tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,118
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 21, 2022 17:32:09 GMT -5
A squash was the only thing that made sense. It's not like it was a grudge match or that anyone believed HHH had any chance to stop Warrior in his heavily hyped comeback match. Doing it any other way would have been weird.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jan 21, 2022 20:40:12 GMT -5
Triple H was fighting Garbage Men and Hog Farmers... Warrior is the kayfabe greatest wrestler of all time. He was a unbeatable god. You want a back and forth match? I've never understood this. They needed a semi hot midcard heel to do the job. Triple H didn't really lose any mystique and was moved into a feud with Marc Mero. As for Warrior they had no idea what to do with him after that, but people paid money to see Warrior wreck a fool at Mania and that match was a success. I'm with you. It absolutely astounds me that way one thinks it should have been a competitive match.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,934
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 21, 2022 21:30:07 GMT -5
Triple H is lucky Warrior allowed him to be in the ring with him.
“You need to wrestle me, I don’t need to wrestle you”
Close to what Punk said and what Warrior also should have said.
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Post by wildojinx on Jan 22, 2022 9:18:50 GMT -5
Looking back, it would have made more sense to have Bob Backlund do the job to Warrior. Backlund was a former 2 time champion, so you could have hyped it as a battle of the former champs. Plus, it would have led to some memorable promos from Backlund.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,094
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 22, 2022 9:28:56 GMT -5
A year later, the Road Warriors returned and had a competitive match with the Headbangers that ended in a no-contest. That was the first step in the legendary Road Warriors being just a couple guys for that run. I don't think it helped, but neither do I think it hurt them. The problem was that the Road Warriors were a relic. It's the same reason Dusty tried to turn them heel, which failed because fans didn't want to boo them. The Road Warriors were pretty one-dimensional, and while some teams could cover for their weaknesses, '97 or so WWF really didn't have many of those kinds of teams around. Couple that with Hawk's substance abuse, and just the team kind of looking dated due to how many '80s and early '90s acts had aped their look, and it was always going to peter out for them. Now I am kind of wondering, if Hawk could be clean and maybe they could refresh their act a little, I sort of wonder if that'd have stalled newer teams like the Hardyz and E&C from getting their break. Edge probably would have been fine since they clearly wanted to groom him for a big role, but he might have stuck with the singles push for longer.
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Post by jason1980s on Jan 22, 2022 9:40:20 GMT -5
Looking back, it would have made more sense to have Bob Backlund do the job to Warrior. Backlund was a former 2 time champion, so you could have hyped it as a battle of the former champs. Plus, it would have led to some memorable promos from Backlund. That would have been awesome. Bob would have no problem losing in a minute or two and wouldn't be grumbling about it years later. It would have been just another match in his long career and would know it was "best for the business" to make Warrior look good in his return. And as you said it would have led to some great promos. Blue Blood Hunter was not in the same league as Warrior at the time so if he did promos towards Warrior they would have fallen flat.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Jan 22, 2022 11:13:04 GMT -5
A year later, the Road Warriors returned and had a competitive match with the Headbangers that ended in a no-contest. That was the first step in the legendary Road Warriors being just a couple guys for that run. I don't think it helped, but neither do I think it hurt them. The problem was that the Road Warriors were a relic. It's the same reason Dusty tried to turn them heel, which failed because fans didn't want to boo them. The Road Warriors were pretty one-dimensional, and while some teams could cover for their weaknesses, '97 or so WWF really didn't have many of those kinds of teams around. Couple that with Hawk's substance abuse, and just the team kind of looking dated due to how many '80s and early '90s acts had aped their look, and it was always going to peter out for them Part of the reason they looked like relics is going 50-50 with the Headbangers, a perfect team to theoretically make them look good.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,094
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 22, 2022 11:23:49 GMT -5
I don't think it helped, but neither do I think it hurt them. The problem was that the Road Warriors were a relic. It's the same reason Dusty tried to turn them heel, which failed because fans didn't want to boo them. The Road Warriors were pretty one-dimensional, and while some teams could cover for their weaknesses, '97 or so WWF really didn't have many of those kinds of teams around. Couple that with Hawk's substance abuse, and just the team kind of looking dated due to how many '80s and early '90s acts had aped their look, and it was always going to peter out for them Part of the reason they looked like relics is going 50-50 with the Headbangers, a perfect team to theoretically make them look good. Didn't the Headbangers win the titles not super long after this? I sort of wonder if WWF already knew that they'd go with that, in which case booking them against the Legion of Doom in the first place was just stupid.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,118
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 22, 2022 11:57:25 GMT -5
A year later, the Road Warriors returned and had a competitive match with the Headbangers that ended in a no-contest. That was the first step in the legendary Road Warriors being just a couple guys for that run. I don't think it helped, but neither do I think it hurt them. The problem was that the Road Warriors were a relic. It's the same reason Dusty tried to turn them heel, which failed because fans didn't want to boo them. The Road Warriors were pretty one-dimensional, and while some teams could cover for their weaknesses, '97 or so WWF really didn't have many of those kinds of teams around. Couple that with Hawk's substance abuse, and just the team kind of looking dated due to how many '80s and early '90s acts had aped their look, and it was always going to peter out for them. Now I am kind of wondering, if Hawk could be clean and maybe they could refresh their act a little, I sort of wonder if that'd have stalled newer teams like the Hardyz and E&C from getting their break. Edge probably would have been fine since they clearly wanted to groom him for a big role, but he might have stuck with the singles push for longer. I don't think it was that their act needed refreshing. It was that their act needed protecting. They absolutely were one dimensional, not adaptable, and there was nothing that was going to stop them from losing their mystique. The only thing that could have kept the Road Warriors strong was using them as a special attraction, like the Brock Lesnars of the tag team division. Instead they did that awful tag run in '93, then Hawk did his solo runs in WCW that went nowhere and got his arm "broken" by Kurosawa. They (mostly Hawk) were overexposed and Vince was only thinking about the short term of milking Road Warrior nostalgia for all that it was worth when they could have been an attraction for years to come if they'd been protected better. Like the Warrior, I think they still could have had something to offer in short bursts, but to be worth anything they had to be booked in a way that was consistent with their legend, because once the legend is exposed, they're just two middle aged power lifters wearing makeup.
