tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,109
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Post by tafkaga on May 24, 2022 11:25:04 GMT -5
I have heard people reference "home grown" talent, and many times the examples given are of wrestlers who had already earned widespread or national recognition in a different company.
What are some examples of wrestlers who were unknown or obscure, started at the bottom of the card in one company, and gradually rose to be a main eventer or even the top wrestler for that company?
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on May 24, 2022 11:57:06 GMT -5
Batista, John Cena, Batista and Brock Lesnar all would qualify, though they technically started in OVW before going to WWE.
Edit: Randy Orton in place of the 2nd Batista there.
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Post by Mayonnaise on May 24, 2022 11:58:05 GMT -5
Jeff Hardy is the first that came to mind for me.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 24, 2022 12:12:59 GMT -5
Tetsuua Naito, Okada and Hiroshi Tanahashi I suppose, lots of guys from the NJPW dojo system, although they will push talented outsiders like Ishii, Ibushi and Shingo, etc.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 24, 2022 14:01:08 GMT -5
Bret's probably the best example of this from his era. Obviously wasn't trained by anyone in the WWF but he had zero American profile other than in Stampede, which no one outside of Western Canada knew about except the tape traders and the boys
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Post by Jindrak Mark on May 24, 2022 14:07:29 GMT -5
Different people have different definitions of home grown talent. Like John Cena and Batista very briefly worked indies before signing their WWE developmental deals. Does that disqualify them? Sasha Banks and Bayley got their names, their gimmicks and a lot of their development in the WWE system but do you consider them home-grown WWE talent despite Davina Rose and Mercedes KV wrestling on the indies for a couple of years?
In terms of literally never wrestled a match outside of the companies system beforehand and then made it to main event status, at least somewhat:
WWE - The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Roman Reigns, Randy Orton, Kurt Angle, Bruno Sammartino, Trish Stratus, Charlotte Flair, Bianca Belair, Alexa Bliss, Bella Twins, Ronda Rousey, Cody Rhodes, Bobby Lashley, Big E, Bray Wyatt, Braun Strowman, Mark Henry, Dolph Ziggler, Mandy Rose, Bron Breakker, Usos
WCW - Goldberg, The Giant
NJPW - Hiroshi Tanahashi, Kazuchika Okada, Tetsuya Naito, Keiji Muto, Jushin Liger, Masa Chono, Shinya Hashimoto, Shinsuke Nakamura, Yuji Nagata, Satoshi Kojima
AJPW - Mitsuhara Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue, Genichiro Tenryu, Jun Akiyama, Suwama
NOAH - Go Shiozaki
AEW - Jade Cargill
CZW - Adam Cole
It's shocking how few WCW had. Even some that I thought might have been home-grown (Sting, Luger, DDP, Steiners) actually weren't.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on May 24, 2022 14:57:13 GMT -5
Different people have different definitions of home grown talent. Like John Cena and Batista very briefly worked indies before signing their WWE developmental deals. Does that disqualify them? Sasha Banks and Bayley got their names, their gimmicks and a lot of their development in the WWE system but do you consider them home-grown WWE talent despite Davina Rose and Mercedes KV wrestling on the indies for a couple of years? In terms of literally never wrestled a match outside of the companies system beforehand and then made it to main event status, at least somewhat: WWE - The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Roman Reigns, Randy Orton, Kurt Angle, Bruno Sammartino, Trish Stratus, Charlotte Flair, Bianca Belair, Alexa Bliss, Bella Twins, Ronda Rousey, Cody Rhodes, Bobby Lashley, Big E, Bray Wyatt, Braun Strowman, Mark Henry, Dolph Ziggler, Mandy Rose, Bron Breakker, Usos WCW - Goldberg, The Giant NJPW - Hiroshi Tanahashi, Kazuchika Okada, Tetsuya Naito, Keiji Muto, Jushin Liger, Masa Chono, Shinya Hashimoto, Shinsuke Nakamura, Yuji Nagata, Satoshi Kojima AJPW - Mitsuhara Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue, Genichiro Tenryu, Jun Akiyama, Suwama NOAH - Go Shiozaki AEW - Jade Cargill CZW - Adam Cole It's shocking how few WCW had. Even some that I thought might have been home-grown (Sting, Luger, DDP, Steiners) actually weren't. WCW didn't have a clue how to create stars. Especially under Eric Bischoff, who didn't know how to do anything other than sign guys Vince had made stars. The closest one to homegrown out of the list of WCW names you mentioned would be Scott Steiner. Who as far as I know never wrestled on anything other than very small regional TV at most. Also didn't know Adam Cole came from CZW! I knew he worked for EVOLVE when he was really young but never knew about CZW. 🤯
