|
Post by The Rick Jericho on Feb 14, 2022 20:55:38 GMT -5
He had his absence from 2004-2012, but even that short run, he was looking to be an all-time great.
And the run from 2012 to today, he's done everything possible. Breaking the Undertaker's streak was already enough, but he's got so many more accolades under his belt.
So how come, when the all-time greats are brought up, even by WWE, you hear the same names. Austin, Hogan, Rock, Bruno, Andre, but never Lesnar.
Is he considered to you as a possible mention for the Greatest WWE Superstar ever?
|
|
Wieners=$$$
Hank Scorpio
Gif Master Extraordinaire
I Miss You Peanut😥
Posts: 6,064
|
Post by Wieners=$$$ on Feb 14, 2022 21:09:52 GMT -5
I'm sure many would say that Brock Lesnar is their favorite wrestler, but even a good portion of them might second guess calling him "best ever." Especially when compared to some of the examples the OP used.
Memorable moments and accomplishments. Sure.
I suppose, for me. He's just so, f***ing meh at times. Considering his actual potential as an athlete, he phones it in too much for me to call him the best.
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 14, 2022 21:20:39 GMT -5
He's incredible at what he does when he's into it. Crazy strong, very underrated seller and bumper at times, and great comic timing with his promos, especially in recent months in this babyface run.
But it's hard to get past what Lesnar represents in the bigger scheme of things being the mercenary that comes in only for the big paycheck and the big shows and getting all the benefits that go with it at the expense of the guys there all-year round.
|
|
|
Post by Starshine on Feb 14, 2022 21:36:50 GMT -5
I think most people would admit he's one of the best ever. But they also resent him for being a big focal point for WWE's cyclical booking patterns that ultimately go nowhere, which isn't his fault. He just does what he's told to do and makes big bucks for it. I don't blame the guy for taking advantage of that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2022 21:37:36 GMT -5
He's incredible at what he does when he's into it. Crazy strong, very underrated seller and bumper at times, and great comic timing with his promos, especially in recent months in this babyface run. But it's hard to get past what Lesnar represents in the bigger scheme of things being the mercenary that comes in only for the big paycheck and the big shows and getting all the benefits that go with it at the expense of the guys there all-year round. I kinda hate that, too, but at the same time, Brock's making that money for doing minimal dates. It's what nearly all of us aspire to: maximum payoff for minimal effort.
|
|
|
Post by rnrk supports BLM on Feb 14, 2022 21:48:00 GMT -5
Part of it's that there's no time you can really point to Brock being the big standard-bearer face of the promotion. His first run was shaping up into that, but he left too fast for it to stick. No one can credibly say Brock Lesnar was a bigger deal to '00s WWE overall than Cena. By the time he came back after making it big in UFC, he was doing a handful of matches a year as a special attraction.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2022 21:53:52 GMT -5
When I think of Lesnar I don't think of him as a talent, I think of him as "booking" first and foremost. Before his return in 2012 yeah, I saw him as a talent first but that's changed. What he represents to WWE as a whole's overtaken anything else. Besides that I never saw him as the lead headlining star. Sure, he had a few months after he beat Rock but that's about it. He always seemed like a "big boss who takes over before the main character dethrones him" type of character and that remains today because for as bad as his booking's been, it's been solely for him to face the main character aka Roman Reigns.
Like, when I read all of those names in the opening post, nowhere did I think of booking and the closest one was Bruno and that's only because most of what they talk about with him has been that reign. Still I know of who he is and that was that he was The Guy in his era. Lesnar ain't been that.
Lesnar's like the Triple H of his era when it comes to placement. The guy who works with The Guy. The difference is Trips put over guys while Brock don't.
|
|
|
Post by cassonova on Feb 14, 2022 21:54:48 GMT -5
I think it's due to Brock never being a flag bearer for the company. Yes, he's accomplished much, but, especially once he returned, Brock was never the guy that advertising was based around. He would make his appearance, then eff off for a couple of month, while Seth, Roman, etc. were being marketed for shows and what not. When we combine that with the perceived sense of Brock entitlement, people don't focus on the accomplishments or skills.
|
|
|
Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 14, 2022 22:48:16 GMT -5
Honestly I've never even consider giving him that label because 1), so often he can't be bothered to put in the slightest bit of effort, and 2), his booking and the fallout from it over the years is arguably the single most destructive thing in the history of wrestling in terms of putting on watchable television.
|
|
CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,083
|
Post by CMWaters on Feb 14, 2022 22:52:35 GMT -5
Part of it's that there's no time you can really point to Brock being the big standard-bearer face of the promotion. His first run was shaping up into that, but he left too fast for it to stick. No one can credibly say Brock Lesnar was a bigger deal to '00s WWE overall than Cena. By the time he came back after making it big in UFC, he was doing a handful of matches a year as a special attraction. Honestly the closest time I can think he could be considered it was the late 2002/early 2003 build up to WrestleMania XIX. Winning the Rumble then getting the last match of that Mania (despite posters promoting Hogan/McMahon more). But after that match they pushed it back, and he rarely if ever got the last match of the show (since this was in the height of HHH's 'top of the mountain' run and also Goldberg was coming in around this time).