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Squirrel Master
Hank Scorpio
"Then the Squirrel Master came out of left field and told me I'm his bitch!"
Posts: 6,647
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Post by Squirrel Master on Jan 22, 2022 12:32:02 GMT -5
I still do not understand what they wanted from Warrior in '96? I know Vince wanted names to help the product after '95, but Warrior was such a problematic personality, I cannot imagine McMahon's plan. I said in my previous post that '96 was about establishing new talent, and it got me thinking, which talent was to be elevated by bringing in Warrior? Shawn was already lined up to be the guy for '96, so why was Warrior needed? To help build Vader? As shit as his WCW run was, at least they had a definitive plan for him. Vince brought him back, gave him Hunter and then... had him, um... Lawler feud... then? I think that the right move would have been to feed Warrior to Vader, then have Vader go over everybody until the next Wrestlemania, where Vader drops the title to Shawn Michaels via interference by Sherri Martel. That could set up a program between Shawn and Vader, perhaps with Warrior entering the mix as well.
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Post by protuberance on Jan 27, 2022 3:53:15 GMT -5
It's not a huge deal to make Hunter take the stupid squash, because he was playing a snot-nosed prissy kinda guy anyway. It makes sense that he's suddenly overwhelmed by Warrior.
My problem is that it wastes his contribution to the show as a whole, which turned out to be a lame show. He was a good enough worker, even then, that 10 minutes with anyone else would have been a decent match. Razor? Jake? Hakushi? 123 Kid?
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jan 27, 2022 4:10:12 GMT -5
Part of the reason they looked like relics is going 50-50 with the Headbangers, a perfect team to theoretically make them look good. Didn't the Headbangers win the titles not super long after this? I sort of wonder if WWF already knew that they'd go with that, in which case booking them against the Legion of Doom in the first place was just stupid. Nah, it was close to half a year later. LoD returned in early 1997, and the Headbangers came away as champs in the fall after Austin and Dude Love had to relinquish the tag titles due to Austin taking the Owen Driver at Summerslam.
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Post by jason1980s on Jan 27, 2022 11:50:51 GMT -5
It's not a huge deal to make Hunter take the stupid squash, because he was playing a snot-nosed prissy kinda guy anyway. It makes sense that he's suddenly overwhelmed by Warrior. My problem is that it wastes his contribution to the show as a whole, which turned out to be a lame show. He was a good enough worker, even then, that 10 minutes with anyone else would have been a decent match. Razor? Jake? Hakushi? 123 Kid? It's crazy to think there was such a lack of talent at the time. Wrestlemania's 2 through 6 could have had a large amount of heels who could take a loss to a returning star. By 12 I think the only guys on the heel side were Isaac Yankem, Bradshaw and Hunter. Mabel was gone shortly after the Rumble but if they had him stay that would have been a cool squash. Isaac's stock had declined pretty much after Summerslam 95, Bradshaw was brand new with no notoriety so it was pretty much just Hunter. It's amazing to think two, if not all three were as popular and famous as Warrior had been. Bradshaw is a stretch, I know...but he's been around multiple times longer than Warrior.
