Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,952
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Apr 27, 2022 1:28:32 GMT -5
Imagine if Shawn would have pissed of Big Poppa Pump? The beating Bret gave him backstage would have been nothing! It's worth noting, while they were the same size, the old timey guys like Watts, Strongbow, Lanza, all loved Bret because he had the pedigree of the Dungeon and could look after himself, Shawn lost a clump of hair and threw a hissy fit.
|
|
|
Post by johnnyk9 on Apr 27, 2022 10:00:57 GMT -5
I couldn’t see him fitting into The NWO at the time
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 27, 2022 11:00:56 GMT -5
You thought the nWo didn't do jobs BEFORE...
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 27, 2022 11:03:22 GMT -5
Titan would have sued for breach of contract. Shawn was pissed because he *didn't* have an out.
|
|
salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,007
|
Post by salz4life on Apr 27, 2022 11:43:09 GMT -5
I know this is a weird way to look at it but him injuring his back in 1998 was a good thing because it forced him to take time off and remove himself from the culture in WWF which wasn’t helpful to him. As the poster above me said he’d have died if he went to WCW because yes he was a dick in WWF there was chance of people there getting him help. Honestly, it was probably the best thing to happen for both him and WWF(E). Both sides needed a break from one another. I know he stuck around for another year or two after the injury, but still.
|
|
salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,007
|
Post by salz4life on Apr 27, 2022 11:44:18 GMT -5
A sober HBK in WCW would have slayed it. So many guys he could have had amazing matches with. Instead, he was a walking pharmacy. The issue still would be the wall, brother... There's no way Shawn would've done the job for The Wall.
|
|
thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,659
|
Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 27, 2022 12:26:34 GMT -5
To address a different part of the OP - I don't think Bret vs Stone Cold at WrestleMania XIV would've drawn as well as Shawn vs. Stone Cold. It had been done to death in 1996-97 and would feel like a bit a rehash. Also, I don't think the Mike Tyson dynamic would have worked as well. Tyson fit well with DX. With Bret? "Listen here Stone Cold Steve Austin. Here's another guy who knows your stones are cold. Unlike you, he's jam up guy. He's Mike Tyson!" Also, would Bret still be the pro Canadian heel? Would Tyson renounce America? Bret is probably my favorite wrestler ever, but swapping Shawn for Bret at WrestleMania XIV sounds like a disaster.
|
|
|
Post by cornettesracket on Apr 27, 2022 12:34:17 GMT -5
To address a different part of the OP - I don't think Bret vs Stone Cold at WrestleMania XIV would've drawn as well as Shawn vs. Stone Cold. It had been done to death in 1996-97 and would feel like a bit a rehash. Also, I don't think the Mike Tyson dynamic would have worked as well. Tyson fit well with DX. With Bret? "Listen here Stone Cold Steve Austin. Here's another guy who knows your stones are cold. Unlike you, he's jam up guy. He's Mike Tyson!" Also, would Bret still be the pro Canadian heel? Would Tyson renounce America? Bret is probably my favorite wrestler ever, but swapping Shawn for Bret at WrestleMania XIV sounds like a disaster. It does sound clunky as hell. I mean the match itself would’ve been better it wouldn’t have been two injured wrestlers in the main event. The match as it happened was okay until Shawn hit the turnbuckle HARD and you could see the change. I know HBK is known for not wanting to do jobs for people by exaggerating injures but imo it was clear his back was in bits.
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 27, 2022 12:53:17 GMT -5
To address a different part of the OP - I don't think Bret vs Stone Cold at WrestleMania XIV would've drawn as well as Shawn vs. Stone Cold. It had been done to death in 1996-97 and would feel like a bit a rehash. Also, I don't think the Mike Tyson dynamic would have worked as well. Tyson fit well with DX. With Bret? "Listen here Stone Cold Steve Austin. Here's another guy who knows your stones are cold. Unlike you, he's jam up guy. He's Mike Tyson!" Also, would Bret still be the pro Canadian heel? Would Tyson renounce America? Bret is probably my favorite wrestler ever, but swapping Shawn for Bret at WrestleMania XIV sounds like a disaster. So is "jam up guy(s) a Canadian thing or western Canadian thing or just a Bret Hart thing? Because he says it a lot.