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 14, 2022 23:06:20 GMT -5
For an example of booking that isn't just griping about the stories being told, how many of Brocks accolades have involved title reigns where he's gone for long stretches of time? We've seen it every time they put gold on the guy and he's the absentee champion, sometimes for months at a time. Maybe that sort of thing could have worked in the Hogan days--where even then Hogan was burning ass on the house shows that were still the primary product, so you saw him--but there's no way you can get away with that in the modern era. Austin was there week in, week out, putting on segments that people remember years later. Bruno worked those famous ten years like a champion and he delivered. Brock doesn't really deliver. Sometimes he politicks his way out of even pretending to deliver, like the ill-fated Ambrose match.
Brock is a heavily decorated guy during an era where nothing is memorable and nothing leaves an impression, and his segments often turn out the laziest side of a pretty lazily put together production. As good as Brock is, he's never gone to that next step in what he does. It's like asking why people don't consider (band) better than The Beatles when all the members are objectively better musicians. It's not really about that in that way. Being the best ever isn't just about being on top,. it's about what you do when you're on top and how much of an impression you leave on people in the process.
|
|
|
Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 14, 2022 23:12:29 GMT -5
I'd say lack of longevity is a big factor. He worked for two years full time and has been doing part time ever since he came back and had a real mixed bag with some highs and some lows (although the latter is usually Vince's fault). He's had great matches and has a ton of star power. But there have just been guys with either better matches or were better talkers or were bigger stars. He's great but not the best ever.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2022 23:15:55 GMT -5
He's really f***ing great when he's motivated and having fun like he is right now, but he's way too inconsistent for me to say he's the greatest. In kayabe he's obviously up there.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Feb 14, 2022 23:44:18 GMT -5
Talent and performance wise, he’s undoubtedly one of the best ever. I think he doesn’t get talked about in the best ever conversation because he’s been part-time for so long. He was full time for 2 years and has been essentially a special attraction for 10.
|
|
|
Post by ChitownKnight on Feb 15, 2022 2:09:58 GMT -5
He’s mainevented several Manias, is a mainstream star, broke the f***ing streak I’d say he’s below Hogan/Austin/Rock/Cena, but above guys like Bret/HBK/HHH. Maybe Undertaker like status?
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,570
Member is Online
|
Post by Bo Rida on Feb 15, 2022 2:40:16 GMT -5
WWE should be saying that in kayfabe.
Outside of that he's probably the most naturally gifted wrestler but he's never made the most of that creatively. A few highs but mostly miminal effort combined with booking that's a large part of why I don't watch anymore.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 15, 2022 3:20:52 GMT -5
Brock is one of my favourite wrestlers ever and even I don't think he is the best ever.
Brock is a tool, who does what he is told when he asked to. The all time greats were genuine innovators in their own right. Brock has been a part of some innovation but none of it was his idea and if he is less limited than he appears - and within his limited number of talents, he is incredible at all of them - he is never booked to demonstrate that
|
|
thehottag
Don Corleone
We're here for one reason only: fame, fortune, & the World Wrestling Federation Tag Team Champions!
Posts: 1,668
|
Post by thehottag on Feb 15, 2022 3:53:51 GMT -5
It comes down to the fact that Lesnar was never on top when wrestling was mainstream. Guy is definitely a star (both in & out of wrestling) but wrestling itself is cold, so it's hard to put him alongside those who became pop culture icons. Wrestling itself became cool when the likes of Hogan & The Rock were champions (although this is down to more than just one individual, they were the focal point).
In terms of star power, it's better to be anyone during a hot period than the main-event during a cold one. Guys like the Ultimate Warrior & Goldberg only had a relatively brief run in the spotlight, but because it was when wrestling was a big deal, they've become legends in the business.
|
|
|
Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Feb 15, 2022 7:22:38 GMT -5
At his size what he can do, and what he can make look effortless, he's no doubt the greatest athlete ever in wrestling.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 15, 2022 11:26:00 GMT -5
For the most part he can't give you a promo. Every now and then he might give an at best passable one, but there's a reason he's had a mouthpiece almost the entire time.
If you're missing one of the fundamental things that makes a great pro wrestler, you can't be in the convo for best ever.
|
|