What were WCW's bigger shows?

[agent817]

I know a lot of people say that Starrcade was supposed to be WCW's (or the NWA, depending if it was from the Jim Crockett days) version of Wrestlemania, but I remember reading in past threads about how SuperBrawl felt like it was supposed to be a big event, especially with its use of Roman numerals in the title (except for the final two, where it was SuperBrawl 2000 and SuperBrawl Revenge).

I recall some other shows having kind of a bigger feel, or maybe it was because they had longevity over others. For example, Bash at the Beach (or Beach Blast before the name change) had the feel of a summer PPV, kind of like Summerslam. Great American Bash was kind of like that as well and had longevity since the JCP days. I guess Fall Brawl and Halloween Havoc could be other examples, whereas other ones like Uncensored, Spring Stampede, or Slamboree didn't have that "bigger show" feel. Souled Out certainly didn't feel like a big deal, and neither did World War 3 (except for maybe the three ring battle royal), and Road Wild? Uhhhhh...

What do you think?

[nickcave]

Halloween Havoc always felt big

[DiBiase is Good]

It may not have been one of whatever WCW’s “big four” shows were but Bash at the Beach became a banner show for WCW during their biggest years due to it having huge events in wrestling happen at them : Mainly Hogan’s first WCW match and his heel turn a couple of years later. There were also matches with famous celebrities that gained mainstream recognition (Rodman and Malone).
In terms of recognition, The Great American Bash was known as their big summer show (possibly due to its longevity) but in those glory years for WCW, it just couldn’t come close to BATB.

[tirtefaa]

I guess considering how many events there were, I'd include Super brawl...but you otherwise named the rest.

[tafkaga]

I think of SuperBrawl, Bash at the Beach, Halloween Havoc, and StarrCade as WCW's big 4 events.

Great American Bash was their 2nd biggest show of the Crockett era, but the last 2 or 3 were pretty bad. Then they gave it a hiatus and moved the War Games match to Wrestle War and then Fall Brawl. When they brought GAB back I felt it had been eclipsed by BatB as their premiere summertime event.

Fall Brawl should have been better, but I don't think it ever hosted a good War Games match. As a match concept, War Games peaked with the first one in '87, and I think the last good one was maybe '92 with the Dangerous Alliance. Every War Games from '93 on felt like a low energy rehash.

Personally, I loved WW3, but it was such a clusterf***.

[Jindrak Mark]

Halloween Havoc felt like a bigger deal than Starrcade a lot of the time.

Look at the 1998 cards. HH is one of the most stacked cards ever. Hogan/Warrior II. Goldberg/DDP. Sting/Bret. Nash v Hall and Scott v Rick Steiner both finally happening after months of build. Then 2 months later Starrcade has way less star power and only Goldberg/Nash feels like a big deal.

In 1994 HH had the Hogan/Flair blow-off match in the cage. You'd think they'd save that for Starrcade but nope, Hogan main events the biggest show of the year in a crappy match with his pal Beefcake.

As bad as WCW was in 1999 the best built match they had that year was Goldberg v Sid and they did it at HH.

[rainandlava]

I guess the Trinity Of WCW Major shows for me are Starrcade, Halloween Havoc & Bash At The Beach.

Though SuperBrawl is definitely there if it's a tetrarchy. 

[Jindrak Mark]

May 31, 2022 16:56:01 GMT -5 tirtefaa said:

I guess considering how many events there were, I'd include Super brawl...but you otherwise named the rest.

I remember Superbrawl feeling like a big deal in 1998. You had the big Hogan/Sting rematch for the vacant title with the promise that there would be no controversy this time (of course being WCW there still ended up being a bunch of shenanigans and again Sting couldn't win clean). There was also Outsiders v Steiners with Scott turning heel on Rick and joining the NWO and Jericho unmasking Juvi.

To this day I don't get how Superbrawl 1999 was so successful though. By early 1999 WWF was riding sky high and WCW while not at 2000 levels was seemingly on the downslope. Somehow though it was the third highest PPV buyrate WCW ever did after Starrcade 97 and BATB 98. Something crazy like 485,000 buys which might have been more than Austin/Vince in a cage did a week earlier at St. Valentines Day Massacre. I can only think that Goldberg's streak ending and the fingerpoke weren't the deathblows history has written them as. People were pretty interested in the follow up but WCW just ended up not delivering. Hogan turned face a month after Superbrawl without getting any comeuppance then got injured while Goldberg had random feuds and was kept away from the main event. It makes you wonder if Hogan stays heel and Goldberg goes through the rest of the NWO before regaining the title from him in a big match at BATB (or Starrcade if they can stretch it that long) does WCW's business stay pretty good or does it still tank around spring 1999 and never recover.

