Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,184
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Feb 8, 2022 15:17:13 GMT -5
I think there's a big difference between being bland and having no personality. Although, noone really has no personality. Some just shine through more than others. I'd say what's often described as the intangible it-factor is the same as not being bland. Guys like Danielson, like Bret Hart and maybe Garcia aren't like that. They don't have that intangible quality. But what they have is at least equally valueable - a tangible personality. Danielson is a real person and a wrestler and there's no dividing what's making him him and what's making him a grade A wrestler. It's naked authenticity and what we see is a rock solid person with beliefs, interests, strenghts, weaknesses. Everybody has that to a degree, but most also know the struggle with being authentic about your more deviating traits. Danielson's tangible deviating traits make him so outstanding. Bret was very similar to that, because since him I've never witnessed any wrestler with an equal sense of desperation in his work. I can't transition this to Garcia, thinking about this feels more like being an old man trying to tell a prodigy that it's not about being good early on, but to see yourself in your work. It does take time to work out how to express that. Watch Bret in like, 1986 and he's the same guy but he couldn't get it out, hence putting him with Jimmy and Anvil, who could cover the personality part, hence his trademark sunglasses, hiding his eyes and fear. And that was 10 years after he started in Stampede. Bryan does have those distinguishing traits, but they needed working out. Garcia's had 4 years, this is his first big chance, so there will be lots he still needs to work out, so being mentored by someone who was in the same place and has done this journey, maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't but it's putting the pieces in the best possible place to get it to work and help him find that.
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pinja
Unicron
Posts: 3,032
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Post by pinja on Feb 8, 2022 15:22:48 GMT -5
I think there's a big difference between being bland and having no personality. Although, noone really has no personality. Some just shine through more than others. I'd say what's often described as the intangible it-factor is the same as not being bland. Guys like Danielson, like Bret Hart and maybe Garcia aren't like that. They don't have that intangible quality. But what they have is at least equally valueable - a tangible personality. Danielson is a real person and a wrestler and there's no dividing what's making him him and what's making him a grade A wrestler. It's naked authenticity and what we see is a rock solid person with beliefs, interests, strenghts, weaknesses. Everybody has that to a degree, but most also know the struggle with being authentic about your more deviating traits. Danielson's tangible deviating traits make him so outstanding. Bret was very similar to that, because since him I've never witnessed any wrestler with an equal sense of desperation in his work. I can't transition this to Garcia, thinking about this feels more like being an old man trying to tell a prodigy that it's not about being good early on, but to see yourself in your work. It does take time to work out how to express that. Watch Bret in like, 1986 and he's the same guy but he couldn't get it out, hence putting him with Jimmy and Anvil, who could cover the personality part, hence his trademark sunglasses, hiding his eyes and fear. And that was 10 years after he started in Stampede. Bryan does have those distinguishing traits, but they needed working out. Garcia's had 4 years, this is his first big chance, so there will be lots he still needs to work out, so being mentored by someone who was in the same place and has done this journey, maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't but it's putting the pieces in the best possible place to get it to work and help him find that. I can get on board with that.
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Post by eJm on Feb 8, 2022 15:26:30 GMT -5
I think there's a big difference between being bland and having no personality. Although, noone really has no personality. Some just shine through more than others. I'd say what's often described as the intangible it-factor is the same as not being bland. Guys like Danielson, like Bret Hart and maybe Garcia aren't like that. They don't have that intangible quality. But what they have is at least equally valueable - a tangible personality. Danielson is a real person and a wrestler and there's no dividing what's making him him and what's making him a grade A wrestler. It's naked authenticity and what we see is a rock solid person with beliefs, interests, strenghts, weaknesses. Everybody has that to a degree, but most also know the struggle with being authentic about your more deviating traits. Danielson's tangible deviating traits make him so outstanding. Bret was very similar to that, because since him I've never witnessed any wrestler with an equal sense of desperation in his work. I can't transition this to Garcia, thinking about this feels more like being an old man trying to tell a prodigy that it's not about being good early on, but to see yourself in your work. I think I get what you mean now. Like, I think Garcia's trait, to me, is that he's got a good sense of awareness of what he's doing when he's doing a move to you but then that isn't the same thing as what Danielson and Hart had/have where Danielson can get in someone's head (ala Page, Suzuki, HHH etc) and Hart plans a strategy around an opponent's weaknesses rather than their strengths (Michaels, Diesel, Flair etc). And as Futureraven: Beelzebruv rightfully pointed out, Bret and Bryan learned a lot of the finer traits of showmanship from being in the WWE, something Garcia hasn't done or likely doesn't really have much of a chance of at the moment. But he's got enough of those people around him to help get that (I don't think I've seen a wrestling locker room so full of veterans from different eras that you can go to, it's kind of crazy).
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,900
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Post by Kalmia on Feb 8, 2022 18:36:19 GMT -5
I think Garcia is a little bland, but he was in a skit on BTE a few weeks ago and showed a comic timing and skill that hasn't yet shown itself in the ring. Some guys just need /that/ angle to unlock it, and then the sky is the limit for them.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 8, 2022 19:50:12 GMT -5
It's the path that a lot of wrestlers take; they get the physical stuff down early in their career when they're young and most able to build those parts, and then personality and such is something they develop over time, because it's just easier to learn how to do moves on somebody than how to project personality and know how to do things like speak compellingly. Those are two very different talents and some people don't start off with the latter one at all.
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Post by Susan "Poison" Candy on Feb 9, 2022 21:18:33 GMT -5
CM Punk: Honey Badger
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