|
Post by oxbaker on May 10, 2022 23:24:47 GMT -5
What is meant by cheating in this context? Like grabbing the tights for a pin? Or cheating on their spouses? Or their taxes? What? Spouses. IIRC, Taichi served a suspension in addition to knowing he wasn't going to get any kind of push for a good long while afterward, and it's why TAKA disappeared from Suzuki-gun 'til recently. Thanks. I kept seeing ‘cheating scandal’ and I’m like ‘cheating is rampant in wrestling’ haha. Different culture. Be interesting to see what comes to light and how this all shakes out.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,471
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 10, 2022 23:34:44 GMT -5
This is as a lot of people have already said... a lot
Ibushi's risking a lot here as well, like with a lot of major promotions due to how everyone is starting to closely work together. He is very out there in terms of some of the weird stuff he believes or has said, but would be truly say this knowing what the ramifications would be for his career?
I'm gonna wait till more comes out to lean one way or the other, especially on whoever Kikuchi is. This could be a whole lot of something, or it could blow up in Kota's face.
|
|
Rave
El Dandy
Perpetually Bored
Posts: 8,110
|
Post by Rave on May 10, 2022 23:45:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Lizuka #BLM on May 10, 2022 23:51:23 GMT -5
Threatening to fire Ibushi if he doesn't rush back from an injury sounds like a profoundly stupid thing for a company that's lost a f***ton of star power over the past three years to do.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
|
Post by Mozenrath on May 10, 2022 23:54:08 GMT -5
What is meant by cheating in this context? Like grabbing the tights for a pin? Or cheating on their spouses? Or their taxes? What? Spouses. IIRC, Taichi served a suspension in addition to knowing he wasn't going to get any kind of push for a good long while afterward, and it's why TAKA disappeared from Suzuki-gun 'til recently. Yup, in TAKA's case, it was an 8 year long affair, if I recall, and that was what made it as big of a deal as it was, and it was also what got him ousted from Kaientai Dojo, which changed its name to further distance itself from him. Shibata probably only got off clean due to being one of NJPW's top talents, but even with him, his friend Goto tore into him on Twitter over it, if I recall, due to Goto being a family man and strongly against unfaithful behavior. They seem to have made up since then, though.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
|
Post by Mozenrath on May 10, 2022 23:56:22 GMT -5
Threatening to fire Ibushi if he doesn't rush back from an injury sounds like a profoundly stupid thing for a company that's lost a f***ton of star power over the past three years to do. Agreed, though I imagine that's also been part of the panic to try to get him back, given they've positioned him as basically one of the pillars of the company. It's sort of like how NOAH continually relied on Misawa and Kobashi, and all of the damage that did to both men, killing the first, and Morishima having a complete mental breakdown with the pressure he was put under, seemingly. Top guys seem to get tons of guilt trips put on them to save things when ticket sales are hit.
|
|
|
Post by Starshine on May 10, 2022 23:56:33 GMT -5
For background, the “cheaters-gun” seems like a friendly banter comment from Ibushi about TAKA Michinoku and Taichi, who both have massive cheating scandals that made their names mud in Japanese Pro Wrestling. It’s the reason Taichi was so lazy for so many years. He knew he wasn’t going to get any sustained push for shit. TAKA, on the other hand, does have harassment allegations to go with his cheating scandal. Both guys took a ton of flack for what they did. Unlike Shibata who seemed to dodge a lot of that same scrutiny. What is meant by cheating in this context? Like grabbing the tights for a pin? Or cheating on their spouses? Or their taxes? What? All the above. Under-reporting income tax to their tax agent, who they're also currently cheating on their spouses with, while also holding their paramour's tights in the pin.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,850
|
Post by Dub H on May 11, 2022 0:30:11 GMT -5
People trying to dismiss Ibushi because he is a weird and odd guy is honestly..not nice to put mildly. its no different than someone speaking out about being harassed or abused(and this is a form of workplace abuse) and trying to dismiss it.
Also whats up with wrestling companies bringing back washed up and toxic guys for talent relations, the last place those guys should be
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
|
Post by Mozenrath on May 11, 2022 0:34:11 GMT -5
People trying to dismiss Ibushi because he is a weird and odd guy is honestly..not nice to put mildly. its no different than someone speaking out about being harassed or abused(and this is a form of workplace abuse) and trying to dismiss it. Also whats up with wrestling companies bringing back washed up and toxic guys for talent relations, the last place those guys should be On the second part, probably wrestling companies trying to find stuff for guys to do to keep them getting a pay check out of concern for them. As for a more cynical reason, sometimes people are put in that position because they're easily scapegoated if people don't like them, anyway, or in the case of Watts keeping Grizzly Smith around, it's because Smith was practically his spymaster who kept tabs on what everyone was up to so that Watts always had leverage, that basically nothing happened in Midsouth without Grizzly knowing about it, and through him, Watts.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,850
|
Post by Dub H on May 11, 2022 0:34:30 GMT -5
Also, apparently Ibushi talked to Gedo,which has no issues with him or what he did, and is gonna have lunch with the company's President.