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Post by brackus on Jan 27, 2022 16:46:43 GMT -5
Warrior also squashed Honkey Tonk Man, the longest raining IC champ, at Summer Slam. The echoes of the crowd cheering their lungs out can still be heard in Madison Square Garden to this day. Listen to the crowd at WM12, nobody cared for HHH. People went nuts for Warrior- Millenial Wrestling Fans / Generation Z do not get 80´s or early 90´s wrestling. They want to see 100 finishers with kick-outs, wrestlers jumping around like they are from the circus doing crazy stuff and young, smaller guys beating the big guys. What made wrestling big in the 80´s: Immovable objects vs irresistable forces. The IWC today would give Hogan vs Andre minus 5 stars ... back then it was the thing that made wrestling what it is today. It was not Warriors character or in-ring persona to "put someone over". Especially not in a big return match. As others have mentioned: HHH was a midcarder back in the days. If HHH made Warrior look weak then that would have killed any momentum for Warrior´s return. It is anther story that the return jonly lastet a couple of months. HHH on the other hand: That was his first Mania and he went against one of the greatest WWF superstars in his return match. Does anyone really think HHH was pissed that he lost THAT match the way he did? He had a big spot on the grandest stage against one of the biggest guys in wrestling!
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jan 27, 2022 18:56:33 GMT -5
I mean Warriors match should have been a squash... It's his gimmick and before the time of all squashes were on YouTube so I can see someone paying money for it back then. Should it have been HHH and had the pedigree spot? Probably not
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jan 28, 2022 14:50:17 GMT -5
Warrior also squashed Honkey Tonk Man, the longest raining IC champ, at Summer Slam. The echoes of the crowd cheering their lungs out can still be heard in Madison Square Garden to this day. Listen to the crowd at WM12, nobody cared for HHH. People went nuts for Warrior- Millenial Wrestling Fans / Generation Z do not get 80´s or early 90´s wrestling. They want to see 100 finishers with kick-outs, wrestlers jumping around like they are from the circus doing crazy stuff and young, smaller guys beating the big guys. What made wrestling big in the 80´s: Immovable objects vs irresistable forces. The IWC today would give Hogan vs Andre minus 5 stars ... back then it was the thing that made wrestling what it is today. It was not Warriors character or in-ring persona to "put someone over". Especially not in a big return match. As others have mentioned: HHH was a midcarder back in the days. If HHH made Warrior look weak then that would have killed any momentum for Warrior´s return. It is anther story that the return jonly lastet a couple of months. HHH on the other hand: That was his first Mania and he went against one of the greatest WWF superstars in his return match. Does anyone really think HHH was pissed that he lost THAT match the way he did? He had a big spot on the grandest stage against one of the biggest guys in wrestling! Hi, Jim! (I kid)
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,979
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Post by chazraps on Jan 28, 2022 19:09:32 GMT -5
Warrior also squashed Honkey Tonk Man, the longest raining IC champ, at Summer Slam. The echoes of the crowd cheering their lungs out can still be heard in Madison Square Garden to this day. Listen to the crowd at WM12, nobody cared for HHH. People went nuts for Warrior- Millenial Wrestling Fans / Generation Z do not get 80´s or early 90´s wrestling. They want to see 100 finishers with kick-outs, wrestlers jumping around like they are from the circus doing crazy stuff and young, smaller guys beating the big guys. What made wrestling big in the 80´s: Immovable objects vs irresistable forces. The IWC today would give Hogan vs Andre minus 5 stars ... back then it was the thing that made wrestling what it is today. Nah
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Jan 29, 2022 21:37:57 GMT -5
Hunter had been feuding with Duke the Dumpster, for pity's sake. One can quibble about taking the Pedigree, but Warrior no-selling his offence and killing him in seconds is the only plausible outcome. And, you know, I think the Pedigree still ended up a pretty credible finisher despite this.
If Hunter wanted a real match with Warrior, he should've pushed for a real feud, his humiliation driving his character to get a bit more serious and aggressive until eventually he got a rematch where he loses again but earns respect for putting up a good fight (instead of thinking jumping Warrior before the bell could've gotten a cheap win). That actually would've been a good context for his planned KotR win.
But right then, for that match? The squash was the only possible outcome. Warrior's mystique would have been killed by struggling to beat a lower midcarder, which is what Hunter was.
That run for Warrior was meh, but that's not all on him. Vince never had a good idea what to do with Warrior post-Wrestlemania VI. He was a unique special attraction, not a normal wrestler. This was especially true since his look and style epitomised an earlier era so you had to avoid him looking out of date or stale.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jan 30, 2022 15:46:31 GMT -5
In 1996, who honestly thought Hunter would be a main eventer some day, let alone have the longevity he's had?
I didn't reckon he'd be around in a couple of years and was nothing more than a warm body for a returning legend to destroy.
I mean, Sid squashed Hunter like a fly on RAW later in the year when they did a champion vs champion bout after Survivor Series and Hunter was IC champion.
It just showed Triple H was reaching above his station and got squashed. Certainly in kayfabe.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jan 30, 2022 20:24:38 GMT -5
I mean Warriors match should have been a squash... It's his gimmick and before the time of all squashes were on YouTube so I can see someone paying money for it back then. Should it have been HHH and had the pedigree spot? Probably not This.
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