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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 5, 2022 18:03:24 GMT -5
This has to be the spottiest archive in the history of wrestling streaming services, missing key parts of ROH's history such as:
-The bulk of their historic events.
-Virtually all of Samoa Joe's title reign including his feud with Punk.
-Literally all of 2007.
-The majority of their compilations
As somebody who got Honor Club largely out of a desire to watch ROH matches I've never seen before I'm more than a little bit disappointed.
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Post by rainandlava on May 6, 2022 18:41:09 GMT -5
I personally don't have Honor Club, but yeah, I read all the stories about how a good chunk of their shows is missing and it's just baffling. (One theory is that the shows from 2002-Early 2009 used music you would here on the radio rather than royalty-free libraries/original compositions for the Wrestlers entrances, which would explain some things). I did hear rumors that some of the original tapes might have been lost or something, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.
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Post by Georgina's Fancy Water on May 6, 2022 18:56:28 GMT -5
Shoutouts to the one time I ordered an ROH PPV in 2015 and got a uStream link with audio that was out of sync all night long. Really added the extra oomf to Lethal vs. Briscoe.
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Post by Cyno on May 6, 2022 22:31:01 GMT -5
This is one area where I hope Tony Khan being the new owner really improves things. Honor Club was terrible under Sinclair.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on May 7, 2022 8:13:09 GMT -5
Hopefully ianriccaboni pops in here to give some insight. I’ve never used the service just because I don’t even have time to view a lot of the physical media I have on hand. In defense of it though I imagine it’s not an easy fix. IIRC the music copyright could be a big part of it. I remember how different it was when ECW would be when they’d use generic techno music in place of things like Natural Born Killaz. Another part of it could be wanting to wait until it can be showcased properly beyond just the music. A lot of the early shows were filmed with much more limited equipment than even what some indies use today. We’re probably dreaming if we expect every show to be fully remastered, but they probably can be worked on to some degree. It’s going to be jarring no matter what, but I imagine some fans who weren’t there for Punk/Joe and want to see it have obvious high expectations. Again, I don’t know what’s up with the service outside of mentions of it on Ian’s podcast and the odd mentions of it on forums like this. If Tony Khan wants to continue to build goodwill I imagine putting a decent chunk of money into getting Honor Club in optimal shape would really help out. |
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Muskrat
Wade Wilson
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Post by Muskrat on May 7, 2022 8:55:10 GMT -5
I personally don't have Honor Club, but yeah, I read all the stories about how a good chunk of their shows is missing and it's just baffling. (One theory is that the shows from 2002-Early 2009 used music you would here on the radio rather than royalty-free libraries/original compositions for the Wrestlers entrances, which would explain some things). I did hear rumors that some of the original tapes might have been lost or something, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. The music thing would make sense considering when they got on HDNet they had to change everyone’s music. Wouldn’t surprise me if before that they subscribed to the Paul Heyman theory of “we’re too small for music companies to care, so until we get called out we’re just gonna use the music”. |
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 7, 2022 9:03:42 GMT -5
The match I've been looking for forever and a day isn't on there: Aries Vs. Black at Final Battle 2009
I remember it being a really infamous match when it happened and I want to see what the fuss was about. Whether it was a good match hampered by an awful booking decision or an unnecessary self indulgent match that just went an hour because it good. And with Go Fight Live where the PPV was originally broadcast no longer in service it appears to be lost to the ages.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on May 7, 2022 11:34:53 GMT -5
The match I've been looking for forever and a day isn't on there: Aries Vs. Black at Final Battle 2009 I remember it being a really infamous match when it happened and I want to see what the fuss was about. Whether it was a good match hampered by an awful booking decision or an unnecessary self indulgent match that just went an hour because it good. And with Go Fight Live where the PPV was originally broadcast no longer in service it appears to be lost to the ages. It is both to be honest. An overly self indulgent match but one that probably doesn't happen that way if the booking of the company - and Tyler in particular -around this time wasn't so f***ing awful. |
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on May 7, 2022 15:46:16 GMT -5
On the Last Stop Penn Station podcast Ian and Cary said one of the reasons not everything was uploaded is because the unlicensed music had to be edited out.
