Cruiserweights can Cruiser-Wait, brother.

[kingoftheindies]

Jan 18, 2022 12:49:15 GMT -5 mistery said:

Jan 18, 2022 12:41:32 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Short answer yes.

Long answer? When you are Network exclusive you get a lot more slack then when you are on cable television. Then you have to answer to Vince, Networks, and sponsors. NXT also did numbers significantly worse than they pitched to both Vince and to USA to get that slot while AEW significantly overperformed projections (Turner was expecting and said would be happy with 250k a week).

Because of that stuff and the lack of growth they got thrown under a microscope and any complaints that there may have been (example agents and producers feeling NXT call ups were not properly prepared for main roster matches) became magnified

Here's the kicker though. NXT 2.0 isn't faring any better in numbers. In fact, its arguably doing notably worse. And all of the "not properly prepared" for main roster stuff is garbage considering Vince is at the helm of all that, and he likes to ruin stuff on a regular basis. So its incredibly likely he "ruins" any NXT 2.0 talent that gets called up as well.

So what happens when NXT 2.0 fails? Vince is out of scapegoats at this point. Either he continues down this path of self destruction, or he realizes that NXT 1.0 had more things going for it than whatever this current abomination is.

Fair though apparently USA is fine with 2.0 ratings according to Zarian and they are no longer competing directly with AEW.

Either way my main point was more that once they went up directly against AEW things that Vince and others may not have liked or cared about became magnified. So things may not have been a big deal but became it because of said failure

[Vice honcho room temperature]

I miss that time period when it left the game show but was this bizarre time filler taped before SmackDown that clearly only happened because they had contractual obligations for it.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Yes and no. It was a factor but it wasn't the only factor that lead to this, I think the biggest factor is the fact it was expensive to run and the talent they were turning out were not what Vince wanted for the main roster. Let's face facts, Adam Cole was not Vince's idea of a superstar, Gargano, Fish and others, none of them were, Vince wants people like Roman, like Von Wagner, big guys who look like they've stepped from the pages of comics, not indie darlings who're no bigger than most of the audience in terms of height. Failing to harm AEW in any meaningful way no doubt gave Prichard and others something to point at and say 'Look, this kind of wrestling doesn't draw for us!' and made it easier for them to start doing to NXT the things they did to OVW/DSW/FCW, with dead end callups being the order of the day.

Had covid not hit, they'd still have been touring, making more money from Takeovers and the like to make it harder for them to justify pulling the rug out from under so many guys, they could have justified needing to retain them to be live draws and to be part of the planned NXT international expansion, but with all that gone, the door was open for meddling, so here we are.

[stoptheclocks]

It was neither producing the wrestlers they wanted, nor was it doing particularly well as a standalone show. People simply chose AEW over it, and so it had run its course.

[Kalmia]

I think it was 50% that, 50% NXT's failure (in Vince's eyes) to make any major main roster stars.

As long as the NXT call ups kept 'failing' on Raw and Smackdown, the change was always inevitable although it might have come later and been less severe. It was easier to change NXT and blame the failures on the crew there than it was to put the blame on how Raw and Smackdown mishandled everyone.

Ultimately, I think NXT 1.0 was just a scapegoat for WWE's larger failings.

[thehottag]

I'd like to answer the OP's question with whatever the opposite of the Ambrose 'nope' gif is.

Jan 18, 2022 12:54:18 GMT -5 @negan said:

They're small indyriffic "rasslers". Some people might enjoy that but the vast majority don't.

I love this argument that the public don't enjoy "proper wrestling", like Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels weren't massive stars for the company.

Jan 18, 2022 12:54:18 GMT -5 @negan said:

They are more likely to leave the station on when they see The Fiend possess Randy Orton.

How's those record-low ratings going?