Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2022 7:03:10 GMT -5
So more evidence that Dick Togo is a plague in New Japan if he's responsible for getting this guy back in, on top of his terrible booking
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 11, 2022 7:35:29 GMT -5
So more evidence that Dick Togo is a plague in New Japan if he's responsible for getting this guy back in, on top of his terrible booking That’s actually another reason I’m skeptical of that reporting, to be honest. So this Kikuchi was let go because of a cheating scandal a few years back, but was brought back at the behest of Dick Togo, of all people? I’m not saying it’s impossible. I just find it a stretch to think a guy who’s only been in the company for just under 2 years has the kind of power needed to bring back this shadowy figure.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 11, 2022 7:46:23 GMT -5
People trying to dismiss Ibushi because he is a weird and odd guy is honestly..not nice to put mildly. its no different than someone speaking out about being harassed or abused(and this is a form of workplace abuse) and trying to dismiss it. Also whats up with wrestling companies bringing back washed up and toxic guys for talent relations, the last place those guys should be He's posting contextless, private conversations that have nothing to do with his allegations. He's completely destroyed his relationships with previous companies to the point that his own, current coworkers are mocking him on Twitter. You should always listen to someone's allegations but when they have a track record of not being reliable plus they aren't even making sense with their allegations, you can raise a red flag.
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dpg
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Post by dpg on May 11, 2022 12:44:51 GMT -5
This whole thing is very confusing. The translations don't help, inferences change between languages a lot, as does meaning. That plus how murky behind the scenes are run in NJPW make the claims hard to follow for an outsider like me.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 11, 2022 13:22:50 GMT -5
Murky as they are, I don’t think anybody denies the fact that there is a ton of pressure in New Japan for guys to keep working unless the bone is falling out. That’s always been the case. Even now.
Tanahashi helped change a lot of things about NJPW’s culture. The pressure to work hurt as a top guy was NOT one of them. In fact, if anything, he embodies that attitude more than anybody else in the company. He’s been in desperate need of time off for years and he just outright refuses to take it. Which is why his body is, to paraphrase El Phantasmo, held together by duct tape and hair spray.
And who was his mentor? Perhaps the worst example of a guy wrestling through the pain in the history of pro wrestling full stop: Keiji Mutoh. That man has two replaced knees and a replaced hip. Yet, there he is, STILL wrestling 30 minute matches. Even pulling out the moonsault occasionally. Why? Because there are houses to fill and money to be made. He can’t take off. No matter how much simply walking now feels like pure torture.
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Post by oxbaker on May 11, 2022 13:26:00 GMT -5
This whole thing is very confusing. The translations don't help, inferences change between languages a lot, as does meaning. That plus how murky behind the scenes are run in NJPW make the claims hard to follow for an outsider like me. Am I correct or not that somewhere in all this he has alleged sexual harassment by unnamed executives/higher-ups in the company? Seems like that would be something hard to get past in repairing any relationships, not to mention being vague (and not naming names/situations) paints with a broad brush that could tarnish everyone’s reputations — even people who haven’t done anything wrong.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 11, 2022 14:13:55 GMT -5
Murky as they are, I don’t think anybody denies the fact that there is a ton of pressure in New Japan for guys to keep working unless the bone is falling out. That’s always been the case. Even now. Tanahashi helped change a lot of things about NJPW’s culture. The pressure to work hurt as a top guy was NOT one of them. In fact, if anything, he embodies that attitude more than anybody else in the company. He’s been in desperate need of time off for years and he just outright refuses to take it. Which is why his body is, to paraphrase El Phantasmo, held together by duct tape and hair spray. And who was his mentor? Perhaps the worst example of a guy wrestling through the pain in the history of pro wrestling full stop: Keiji Mutoh. That man has two replaced knees and a replaced hip. Yet, there he is, STILL wrestling 30 minute matches. Even pulling out the moonsault occasionally. Why? Because there are houses to fill and money to be made. He can’t take off. No matter how much simply walking now feels like pure torture. 100% agreed on all of this. The issue is that Ibushi claims that they wanted to rush him back for WK (because why wouldn't they) and told them no (good on him!). He then wanted to come back for the NJC because he was going to win it, but then wasn't cleared because he had pnemonia and blames the office for that. But then he said that he still can only do an 80 pound overhead press which would mean he shouldn't be cleared. I know a lot is being lost in translation, but the story isn't making any sense.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on May 11, 2022 17:56:42 GMT -5
It's really weird to see a Japanese person in any field of entertainment or sports, enter don't give a f*** mode as firmly as Ibushi has. I'm far from an expert in Japanese business but I did live there for eight years and this is just fascinating to see unfold. It's usually a case of keeping everything quiet until the story breaks from a third party and then everyone enters a neverending round of bowing and apologies. Instead, Ibushi is just setting everything on fire.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 11, 2022 18:00:04 GMT -5
It's really weird to see a Japanese person in any field of entertainment or sports, enter don't give a f*** mode as firmly as Ibushi has. I'm far from an expert in Japanese business but I did live there for eight years and this is just fascinating to see unfold. It's usually a case of keeping everything quiet until the story breaks from a third party and then everyone enters a neverending round of bowing and apologies. Instead, Ibushi is just setting everything on fire. He's one of their top stars, so even if they fired him, he could waltz into basically any other wrestling company on earth, almost, and be one of their top guys from the word go, so he's in a pretty unique position to throw that weight around.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on May 11, 2022 18:16:24 GMT -5
What's also confusing is that even with the timeline of events some things that were said earlier start to make less sense (like the "Kikuchi being in charge of the long term booking" when he's been back for about a year if that, or Ibushi having heat on TAKA but then appearing on his company's show...).