I've been a HonorClub subscriber pretty much since it launched in hopes that they would eventually upload their entire catalog but that never happened. I believe Joe Koff said before the Free Enterprise event that the goal was to upload the entire catalog during 2020, but I'm assuming the Pandemic ruined those plans.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on May 7, 2022 16:14:43 GMT -5
The match I've been looking for forever and a day isn't on there: Aries Vs. Black at Final Battle 2009 I remember it being a really infamous match when it happened and I want to see what the fuss was about. Whether it was a good match hampered by an awful booking decision or an unnecessary self indulgent match that just went an hour because it good. And with Go Fight Live where the PPV was originally broadcast no longer in service it appears to be lost to the ages. for the people watching at home it mostly got complaints because it was an hour long match on top of an already long show. on dvd the show is almost four hours, and that's without the intermission, ring cleanup between matches, and Teddy Hart's unscripted post-match promo (i didn't notice it at the time, but a few years after the show took place i read in a review where ROH sent someone to get Hart out of the ring. thankfully GFL was still active at the time so i went back and checked, and sure enough as soon as Hart got the microphone, Bryce Remsberg comes running out from the back and repeatedly yells at Teddy to shut up and get out of the ring the whole time he's talking) for the people in attendance, they got pissed off because ROH decided to go ahead with the draw when there was a literal blizzard going on outside, making the fans choose between leaving and possibly missing a title change, or staying and possibly getting stuck. risking getting stranded for a match that didn't even have a winner cause quite of few people to be less than thrilled with it. it's not a bad match, but watching it back now won't give you any insight as to why people didn't like it, because it was about the circumstances around the match, not the match itself. |
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 7, 2022 17:04:14 GMT -5
The match I've been looking for forever and a day isn't on there: Aries Vs. Black at Final Battle 2009 I remember it being a really infamous match when it happened and I want to see what the fuss was about. Whether it was a good match hampered by an awful booking decision or an unnecessary self indulgent match that just went an hour because it good. And with Go Fight Live where the PPV was originally broadcast no longer in service it appears to be lost to the ages. for the people watching at home it mostly got complaints because it was an hour long match on top of an already long show. on dvd the show is almost four hours, and that's without the intermission, ring cleanup between matches, and Teddy Hart's unscripted post-match promo (i didn't notice it at the time, but a few years after the show took place i read in a review where ROH sent someone to get Hart out of the ring. thankfully GFL was still active at the time so i went back and checked, and sure enough as soon as Hart got the microphone, Bryce Remsberg comes running out from the back and repeatedly yells at Teddy to shut up and get out of the ring the whole time he's talking) for the people in attendance, they got pissed off because ROH decided to go ahead with the draw when there was a literal blizzard going on outside, making the fans choose between leaving and possibly missing a title change, or staying and possibly getting stuck. risking getting stranded for a match that didn't even have a winner cause quite of few people to be less than thrilled with it. it's not a bad match, but watching it back now won't give you any insight as to why people didn't like it, because it was about the circumstances around the match, not the match itself. Thanks for the context. So in addition to poor booking it was just a perfect shitstorm in general? |
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Post by Cyno on May 7, 2022 17:19:25 GMT -5
ROH2009 in general felt like this weird purgatory period for the booking. Sapolsky just left for DGUSA and they were feeling out how to continue on from there. There were some hits but a lot of misses, too. The future Seth Rollins' push was more of the latter.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on May 7, 2022 18:48:41 GMT -5