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 24, 2022 15:01:29 GMT -5
Different people have different definitions of home grown talent. Like John Cena and Batista very briefly worked indies before signing their WWE developmental deals. Does that disqualify them? Sasha Banks and Bayley got their names, their gimmicks and a lot of their development in the WWE system but do you consider them home-grown WWE talent despite Davina Rose and Mercedes KV wrestling on the indies for a couple of years? In terms of literally never wrestled a match outside of the companies system beforehand and then made it to main event status, at least somewhat: WWE - The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Roman Reigns, Randy Orton, Kurt Angle, Bruno Sammartino, Trish Stratus, Charlotte Flair, Bianca Belair, Alexa Bliss, Bella Twins, Ronda Rousey, Cody Rhodes, Bobby Lashley, Big E, Bray Wyatt, Braun Strowman, Mark Henry, Dolph Ziggler, Mandy Rose, Bron Breakker, Usos WCW - Goldberg, The Giant NJPW - Hiroshi Tanahashi, Kazuchika Okada, Tetsuya Naito, Keiji Muto, Jushin Liger, Masa Chono, Shinya Hashimoto, Shinsuke Nakamura, Yuji Nagata, Satoshi Kojima AJPW - Mitsuhara Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue, Genichiro Tenryu, Jun Akiyama, Suwama NOAH - Go Shiozaki AEW - Jade Cargill CZW - Adam Cole It's shocking how few WCW had. Even some that I thought might have been home-grown (Sting, Luger, DDP, Steiners) actually weren't. WCW didn't have a clue how to create stars. Especially under Eric Bischoff, who didn't know how to do anything other than sign guys Vince had made stars. The closest one to homegrown out of the list of WCW names you mentioned would be Scott Steiner. Who as far as I know never wrestled on anything other than very small regional TV at most. Also didn't know Adam Cole came from CZW! I knew he worked for EVOLVE when he was really young but never knew about CZW. 🤯 Booker T, DDP, Benoit became a main eventer, shit he even made Glen Giliberti relevant
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,109
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Post by tafkaga on May 24, 2022 16:22:49 GMT -5
Different people have different definitions of home grown talent. Like John Cena and Batista very briefly worked indies before signing their WWE developmental deals. Does that disqualify them? Sasha Banks and Bayley got their names, their gimmicks and a lot of their development in the WWE system but do you consider them home-grown WWE talent despite Davina Rose and Mercedes KV wrestling on the indies for a couple of years? In terms of literally never wrestled a match outside of the companies system beforehand and then made it to main event status, at least somewhat: WWE - The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Roman Reigns, Randy Orton, Kurt Angle, Bruno Sammartino, Trish Stratus, Charlotte Flair, Bianca Belair, Alexa Bliss, Bella Twins, Ronda Rousey, Cody Rhodes, Bobby Lashley, Big E, Bray Wyatt, Braun Strowman, Mark Henry, Dolph Ziggler, Mandy Rose, Bron Breakker, Usos WCW - Goldberg, The Giant NJPW - Hiroshi Tanahashi, Kazuchika Okada, Tetsuya Naito, Keiji Muto, Jushin Liger, Masa Chono, Shinya Hashimoto, Shinsuke Nakamura, Yuji Nagata, Satoshi Kojima AJPW - Mitsuhara Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue, Genichiro Tenryu, Jun Akiyama, Suwama NOAH - Go Shiozaki AEW - Jade Cargill CZW - Adam Cole It's shocking how few WCW had. Even some that I thought might have been home-grown (Sting, Luger, DDP, Steiners) actually weren't. Sting and Lex Luger were already wrestling in front of a national audience before WCW was a company. DDP, Scott Steiner, Booker T, would definitely count. Why wouldn't they? WCW was only around for about 12 years, so naturally their list is going to be much shorter than a company whose list spans 50+ years. If we compare just the period that WCW was a company to your WWE list from the same period (1989-2001), WCW had a longer list. They're also different eras. 20+ years ago, there was much less room in the main event/world title picture.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on May 24, 2022 16:57:50 GMT -5