Something here is terribly lost in the minutia, and we'll probably won't have an actual answer for a while.
Except that Kikuchi seems like a real piece of work and that Ibushi likes to Ibushi and he's gonna Ibushi.
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Post by oxbaker on May 11, 2022 22:14:38 GMT -5
So apparently he’s now tweeted that he’s fired.
But there’s some question of nuance in the translation and whether he is literally saying he has been fired or it’s more of a ‘I’m so fired after tweeting this stuff’ and that he just expects to be fired soon.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 11, 2022 22:30:19 GMT -5
It's really weird to see a Japanese person in any field of entertainment or sports, enter don't give a f*** mode as firmly as Ibushi has. I'm far from an expert in Japanese business but I did live there for eight years and this is just fascinating to see unfold. It's usually a case of keeping everything quiet until the story breaks from a third party and then everyone enters a neverending round of bowing and apologies. Instead, Ibushi is just setting everything on fire. Japanese people overrall dont like to make public fuss about thing as it bothers people around then and of course heavy emphasis on respecting your superiors (which leads to many unreported cases of abuses or even abuse that is straight up allowed). Safe to say Ibushi gives no f***s tho.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on May 12, 2022 4:33:29 GMT -5
It's really weird to see a Japanese person in any field of entertainment or sports, enter don't give a f*** mode as firmly as Ibushi has. I'm far from an expert in Japanese business but I did live there for eight years and this is just fascinating to see unfold. It's usually a case of keeping everything quiet until the story breaks from a third party and then everyone enters a neverending round of bowing and apologies. Instead, Ibushi is just setting everything on fire. He's one of their top stars, so even if they fired him, he could waltz into basically any other wrestling company on earth, almost, and be one of their top guys from the word go, so he's in a pretty unique position to throw that weight around. This is true, but behaving like this can get you blacklisted from all Japanese companies. Japanese society does not like people who rock the boat.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 12, 2022 5:40:44 GMT -5
Bryan Alvarez covered this the other day on WOL basically said long story short the main issue boils down to New Japan asking Ibushi to come back and Ibushi feeling he wasn't ready, and its happened enough times that he's fed up (Bryan says that comes directly from Ibushi's camp).
Could there be other issues? Yes but it was also confirmed that Gedo has final say on everything so there was clearly some translation issues.
Bryan also did mention that Ibushi's... personality has alienated him from a lot of people so he doesn't have a lot of support
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 12, 2022 7:19:56 GMT -5
He's one of their top stars, so even if they fired him, he could waltz into basically any other wrestling company on earth, almost, and be one of their top guys from the word go, so he's in a pretty unique position to throw that weight around. This is true, but behaving like this can get you blacklisted from all Japanese companies. Japanese society does not like people who rock the boat. Yeah, Ibushi is risking a ton here so, either it’s true or his inherited wealth has made it to where he doesn’t care anymore.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 12, 2022 7:20:44 GMT -5
Bryan Alvarez covered this the other day on WOL basically said long story short the main issue boils down to New Japan asking Ibushi to come back and Ibushi feeling he wasn't ready, and its happened enough times that he's fed up (Bryan says that comes directly from Ibushi's camp). Could there be other issues? Yes but it was also confirmed that Gedo has final say on everything so there was clearly some translation issues. Bryan also did mention that Ibushi's... personality has alienated him from a lot of people so he doesn't have a lot of support That’s clear from the subtweeting that his former DDT coworkers have been doing. Lots of eye rolling going on from them.
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Post by AwamoriRock on May 12, 2022 7:54:17 GMT -5
Even without the donezo implications of this, the other things he says in this thread make smoothing things over look out the window.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 12, 2022 8:01:05 GMT -5
As of yesterday afternoon the vibe I got here was that Kikuchi had basically been screwing with Kota, but that the other higher ups seemed fine with whatever he was doing (e.g. Gedo being fine with him appearing at the JTO show, Kota having lunch with NJPW's president, etc.).
Now we're just pushing towards utter chaos, for reasons that are still not abundantly clear.
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Post by oxbaker on May 12, 2022 8:30:42 GMT -5
As of yesterday afternoon the vibe I got here was that Kikuchi had basically been screwing with Kota, but that the other higher ups seemed fine with whatever he was doing (e.g. Gedo being fine with him appearing at the JTO show, Kota having lunch with NJPW's president, etc.). Now we're just pushing towards utter chaos, for reasons that are still not abundantly clear. I assume you start dropping Yakuza involvement into the situation (basically saying they’re involved in NJPW or behind it) is full scorched earth.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on May 12, 2022 8:33:46 GMT -5
As of yesterday afternoon the vibe I got here was that Kikuchi had basically been screwing with Kota, but that the other higher ups seemed fine with whatever he was doing (e.g. Gedo being fine with him appearing at the JTO show, Kota having lunch with NJPW's president, etc.). Now we're just pushing towards utter chaos, for reasons that are still not abundantly clear. I assume you start dropping Yakuza involvement into the situation (basically saying they’re involved in NJPW or behind it) is full scorched earth. I hope he knows what he's doing, TBH. I'd be lying if I said I knew how influential the Yakuza still was in Japan, but this all feels pretty wreckless.
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