|
|
agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,267
|
Post by agent817 on Apr 27, 2022 13:04:59 GMT -5
Imagine if Shawn would have pissed of Big Poppa Pump? The beating Bret gave him backstage would have been nothing! Not just Scott Steiner, but you also had guys like Finlay, Regal, Malenko, Barbarian, Meng, etc. Yeah, it wouldn't have been a good idea for Shawn to piss off those guys.
|
|
|
Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Apr 27, 2022 13:56:07 GMT -5
As much as we can fantasy book his arrival there. He was so messed up, hanging out with Hall, Nash and Syxx again would probably end him. I think HBK owes alot to Hunter being clean and sober while they were D-X. A sober HBK in WCW would have slayed it. So many guys he could have had amazing matches with. Instead, he was a walking pharmacy. He would have had some fantastic matches, but they would have meant nothing week in and week out as he would have been relegated to mid card status. He maybe would have taken the place of Raven, giving the US Title to Goldberg on HIS way to the top.
|
|
Squirrel Master
Hank Scorpio
"Then the Squirrel Master came out of left field and told me I'm his bitch!"
Posts: 6,648
|
Post by Squirrel Master on Apr 27, 2022 15:26:28 GMT -5
Does OP really think that if Michaels went to WCW, there he would “wreck havoc”? Maybe he’d get what Daniel Puder got in WWE.
|
|
|
Post by sungod2020 on Apr 27, 2022 15:30:03 GMT -5
To address a different part of the OP - I don't think Bret vs Stone Cold at WrestleMania XIV would've drawn as well as Shawn vs. Stone Cold. It had been done to death in 1996-97 and would feel like a bit a rehash. Also, I don't think the Mike Tyson dynamic would have worked as well. Tyson fit well with DX. With Bret? "Listen here Stone Cold Steve Austin. Here's another guy who knows your stones are cold. Unlike you, he's jam up guy. He's Mike Tyson!" Also, would Bret still be the pro Canadian heel? Would Tyson renounce America? Bret is probably my favorite wrestler ever, but swapping Shawn for Bret at WrestleMania XIV sounds like a disaster. If not Bret, who else could it have been without Shawn being there? Nobody else on the roster(except for The Undertaker who was feuding with Kane) had main event credibility at the time. I figure with Austin defeating Bret Hart at Wrestlemania XIV it would be allow Austin to finally get a proper victory over The Hitman and can be seen as the passing of the torch. How Mike Tyson would fit in there is another story. Maybe he can be a neutral outside enforcer to make sure The Hart Foundation(who would be staying with him since there was no screwjob) dosen't interfere. After that, Bret Hart can take a hiatus while the timeline picks up as it did before(feud with Vince and his Corporate lackies). I'm sure they could've find a way and still end up drawing.
|
|
thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,659
|
Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 27, 2022 16:35:46 GMT -5
To address a different part of the OP - I don't think Bret vs Stone Cold at WrestleMania XIV would've drawn as well as Shawn vs. Stone Cold. It had been done to death in 1996-97 and would feel like a bit a rehash. Also, I don't think the Mike Tyson dynamic would have worked as well. Tyson fit well with DX. With Bret? "Listen here Stone Cold Steve Austin. Here's another guy who knows your stones are cold. Unlike you, he's jam up guy. He's Mike Tyson!" Also, would Bret still be the pro Canadian heel? Would Tyson renounce America? Bret is probably my favorite wrestler ever, but swapping Shawn for Bret at WrestleMania XIV sounds like a disaster. If not Bret, who else could it have been without Shawn being there? Nobody else on the roster(except for The Undertaker who was feuding with Kane) had main event credibility at the time. I figure with Austin defeating Bret Hart at Wrestlemania XIV it would be allow Austin to finally get a proper victory over The Hitman and can be seen as the passing of the torch. How Mike Tyson would fit in there is another story. Maybe he can be a neutral outside enforcer to make sure The Hart Foundation(who would be staying with him since there was no screwjob) dosen't interfere. After that, Bret Hart can take a hiatus while the timeline picks up as it did before(feud with Vince and his Corporate lackies). I'm sure they could've find a way and still end up drawing. Oh yeah I'm sure they could've made it work. It's Bret Hart - any match with Bret Hart could work. But I think the way it happened in real life was the perfect vehicle to launch Austin and the WWF back into the mainstream. I don't think it would've flopped necessarily with Bret Hart, but Shawn Michaels with DX was the best possible opponent(s) for that scenario and the perfect way to involve Tyson. For casual/new fans, DX were just so easily hateable and