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Post by Jindrak Mark on Mar 24, 2022 13:20:56 GMT -5
If you're at the absolute top level of your field in the entertainment business you almost have to murder/rape someone to irreparably damage your reputation and and even that's not always enough. There are so many rock stars who are revered to this day and half of them were knowingly having sex with underage girls. There's a ridiculous amount of Hollywood people who've said something racist/sexist/homophobic, put out a damage control apology and continued on with their career. If you're big enough shit will be overlooked after a while. It doesn't even necessarily have to take time for most people to forget. Hogan has already appeared on a number of shows post scandal and been wildly cheered. Last Wrestlemania was the first time he was booed. Plenty of wrestlers named in speaking out are still working on TV every week and getting cheered by men, women and children. A whole ass TV show about Ric Flair, Scott Hall and Dustin Rhodes sexually assaulting innocent women aired less than a year ago and it didn't effect Hall and Rhodes in the slightest and Flair is still a cult figure, regularly appearing as a special guest at NFL games and being treated like a legend.
In 100 years Hogan will probably still be considered one of if not the most famous wrestler ever and the horrible comments he made will be a footnote if they're even mentioned at all. It's not right but history tells us it's what will happen.
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SmashTV
Dennis Stamp
Big Money, Big Prizes, I Love It!
The Excellence of Allocation
Posts: 4,484
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Post by SmashTV on Mar 24, 2022 14:22:53 GMT -5
A flawed revolutionary who made some of the most significant contributions to the wrestling industry while simultaneously being hugely political behind the scenes.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Mar 24, 2022 14:39:32 GMT -5
The man shouldnt be celebrated in anyway despite how popular he was,he was a master politician who kept down lots of far more talented guys then him,a well known liar and cheat and a 100 percent racist. Once he goes maybe a video package would be fine in tribute but no more then that. He will always be remembered as a big star but to many fans and young and older talent an overrated nasty pos racist. As you can tell I'm not a hulkamaniac! Who did he hold down? Do we have any verifiable proof that he ever held anyone down? EVERY WRESTLER PLAY POLITICS. Why some, like Hogan & HHH have it held against then, and others like HBK & Austin are given free passes, never ceases to amaze me.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Mar 24, 2022 14:48:25 GMT -5
Also... seems like there's a lot of people more pissed that Hogan didn't lose to Bret in 93 or supposedly "killed WCW" then his racist rant.
That he apologized for.
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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Mar 24, 2022 14:54:02 GMT -5
The man shouldnt be celebrated in anyway despite how popular he was,he was a master politician who kept down lots of far more talented guys then him,a well known liar and cheat and a 100 percent racist. Once he goes maybe a video package would be fine in tribute but no more then that. He will always be remembered as a big star but to many fans and young and older talent an overrated nasty pos racist. As you can tell I'm not a hulkamaniac! Who did he hold down? Do we have any verifiable proof that he ever held anyone down? EVERY WRESTLER PLAY POLITICS. Why some, like Hogan & HHH have it held against then, and others like HBK & Austin are given free passes, never ceases to amaze me. I wouldn't say HBK gets a free pass
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Post by genericusername on Mar 24, 2022 15:13:07 GMT -5
Yeah HBK still catches shit from all the politics and temper tantrums from the 1990s.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Mar 24, 2022 15:50:44 GMT -5
If you're at the absolute top level of your field in the entertainment business you almost have to murder/rape someone to irreparably damage your reputation and and even that's not always enough. There are so many rock stars who are revered to this day and half of them were knowingly having sex with underage girls. There's a ridiculous amount of Hollywood people who've said something racist/sexist/homophobic, put out a damage control apology and continued on with their career. If you're big enough shit will be overlooked after a while. It doesn't even necessarily have to take time for most people to forget. Hogan has already appeared on a number of shows post scandal and been wildly cheered. Last Wrestlemania was the first time he was booed. Plenty of wrestlers named in speaking out are still working on TV every week and getting cheered by men, women and children. A whole ass TV show about Ric Flair, Scott Hall and Dustin Rhodes sexually assaulting innocent women aired less than a year ago and it didn't effect Hall and Rhodes in the slightest and Flair is still a cult figure, regularly appearing as a special guest at NFL games and being treated like a legend. In 100 years Hogan will probably still be considered one of if not the most famous wrestler ever and the horrible comments he made will be a footnote if they're even mentioned at all. It's not right but history tells us it's what will happen. Yeah. All this. It SUCKS. But yeah. I don’t think it’s controversial at all to think that’s the way things will play out. It’s hard to determine how much the general population knows and retains about Hogan. Good example was a recent “Best of The Worst” RLM had where they were covering one of Hogans old movies. They don’t follow wrestling at all and were vaguely aware of “something Hogan had done to get cancelled..” but weren’t completely sure. I guess a big factor will be how people react. This threads a good example. Lots are going to remember him for wrasslin and lots are gonna remember him for that tape and the comments and..maybe even the other stuff.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,716
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Post by Glitch on Mar 24, 2022 16:01:35 GMT -5
Time isn't gonna erase his flaws. In fact it's more likely to bring it out in view. If Walt Disney's anti-semitism and treatment of people has become more apparent over the years, Hogan sure as hell isn't gonna be immune.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,108
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Post by tafkaga on Mar 24, 2022 16:06:36 GMT -5
Hogan will be remembered first as a pop culture icon of the 80's, and second as the white trash human he turned out to be in the 2000's.