Different people have different definitions of home grown talent. Like John Cena and Batista very briefly worked indies before signing their WWE developmental deals. Does that disqualify them? Sasha Banks and Bayley got their names, their gimmicks and a lot of their development in the WWE system but do you consider them home-grown WWE talent despite Davina Rose and Mercedes KV wrestling on the indies for a couple of years? In terms of literally never wrestled a match outside of the companies system beforehand and then made it to main event status, at least somewhat: WWE - The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Roman Reigns, Randy Orton, Kurt Angle, Bruno Sammartino, Trish Stratus, Charlotte Flair, Bianca Belair, Alexa Bliss, Bella Twins, Ronda Rousey, Cody Rhodes, Bobby Lashley, Big E, Bray Wyatt, Braun Strowman, Mark Henry, Dolph Ziggler, Mandy Rose, Bron Breakker, Usos WCW - Goldberg, The Giant NJPW - Hiroshi Tanahashi, Kazuchika Okada, Tetsuya Naito, Keiji Muto, Jushin Liger, Masa Chono, Shinya Hashimoto, Shinsuke Nakamura, Yuji Nagata, Satoshi Kojima AJPW - Mitsuhara Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue, Genichiro Tenryu, Jun Akiyama, Suwama NOAH - Go Shiozaki AEW - Jade Cargill CZW - Adam Cole It's shocking how few WCW had. Even some that I thought might have been home-grown (Sting, Luger, DDP, Steiners) actually weren't. Sting and Lex Luger were already wrestling in front of a national audience before WCW was a company. DDP, Scott Steiner, Booker T, would definitely count. Why wouldn't they? WCW was only around for about 12 years, so naturally their list is going to be much shorter than a company whose list spans 50+ years. If we compare just the period that WCW was a company to your WWE list from the same period (1989-2001), WCW had a longer list. They're also different eras. 20+ years ago, there was much less room in the main event/world title picture. Steiner wrestled for 3 years before debuting in WCW. Booker debuted in the mid 80s, want to jail, came home and wrestled for the GWF before going to WCW in 93. DDP was in the AWA and FCW. They all became much bigger stars and got way more exposure but if that's the criteria then is like Dean Ambrose a homegrown WWE guy? Like I mentioned earlier, are Sasha Banks/Bayley?
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Post by Balesirion on May 24, 2022 19:41:08 GMT -5
Tetsuua Naito, Okada and Hiroshi Tanahashi I suppose, lots of guys from the NJPW dojo system, although they will push talented outsiders like Ishii, Ibushi and Shingo, etc. Okada wasn't initially trained in the NJPW dojo system, he was trained by Ultimo Dragon and spent the first three years of his career in Toryumon.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,441
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Post by XIII on May 24, 2022 19:49:35 GMT -5
The Miz probably. Who would have thought the annoying dude from the Real World(?) would be a main eventer for years?
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 24, 2022 20:05:19 GMT -5
Sting and Lex Luger were already wrestling in front of a national audience before WCW was a company. DDP, Scott Steiner, Booker T, would definitely count. Why wouldn't they? WCW was only around for about 12 years, so naturally their list is going to be much shorter than a company whose list spans 50+ years. If we compare just the period that WCW was a company to your WWE list from the same period (1989-2001), WCW had a longer list. They're also different eras. 20+ years ago, there was much less room in the main event/world title picture. Steiner wrestled for 3 years before debuting in WCW. Booker debuted in the mid 80s, want to jail, came home and wrestled for the GWF before going to WCW in 93. DDP was in the AWA and FCW. They all became much bigger stars and got way more exposure but if that's the criteria then is like Dean Ambrose a homegrown WWE guy? Like I mentioned earlier, are Sasha Banks/Bayley? From the OP: DDP had like 10 matches at the absolute most before WCW, he was a manager and commentator. The dude went from openings match joke to biggest Babyface in the company in 5 years. Booker's iffy because he was on ESPN, but he was a midcard tag guy in the 8th biggest promotion in the country so I can see either argument. Bayley was a semi-featured talent in SHIMMER so I got you there but Sasha was doing local Indy's. The Ambrose thing is just insulting.