their immature nature was a perfect contrast to the no-nonsense ass kicker that was Stone Cold Steve Austin. And it allowed Mike Tyson to lean into his heel persona, which was probably at it's peak in 1998. For wrestling fans, Austin and Shawn was a pretty fresh matchup. They fought at the prior King of the Ring in thrown together match that didn't mean anything a week later, but that's it on TV. Lots had happened in the 9 months since. It felt brand new. I know at the time, I was dying to see that match. I just don't see the package working as well as it did with Bret Hart or anyone else in place of Shawn. Also, I think Tyson's face turn at the end only works with Shawn Michaels. Again, Tyson was not a beloved guy in 1998, but even casuals saw him next to this dancing prick and was like "All right Mike, knock this clown out". I don't think you get that with Bret. Also, Shawn leaving the next night allowed them to fully plunge themselves into a new generation of stars - no pun intended. In this scenario, Bret likely isn't going anywhere, so what do you do after Mania? Do you keep doing Bret and the Hart Foundation vs Austin? They had worked a lot by then. And the rest of the Hart Foundation was beyond stale at that point. Even with Owen's gimmick change in the real timeline, that cooled off really fast (thought admittedly he was done no favors by the booking). I don't know. I don't doubt they could've found a good story to tell with Bret vs Steve again, but I don't think it meshes as well with Tyson, and because of that I don't think they do 750,000 buys and set their business on fire without Shawn and then without a summer of Foley, Kane and Taker working with Austin. The WWF really fell ass backwards into the perfect situation.
|
|
|
Post by sportatorium on Apr 27, 2022 17:19:08 GMT -5
He would have been in the NWO doing schtick with Hall, Nash & Walkman. Eventually they would have wanted to try more with him or have him break away to challenge Hogan and as others have stated, Hogan would have pulled the rug out from under him.
|
|
|
Post by sungod2020 on Apr 27, 2022 17:41:43 GMT -5
If not Bret, who else could it have been without Shawn being there? Nobody else on the roster(except for The Undertaker who was feuding with Kane) had main event credibility at the time. I figure with Austin defeating Bret Hart at Wrestlemania XIV it would be allow Austin to finally get a proper victory over The Hitman and can be seen as the passing of the torch. How Mike Tyson would fit in there is another story. Maybe he can be a neutral outside enforcer to make sure The Hart Foundation(who would be staying with him since there was no screwjob) dosen't interfere. After that, Bret Hart can take a hiatus while the timeline picks up as it did before(feud with Vince and his Corporate lackies). I'm sure they could've find a way and still end up drawing. Oh yeah I'm sure they could've made it work. It's Bret Hart - any match with Bret Hart could work. But I think the way it happened in real life was the perfect vehicle to launch Austin and the WWF back into the mainstream. I don't think it would've flopped necessarily with Bret Hart, but Shawn Michaels with DX was the best possible opponent(s) for that scenario and the perfect way to involve Tyson. For casual/new fans, DX were just so easily hateable and their immature nature was a perfect contrast to the no-nonsense ass kicker that was Stone Cold Steve Austin. And it allowed Mike Tyson to lean into his heel persona, which was probably at it's peak in 1998. For wrestling fans, Austin and Shawn was a pretty fresh matchup. They fought at the prior King of the Ring in thrown together match that didn't mean anything a week later, but that's it on TV. Lots had happened in the 9 months since. It felt brand new. I know at the time, I was dying to see that match. I just don't see the package working as well as it did with Bret Hart or anyone else in place of Shawn. Also, I think Tyson's face turn at the end only works with Shawn Michaels. Again, Tyson was not a beloved guy in 1998, but even casuals saw him next to this dancing prick and was like "All right Mike, knock this clown out". I don't think you get that with Bret. Also, Shawn leaving the next night allowed them to fully plunge themselves into a new generation of stars - no pun intended. In this scenario, Bret likely isn't going anywhere, so what do you do after Mania? Do you keep doing Bret and the Hart Foundation vs Austin? They had worked a lot by then. And the rest of the Hart Foundation was beyond stale at that point. Even with Owen's gimmick change in the real timeline, that cooled off really fast (thought admittedly he was done no favors by the booking). I don't know. I don't doubt they could've found a good story to tell with Bret vs Steve again, but I don't think it meshes as well with Tyson, and because