It seems it is mostly heat with Kikuchi
|
|
Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,073
|
Post by Johnny B. Decent on May 11, 2022 1:01:23 GMT -5
Yeah, for a while I was hardcore following New Japan as my main promotion and the name has never come up. Maybe he's new leadership from the post-Meij days but if not then that'd make them one of the most illusive figures in the wrestling industry. That's the kind of shadowy background figure you find out years later was pulling the strings and was a major Yakuza figure. PRIDE. I'm referring to the likes of the people behind PRIDE. New Japan having someone like that who isn't even criminally tied would be crazy. I think I mentioned on the NOAH thread that the Yakuza didn't leave sports and wrestling, they were just better at hiding and masking themselves. Ibushi is playing with fire doing this There's also a new type of criminal group in Japan called Hangure, which also are getting into traditional Yakuza money sources, and they're even worse then them.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,850
|
Post by Dub H on May 11, 2022 1:39:04 GMT -5
I think I mentioned on the NOAH thread that the Yakuza didn't leave sports and wrestling, they were just better at hiding and masking themselves. Ibushi is playing with fire doing this There's also a new type of criminal group in Japan called Hangure, which also are getting into traditional Yakuza money sources, and they're even worse then them. But if i'm not mistaken they dont (usually) deal with this kind of stuff. Because this is a very Yakuza style business, they deal much more with people thenselves if i'm not mistaken and less dealing with big businesses.
|
|
Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,073
|
Post by Johnny B. Decent on May 11, 2022 1:43:06 GMT -5
There's also a new type of criminal group in Japan called Hangure, which also are getting into traditional Yakuza money sources, and they're even worse then them. But if i'm not mistaken they dont (usually) deal with this kind of stuff. Because this is a very Yakuza style business, they deal much more with people thenselves if i'm not mistaken and less dealing with businesses. Well, I sure hope not. Apparently, they really are a nasty bunch.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,850
|
Post by Dub H on May 11, 2022 1:47:52 GMT -5
But if i'm not mistaken they dont (usually) deal with this kind of stuff. Because this is a very Yakuza style business, they deal much more with people thenselves if i'm not mistaken and less dealing with businesses. Well, I sure hope not. Apparently, they really are a nasty bunch. Well i'm no especialist but from what I studied they specifically avoid being Yakuza, because they want to avoid Anti-Yakuza LAws to get more power. So they lack the big structures of the Yakuza ,the big companies and money investments with large powerholds tha allows they to control businesses. But while the Yakuza make sure to show they are Yakuza and using their title to oppress others, they specialize into "blending" into society like universities and exploiting less fortunate or naive people, and yeh they are much more violent than the Yakuza since they are basically a bunch of loosely tied gangs that dont have to take orders. I think you will often see then running more groundlevel scams or fake business like fake bars, fake medicine , fake merchandise.Among other more gruesome or tragic crimes
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
|
Post by Mozenrath on May 11, 2022 2:00:39 GMT -5
I do have my doubts it's an organized crime situation here. I am not saying that yakuza aren't still involved in wrestling in Japan, they most certainly probably are, but it's more likely they'd be involved in some of the smaller companies at this point. Never heard anything to suggest Bushiroad is involved with the yakuza. Also, apparently Ibushi talked to Gedo,which has no issues with him or what he did, and is gonna have lunch with the company's President. It seems it is mostly heat with Kikuchi Not surprised there's an effort to smooth it over. Ibushi's one of their top stars, and they would want to make him happy, especially in a situation like this where just firing the guy would A. look really bad, and B. be handing him on a silver platter to NOAH or AJPW as an easy PR coup.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,471
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 11, 2022 2:02:31 GMT -5
Yeah I assume that Gedo and New Japan are really gonna try and smooth this over first, because this Kikuchi sounds like he could end up losing them one of their biggest stars And unless they take some grand offense to it that could effect the Forbidden Door, Ibushi could easily walk to AEW since New Japan are the ones who would fire him, like he has the easiest in in the entire world with Kenny. Hope it doesn't come to that, but this seems like it really, really needs a resolution, and fast
|
|
Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,584
|
Post by Burst on May 11, 2022 3:41:31 GMT -5
Quoted from the most recent reddit post, maybe it's the early morning coffee making me read too much into this, but while I know the whole "no relationships allowed if you're reasonably attractive and somebody for fans to project their crushes onto" is very toxically typical of Japanese entertainment culture in general, has Kota really had any other relationships implied other than... well, Kenny? It's just phrased in a way that makes me wonder if it's him lashing out at say, not being able to be more open about that sort of thing, especially with the selective, old-school beliefs Kikuchi is apparently throwing around. From the Kenny side of things I know he's kept quite mum about the "okay are you guys actually a thing or not" factor, but that's almost certainly a product of him knowing the idol culture and how badly publicized relationships always seem to go unless there's explicit approval from the top down, *and* knowing how a certain homophobic sub-element of wrestling fans would latch onto it (even though said sub-element pretty much already does anyway).
|
|
Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
|
Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 11, 2022 4:35:57 GMT -5
So this Kikuchi sounds like someone cut from the same cloth as Inoki. That explains several things.
|
|
Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
|
Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 11, 2022 4:41:12 GMT -5
Again, this is the first of any reports of Ibushi having any heat with TAKA and Taichi. They’ve been very close. I’m skeptical about that part.
|
|
Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
|
Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 11, 2022 6:38:55 GMT -5
Also, I’m not sure how VOW have all this info about a guy most insiders only heard about yesterday.
|
|