Four Kings(AJPW) vs. Big 4 of Attitude Era

[MrElijah]

With HHH's retirement, it brought forth a question I've been meaning to ask: which group of Four was the best? One side are Four Kings of Heaven, Masters of the King's Road style of Wrestling. The other, 4 diverse guys who meshed in a way, when they came together, magic happened.

So who's the better 4 in terms of wrestling ability and total catalog of great matches?

[Deleted]

Very hard to compare the two.

WWE's 4 were more well rounded as characters. They could sell a storyline and then finish the story in the ring.

Kawada, Kobashi, Taue and Misawa were different. They were pure "pro wrestlers". They didn't have to worry about acting or being "entertainers".

In terms of match quality... AJPWs wins. Their matches are to be studied for years for people aspiring to be wrestlers. Those matches are proper works of art.

But in terms of overall enjoyment and excitement? The Attitude Era wins for me. It was "Can't Miss" during those days.

[Wieners=$$$]

Depends what you value more; Spectacle vs. Workrate

[thegame415]

I don't even know who the Four Kings are, so...

[DSR]

Mar 25, 2022 21:14:01 GMT -5 thegame415 said:

I don't even know who the Four Kings are, so...

George Clooney, Mark Wahlberg, Ice Cube, and Spike Jonze.

[Mike Bockwinkel]

John, Paul, George, and Ringo

[Mozenrath]

I voted for WWE's due to more familiarity and investment, but I can certainly appreciate AJPW matches of that era. It's kind of wild how King's Road's influence on wrestling has been as far reaching as it has been even with puro being fairly niche among US wrestling fans (though, less so over time).

Of course, that's nothing new to wrestling when you think about how big an influence Memphis booking ideas had on wrestling despite not being a market with the kind of reach WWF had.

[lucas_lee]

The Four Kings influence is felt to this day with the American style and workrate IMO

[GodzillaIsMyMonster]

This is a tough one honestly. The Four Kings have probably the greatest catalog of matches ever from a pure sports/realness aspect.

But the Attitude era, in both WWE & WCW, was insane as far story lines and big moments.

I think it really depends on your preference. I love a good match, but a good story makes everything better.

My favorite match of all time is Hogan vs Savage at WM5. It's a good work rate match considering who's in it, but the story elevates it even more.

So... id go AE.... but id listen to the argument on the other side.

[beefy]

YOU MARKS.

YOU CLOWNS.

It’s Ben, Reed, Sue and Johnny, all day, everyday.

Can Austin burst into flames?
Ever seen Taue throw a car, or go toe to toe with the Hulk?
Triple H never turned invisible. Should have, never did.
The only thing Kawada ever stretched was the young boys at the Dojo!

Criminal voting process here, I’m appalled and writing many strongly worded letters to my senator now

[A Platypus Rave]

Only one of these three beat Moleman, Kang the Conquerer and Dr. Doom... so...

[Dub H]

If Triple H is in your big four it already cant touch the Four Kings.

Trips is the definition of B+.

Im sure some people will argue that the Japanese wrestlers are all " workrate" but nah they were charismatic and told awesome stories. At least the matches I saw.

[JIMBOB]

Mar 25, 2022 21:14:01 GMT -5 thegame415 said:

I don't even know who the Four Kings are, so...

M. Bison, Sagat, Vega and Balrog.

[GodzillaIsMyMonster]

Mar 27, 2022 1:25:03 GMT -5 Dub H said:

If Triple H is in your big four it already cant touch the Four Kings.

Trips is the definition of B+.

Im sure some people will argue that the Japanese wrestlers are all " workrate" but nah they were charismatic and told awesome stories. At least the matches I saw.

I'd argue, in ring, HHH, especially 99-01, was just as good in ring as Kobashi and Misawa. 

[fw91]

Mar 25, 2022 21:14:01 GMT -5 thegame415 said:

I don't even know who the Four Kings are, so...

I think that this point shouldn’t be ignored. No disrespect intended, but what goes on in the Eastern world isn’t really all that popular around these parts. That’s why some talent who were big in the Japan don’t have matched success. It isn’t always bad booking. If you didn’t watch NXT, Nakamura and Asuka don’t have the same appeal as a Becky or Roman. Sure booking goes a long way, but a less hardcore audience isn’t going to pop for Nakamura or Asuka just because they are Nakamura and Asuka.

[A Platypus Rave]

Mar 27, 2022 13:31:08 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Mar 25, 2022 21:14:01 GMT -5 thegame415 said:

I don't even know who the Four Kings are, so...

I think that this point shouldn’t be ignored. No disrespect intended, but what goes on in the Eastern world isn’t really all that popular around these parts. That’s why some talent who were big in the Japan don’t have matched success. It isn’t always bad booking. If you didn’t watch NXT, Nakamura and Asuka don’t have the same appeal as a Becky or Roman. Sure booking goes a long way, but a less hardcore audience isn’t going to pop for Nakamura or Asuka just because they are Nakamura and Asuka.

Asuka and NAkamura are consistently over just about everywhere they go... at least when the WWE let them actually do something.

[Deleted]

Mar 27, 2022 13:31:08 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Mar 25, 2022 21:14:01 GMT -5 thegame415 said:

I don't even know who the Four Kings are, so...

I think that this point shouldn’t be ignored. No disrespect intended, but what goes on in the Eastern world isn’t really all that popular around these parts. That’s why some talent who were big in the Japan don’t have matched success. It isn’t always bad booking. If you didn’t watch NXT, Nakamura and Asuka don’t have the same appeal as a Becky or Roman. Sure booking goes a long way, but a less hardcore audience isn’t going to pop for Nakamura or Asuka just because they are Nakamura and Asuka.

Where's that Russo quote when I need it to underline what a dumb take this is. Also that's straight not true on Asuka and Nakamura was booked like shit and still stayed over.

[fw91]

Mar 27, 2022 14:17:24 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

Mar 27, 2022 13:31:08 GMT -5 fw91 said:

I think that this point shouldn’t be ignored. No disrespect intended, but what goes on in the Eastern world isn’t really all that popular around these parts. That’s why some talent who were big in the Japan don’t have matched success. It isn’t always bad booking. If you didn’t watch NXT, Nakamura and Asuka don’t have the same appeal as a Becky or Roman. Sure booking goes a long way, but a less hardcore audience isn’t going to pop for Nakamura or Asuka just because they are Nakamura and Asuka.

Where's that Russo quote when I need it to underline what a dumb take this is. Also that's straight not true on Asuka and Nakamura was booked like shit and still stayed over.

You’re not wrong, but all the same there’s something to the being famous over there doesn’t mean automatic fame over here

[Deleted]

Mar 27, 2022 14:19:24 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Mar 27, 2022 14:17:24 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

Where's that Russo quote when I need it to underline what a dumb take this is. Also that's straight not true on Asuka and Nakamura was booked like shit and still stayed over.

You’re not wrong, but all the same there’s something to the being famous over there doesn’t mean automatic fame over here

Sure, it's also irrelevant to the ability of foreign names to get over. Being an American doesn't make you famous there either, being good at what you do does. By pidgeon holing an individual wrestler by purely their foreigner status, which you absolutely did do, is a bad take.

[ChitownKnight]

Are we not considering Taker part of the Attitude top 4? I feel like he’s done more than Foley