of that I don't think they do 750,000 buys and set their business on fire without Shawn and then without a summer of Foley, Kane and Taker working with Austin. The WWF really fell ass backwards into the perfect situation. Well, alot of this is easy to say NOW since hindsight is 20/20, but if you were there at the time with no way of knowing what would happen in the future, it's possible to envision a future with those same stars. By the time Bret left... 1)Austin's star was on the rise and even though he wasn't WWF champion, he was still the main focus of the show. 2)Mankind/Mick Foley was showing character development and becoming a sympathetic figure with fans. He even introduced his two alter egos of Dude Love and Cactus Jack. 3)The seeds of The Undertaker/Kane feud was planted immediately after Wrestlemania, and The Big Red Monster debuted a month before The MSJ happened. 4)The WWF always wanted to push The Rock, and while it failed the first time as a white meat babyface, they reinvented him as a heel with The Nation's help. Again, he turned heel BEFORE Bret left. The only blanks I'm drawing is Triple H since his push was as a result of Shawn's influence and depending on when in 97 he left, they could've even continued it(but without the DX help) or they could've left him to flounder around in the medium-to-upper midcard, demote him, or he(and possibly Chyna) could've just followed Shawn to WCW. It most certainly would butterfly away his marriage to Stephanie that's for sure. You're right about the Hart Foundation(except maybe Owen) outliving their usefulness once the calendar flipped, as influential and prominent as they were in 97, it's VERY hard to book them in 98. I don't know how much more time they had on their contract, but even without the Screwjob, they left at the right time. With Bret staying the best I can do with them is cling onto him until Wrestlemania XIV, and then after that, quietly release them. I don't know how I would use Bret Hart post-Wrestlemania XIV, and you're right, his and eventually Shawn's departure did free up space for the upper midcard and main event scene, so that's why I say it's best if he takes a hiatus afterwards, and then he can come back in a commissioner role like Shawn did. Same scenario, different person. Yes, he still had juice in him as seen in WCW(until that infamous Goldberg match), but creatively, there wasn't anywhere for him to go and he didn't enjoy the direction the F was headed in at the time, so maybe it's best he could've used the remainder of his 20 year contract in a part time role making occasional appearances so he dosen't get too involved with the product. Again this is the best I can do based on the knowledge they had at the time.
|
|
Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,952
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Apr 27, 2022 17:47:35 GMT -5
To address a different part of the OP - I don't think Bret vs Stone Cold at WrestleMania XIV would've drawn as well as Shawn vs. Stone Cold. It had been done to death in 1996-97 and would feel like a bit a rehash. Also, I don't think the Mike Tyson dynamic would have worked as well. Tyson fit well with DX. With Bret? "Listen here Stone Cold Steve Austin. Here's another guy who knows your stones are cold. Unlike you, he's jam up guy. He's Mike Tyson!" Also, would Bret still be the pro Canadian heel? Would Tyson renounce America? Bret is probably my favorite wrestler ever, but swapping Shawn for Bret at WrestleMania XIV sounds like a disaster. So is "jam up guy(s) a Canadian thing or western Canadian thing or just a Bret Hart thing? Because he says it a lot. Just a Bret thing, as far as I know. I only live a couple hours from Bret. It’s not a “thing”.
|
|
thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,659
|
Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 27, 2022 18:04:20 GMT -5
So is "jam up guy(s) a Canadian thing or western Canadian thing or just a Bret Hart thing? Because he says it a lot. Just a Bret thing, as far as I know. I only live a couple hours from Bret. It’s not a “thing”. That begs the question…does Bret think there are jam DOWN guys? And what is ‘jam’ in this context?
|
|
Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,952
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Apr 27, 2022 18:07:46 GMT -5
Just a Bret thing, as far as I know. I only live a couple hours from Bret. It’s not a “thing”. That begs the question…does Bret think there are jam DOWN guys? And what is ‘jam’ in this context? It means he’s a good guy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 19:18:38 GMT -5
He would've 100% overdosed if he was around Hall, X Pac and Nash.
Triple H was the responsible one. He kept him in check. Vince looking over him aswell, probably.
I think he would've died around 1999/2000, as morbid as it sounds.
|
|