for the people watching at home it mostly got complaints because it was an hour long match on top of an already long show. on dvd the show is almost four hours, and that's without the intermission, ring cleanup between matches, and Teddy Hart's unscripted post-match promo (i didn't notice it at the time, but a few years after the show took place i read in a review where ROH sent someone to get Hart out of the ring. thankfully GFL was still active at the time so i went back and checked, and sure enough as soon as Hart got the microphone, Bryce Remsberg comes running out from the back and repeatedly yells at Teddy to shut up and get out of the ring the whole time he's talking) for the people in attendance, they got pissed off because ROH decided to go ahead with the draw when there was a literal blizzard going on outside, making the fans choose between leaving and possibly missing a title change, or staying and possibly getting stuck. risking getting stranded for a match that didn't even have a winner cause quite of few people to be less than thrilled with it. it's not a bad match, but watching it back now won't give you any insight as to why people didn't like it, because it was about the circumstances around the match, not the match itself. Thanks for the context. So in addition to poor booking it was just a perfect shitstorm in general? it wasn't necessarily poor booking, as the one hour draw was done to setup the rematch with judges at the anniversary show, which in turn started the feud between Tyler Black and Roderick Strong over the title. so it wasn't a draw just for the sake of a draw, but it happened under bad circumstances. |
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 7, 2022 19:23:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the context. So in addition to poor booking it was just a perfect shitstorm in general? it wasn't necessarily poor booking, as the one hour draw was done to setup the rematch with judges at the anniversary show, which in turn started the feud between Tyler Black and Roderick Strong over the title. so it wasn't a draw just for the sake of a draw, but it happened under bad circumstances. I don't even know that that rematch was something that was needed though, given that they'd been building to him winning the title all year and that was his sixth shot in 2009. It made Tyler feel like even more of a choke artist. There were plenty of other ways they could have set him and Roddy up too, given what had happened during Survival of the Fittest that year. |
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,095
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on May 7, 2022 19:34:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the context. So in addition to poor booking it was just a perfect shitstorm in general? it wasn't necessarily poor booking, as the one hour draw was done to setup the rematch with judges at the anniversary show, which in turn started the feud between Tyler Black and Roderick Strong over the title. so it wasn't a draw just for the sake of a draw, but it happened under bad circumstances. I don't disagree that the booking of the draw had a purpose but I still think it was bad booking. It's probably the most egregious example of the problem ROH often had in not strapping the rocket to someone when they were hot. Fans had pretty much been ready for Tyler to win the big one since Nigel made him at Take No Prisoners 08. Final Battle was already about 21 months after that match, fans were already kinda over the Tyler thing and they still did a draw to extend the feud. It was a really poor booking decision. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 20:42:44 GMT -5
I personally don't have Honor Club, but yeah, I read all the stories about how a good chunk of their shows is missing and it's just baffling. (One theory is that the shows from 2002-Early 2009 used music you would here on the radio rather than royalty-free libraries/original compositions for the Wrestlers entrances, which would explain some things). I did hear rumors that some of the original tapes might have been lost or something, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. The music thing would make sense considering when they got on HDNet they had to change everyone’s music. Wouldn’t surprise me if before that they subscribed to the Paul Heyman theory of “we’re too small for music companies to care, so until we get called out we’re just gonna use the music”. I mean Gabe Sapolsky was Heyman assistant in ECW. He probably learn a thing or two from him that he later uses in ROH. |
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Post by ianriccaboni on May 7, 2022 20:54:28 GMT -5
To clear up what I know:
Everything exists save for a few dark matches that were taped were likely lost.
Commentary content and music editing were the hold up to be uploaded to HonorClub. Everything was digitized during the pandemic.
A ton of stuff was quietly added in 2020.
Intent always seemed to me like a vehicle to get a better cut of live event money from broadcasts as compared to say something to archive the library.
No idea what it looks like moving forward.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 8, 2022 7:32:07 GMT -5
To clear up what I know: Everything exists save for a few dark matches that were taped were likely lost. Commentary content and music editing were the hold up to be uploaded to HonorClub. Everything was digitized during the pandemic. A ton of stuff was quietly added in 2020. Intent always seemed to me like a vehicle to get a better cut of live event money from broadcasts as compared to say something to archive the library. No idea what it looks like moving forward. Thank you for the clarification. |
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