The comparison to Warrior doesn't work very well, because in 50 year's time Hogan's name will be coming up as often as Lou Thesz and Gorgeous George comes up in our conversations, whereas Warrior's name will be on par with Hans Schmidt or Dick Hutton.
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Post by eJm on Mar 24, 2022 16:22:58 GMT -5
Time isn't gonna erase his flaws. In fact it's more likely to bring it out in view. If Walt Disney's anti-semitism and treatment of people has become more apparent over the years, Hogan sure as hell isn't gonna be immune. Not to change topics too much but did more come from the anti-semitism? Because from looking it up, it seemed it came from an bitter ex employee’s book and nowhere else. It’s different from the hatred of unions and workers treatment because it felt like everyone Disney worked with had a story like that.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Mar 24, 2022 17:09:12 GMT -5
If you're at the absolute top level of your field in the entertainment business you almost have to murder/rape someone to irreparably damage your reputation and and even that's not always enough. There are so many rock stars who are revered to this day and half of them were knowingly having sex with underage girls. There's a ridiculous amount of Hollywood people who've said something racist/sexist/homophobic, put out a damage control apology and continued on with their career. If you're big enough shit will be overlooked after a while. It doesn't even necessarily have to take time for most people to forget. Hogan has already appeared on a number of shows post scandal and been wildly cheered. Last Wrestlemania was the first time he was booed. Plenty of wrestlers named in speaking out are still working on TV every week and getting cheered by men, women and children. A whole ass TV show about Ric Flair, Scott Hall and Dustin Rhodes sexually assaulting innocent women aired less than a year ago and it didn't effect Hall and Rhodes in the slightest and Flair is still a cult figure, regularly appearing as a special guest at NFL games and being treated like a legend. In 100 years Hogan will probably still be considered one of if not the most famous wrestler ever and the horrible comments he made will be a footnote if they're even mentioned at all. It's not right but history tells us it's what will happen. With the speaking out shit, I feel like anyone that committed anything major or had any real proof got cancelled. Matt Riddle and Austin Theory seem more like a he said she said kind of thing and with Theory I heard the girl lied. With Scott Hall he seemed to be in a black out drunk state (which still should be punished btw) but I don’t think he knowingly did any harm like Flair. With Dustin didn’t he try helping the flight attendant? Flair unfortunately I think will be a part of the spotlight at some point again or atleast glorified after he passes. In a weird way also, a lot of these terrible people that became famous (or became terrible through fame) have inspired plenty of children, maybe even adults through hard times. As a Cena fan growing up I looked up to him. But with Hogan he pretty much insulted an entire race of people. A lot of whom (like probably the new day) looked up to him as a kid and their hearts shattered when they found the tapes.
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 24, 2022 17:24:22 GMT -5
What will save him is of course nostalgia.
People having fond memories of Hulk Hogan the character will go up against reminders of what Terry Bollea the person did.
And I can see some people try to defend him by saying, well at least he didn't physically harm others or murder like other legends, etc.
And don't get me started on the backstage nightmares.
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ghost
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,743
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Post by ghost on Mar 24, 2022 17:28:31 GMT -5
There seems to be a lot of apologism for Hogan's rascism in here. Not naming any names, but a lot of people here seem a bit too eager to casually dismiss it. To be fair, the guy returning at WM to a hero's welcome did something 10 times worse than being illegally recorded saying stupid shit in his home. Which leads to my bigger point, I think most people will be able to separate the performer from the person. Harder to do that with someone like Benoit. In reality, being a closet racist might be the on the tame side compared to what most wrestlers from the 80s/90s have done.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Mar 24, 2022 17:33:12 GMT -5
There seems to be a lot of apologism for Hogan's rascism in here. Not naming any names, but a lot of people here seem a bit too eager to casually dismiss it. To be fair, the guy returning at WM to a hero's welcome did something 10 times worse than being illegally recorded saying stupid shit in his home. Which leads to my bigger point, I think most people will be able to separate the performer from the person. Harder to do that with someone like Benoit. In reality, being a closet racist might be the on the tame side compared to what most wrestlers from the 80s/90s have done. Yep. Austin beat his wife. He's apologized, but still.... Then there's Tyson, and although I personally think he's innocent,he was convicted of rape. But Hulk Hogan didn't lose to Bret, or supposedly politicked in WCW... so f*** him.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Mar 24, 2022 17:35:35 GMT -5