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Post by Starshine on May 24, 2022 20:23:23 GMT -5
Most of Dragon Gate's roster is this.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,109
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Post by tafkaga on May 24, 2022 21:36:48 GMT -5
Steiner wrestled for 3 years before debuting in WCW. Booker debuted in the mid 80s, want to jail, came home and wrestled for the GWF before going to WCW in 93. DDP was in the AWA and FCW. They all became much bigger stars and got way more exposure but if that's the criteria then is like Dean Ambrose a homegrown WWE guy? Like I mentioned earlier, are Sasha Banks/Bayley? From the OP: DDP had like 10 matches at the absolute most before WCW, he was a manager and commentator. The dude went from openings match joke to biggest Babyface in the company in 5 years. Booker's iffy because he was on ESPN, but he was a midcard tag guy in the 8th biggest promotion in the country so I can see either argument. Bayley was a semi-featured talent in SHIMMER so I got you there but Sasha was doing local Indy's. The Ambrose thing is just insulting. And what did Scott Steiner do before WCW? A stint in Memphis and the WWA, an even more obscure regional? Scott belongs on the list if any of those guys do.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on May 24, 2022 21:49:14 GMT -5
Steiner wrestled for 3 years before debuting in WCW. Booker debuted in the mid 80s, want to jail, came home and wrestled for the GWF before going to WCW in 93. DDP was in the AWA and FCW. They all became much bigger stars and got way more exposure but if that's the criteria then is like Dean Ambrose a homegrown WWE guy? Like I mentioned earlier, are Sasha Banks/Bayley? From the OP: DDP had like 10 matches at the absolute most before WCW, he was a manager and commentator. The dude went from openings match joke to biggest Babyface in the company in 5 years. Booker's iffy because he was on ESPN, but he was a midcard tag guy in the 8th biggest promotion in the country so I can see either argument. Bayley was a semi-featured talent in SHIMMER so I got you there but Sasha was doing local Indy's. The Ambrose thing is just insulting. Bayley was also doing local Indies. I watched her work for BTW out here in the Bay Area since the late 2000's. So if we're counting stuff like that...
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 24, 2022 22:08:48 GMT -5
From the OP: DDP had like 10 matches at the absolute most before WCW, he was a manager and commentator. The dude went from openings match joke to biggest Babyface in the company in 5 years. Booker's iffy because he was on ESPN, but he was a midcard tag guy in the 8th biggest promotion in the country so I can see either argument. Bayley was a semi-featured talent in SHIMMER so I got you there but Sasha was doing local Indy's. The Ambrose thing is just insulting. Bayley was also doing local Indies. I watched her work for BTW out here in the Bay Area since the late 2000's. So if we're counting stuff like that... What was Sasha doing pre-WWE of note? Bayley was wrestling top talent on high profile indy shows.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,831
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Post by tirtefaa on May 24, 2022 22:19:03 GMT -5
WCW was only around for about 12 years, so naturally their list is going to be much shorter than a company whose list spans 50+ years. If we compare just the period that WCW was a company to your WWE list from the same period (1989-2001), WCW had a longer list. If you look at WWF from roughly 1983 when Vince fully took over to 1995, how many stars did Vince truly create?
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,921
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 24, 2022 22:35:40 GMT -5
Bret's probably the best example of this from his era. Obviously wasn't trained by anyone in the WWF but he had zero American profile other than in Stampede, which no one outside of Western Canada knew about except the tape traders and the boys I know tons of people who saw him wrestle in Stampede, I never did, but he's known...it's not like they say how amazing he was. They just say they saw him wrestle back when.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on May 24, 2022 23:30:07 GMT -5
Bayley was also doing local Indies. I watched her work for BTW out here in the Bay Area since the late 2000's. So if we're counting stuff like that... What was Sasha doing pre-WWE of note? Bayley was wrestling top talent on high profile indy shows. Some New England indies. Surprisingly, this match from Beyond Wrestling only has 1.8 million views which is low for Beyond intergender status. Also, Mikaze is in this match as well.
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