If you're at the absolute top level of your field in the entertainment business you almost have to murder/rape someone to irreparably damage your reputation and and even that's not always enough. There are so many rock stars who are revered to this day and half of them were knowingly having sex with underage girls. There's a ridiculous amount of Hollywood people who've said something racist/sexist/homophobic, put out a damage control apology and continued on with their career. If you're big enough shit will be overlooked after a while. It doesn't even necessarily have to take time for most people to forget. Hogan has already appeared on a number of shows post scandal and been wildly cheered. Last Wrestlemania was the first time he was booed. Plenty of wrestlers named in speaking out are still working on TV every week and getting cheered by men, women and children. A whole ass TV show about Ric Flair, Scott Hall and Dustin Rhodes sexually assaulting innocent women aired less than a year ago and it didn't effect Hall and Rhodes in the slightest and Flair is still a cult figure, regularly appearing as a special guest at NFL games and being treated like a legend. In 100 years Hogan will probably still be considered one of if not the most famous wrestler ever and the horrible comments he made will be a footnote if they're even mentioned at all. It's not right but history tells us it's what will happen. With the speaking out shit, I feel like anyone that committed anything major or had any real proof got cancelled. Matt Riddle and Austin Theory seem more like a he said she said kind of thing and with Theory I heard the girl lied. With Scott Hall he seemed to be in a black out drunk state (which still should be punished btw) but I don’t think he knowingly did any harm like Flair. With Dustin didn’t he try helping the flight attendant? Flair unfortunately I think will be a part of the spotlight at some point again or atleast glorified after he passes. Most people seem to only remember the serenading Terri over the PA system thing with Dustin which is creepy but he was accused of actual sexual assault by the flight attendants along with Flair and Hall. Strangely (or maybe not so strangely considering he works for AEW who provide the narrator and multiple talking heads for the show), DSOTR barely made mention of Dustin's more severe allegations and even somewhat tried to portray him as a heroic figure on the flight. From the official lawsuit:
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,106
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 24, 2022 17:36:58 GMT -5
Yeah HBK still catches shit from all the politics and temper tantrums from the 1990s. Well that, and for as much as HBK tries to keep himself under control and not act like his prick 90s self, a little bit of it still manages to escape from time to time. As far as Hogan? There's not a whole lot I can add to the "Hogan will be remembered for his importance, but also will be (justifiably) vilified for the inexcusable things he's said and done." line of thought.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Mar 24, 2022 17:42:32 GMT -5
After he immediately passes there will be a couple of years where only the good things are remembered and emphasized. Once there's enough distance, the fact that he was a racist-ass political animal will reassert itself and we'll be back to where he's at today: venerated by WWE or whatever Saudi shell company it exists as by that point, derided by those that remember the actual history.
The Michael Jackson accusations are the biggest recent example of this phenomenon in the entertainment world. His death sort of restored his legend and stature, then after about a half-decade people started reexamining everything again and now there's a perpetual asterisk whenever we discuss what he meant to the music industry and popular culture. On a smaller scale and more relevant to wrestling, there's Warrior. He was rebranded a saint after his shock death, but now the cloud of his vile homophobia shadows whatever sentimentality most found for the man. Both will never be erased from the annals of their industries, but there will always be that "but..." attached to their legacies.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,959
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Post by chazraps on Mar 24, 2022 17:44:35 GMT -5
Also... seems like there's a lot of people more pissed that Hogan didn't lose to Bret in 93 or supposedly "killed WCW" then his racist rant. That he apologized for. You're forgetting how absolutely awful his apology was, followed by the racist tweet he retweeted after and all the actions since that show he doesn't understand the gravity of what he did.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Mar 24, 2022 17:50:09 GMT -5
Also... seems like there's a lot of people more pissed that Hogan didn't lose to Bret in 93 or supposedly "killed WCW" then his racist rant. That he apologized for. You're forgetting how absolutely awful his apology was, followed by the racist tweet he retweeted after and all the actions since that show he doesn't understand the gravity of what he did. What was awful about his apology? He admitted what he said, said it was a low point in his life, and apologized. Some people will never be able to forgive him, I get that. But he apologized. Multiple times. I feel like anyone else wouldn't still be hated as he is. And yes, the tweet wasn't a good look, but I understood the point he was making. Look, Hogan isn't perfect, noone is, but people are ruthless when it comes to him, but glorify others who did just as bad or worse.
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 24, 2022 17:51:34 GMT -5
After he immediately passes there will be a couple of years where only the good things are remembered and emphasized. Once there's enough distance, the fact that he was a racist-ass political animal will reassert itself and we'll be back to where he's at today: venerated by WWE or whatever Saudi shell company it exists as by that point, derided by those that remember the actual history. That's how it usually works. Unless someone like a sponsor steps in, or it's involved in a scandal covered well by the media, WWE likes to try and get away with honoring the on screen characters as long as they can. Two words... WARRIOR AWARD. I get it, "we're separating the character from the person" safeguard. Heck, fans do it regularly too. Actually, it's one of two ways it usually works. Either you don't speak ill of the dead, or the dirt is dug up instantly. There is no middle ground.
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