[XaviersSS2015hair]

Starrcade WAS their big event before Bischoff took over. He freely admits he had no idea Starrcade was WCW / NWA's major yearly event. He also freely admits that he had no idea that the Four Horsemen were such a big deal to WCW's history. Because he's a clueless putz. Regardless, Bischoff says he viewed Halloween Havoc as WCW's big event.

[carter 15]

May 31, 2022 18:08:38 GMT -5 XaviersSS2015hair said:

Starrcade WAS their big event before Bischoff took over. He freely admits he had no idea Starrcade was WCW / NWA's major yearly event. He also freely admits that he had no idea that the Four Horsemen were such a big deal to WCW's history. Because he's a clueless putz. Regardless, Bischoff says he viewed Halloween Havoc as WCW's big event.

So that’s why he built WCWs biggest ever match over a year to main event starrcade, tag it the grand daddy of them all, then also book Goldberg to lose his first ever match the following year.

[XaviersSS2015hair]

May 31, 2022 18:22:09 GMT -5 carter 15 said:

May 31, 2022 18:08:38 GMT -5 XaviersSS2015hair said:

Starrcade WAS their big event before Bischoff took over. He freely admits he had no idea Starrcade was WCW / NWA's major yearly event. He also freely admits that he had no idea that the Four Horsemen were such a big deal to WCW's history. Because he's a clueless putz. Regardless, Bischoff says he viewed Halloween Havoc as WCW's big event.

So that’s why he built WCWs biggest ever match over a year to main event starrcade, tag it the grand daddy of them all, then also book Goldberg to lose his first ever match the following year.

I'm repeating what Bischoff has said several times on several different episodes of his own podcast. Feel free to give it a listen if you don't believe me.🤷‍♂️

[carter 15]

May 31, 2022 18:25:51 GMT -5 XaviersSS2015hair said:

May 31, 2022 18:22:09 GMT -5 carter 15 said:

So that’s why he built WCWs biggest ever match over a year to main event starrcade, tag it the grand daddy of them all, then also book Goldberg to lose his first ever match the following year.

I'm repeating what Bischoff has said several times on several different episodes of his own podcast. Feel free to give it a listen if you don't believe me.🤷‍♂️

Nah i’m not saying you’re wrong, i definitely believe he’d say that. It’s just clear to me Bischoff says a lot of things

[XaviersSS2015hair]

May 31, 2022 18:30:13 GMT -5 carter 15 said:

May 31, 2022 18:25:51 GMT -5 XaviersSS2015hair said:

I'm repeating what Bischoff has said several times on several different episodes of his own podcast. Feel free to give it a listen if you don't believe me.🤷‍♂️

Nah i’m not saying you’re wrong, i definitely believe he’d say that. It’s just clear to me Bischoff says a lot of things

He says a ton of things. Most of them unintentionally comical. Which is the only reason I listen every week lol.
Turner wanted a "non wrestling person" to run WCW and boy did they find one.

[hyperstorm]

May 31, 2022 18:08:38 GMT -5 XaviersSS2015hair said:

Starrcade WAS their big event before Bischoff took over. He freely admits he had no idea Starrcade was WCW / NWA's major yearly event. He also freely admits that he had no idea that the Four Horsemen were such a big deal to WCW's history. Because he's a clueless putz. Regardless, Bischoff says he viewed Halloween Havoc as WCW's big event.

Starrcade stopped being WCW's biggest event long before Bischoff even got to the company, Starrcade got downgraded pretty much as soon Dusty was gone, just look at Starrcade '89 which featured a grand total of zero title matches and was instead two meaningless tournaments with matches that got almost no time. After that Starrcade really only becomes the biggest event twice more, with the 10th Anniversary in '93 headlined by the Flair vs. Vader Career vs. Title match and in 97 with the year-long build to Sting vs. Hogan.

[XaviersSS2015hair]

May 31, 2022 18:48:47 GMT -5 hyperstorm said:

May 31, 2022 18:08:38 GMT -5 XaviersSS2015hair said:

Starrcade WAS their big event before Bischoff took over. He freely admits he had no idea Starrcade was WCW / NWA's major yearly event. He also freely admits that he had no idea that the Four Horsemen were such a big deal to WCW's history. Because he's a clueless putz. Regardless, Bischoff says he viewed Halloween Havoc as WCW's big event.

Starrcade stopped being WCW's biggest event long before Bischoff even got to the company, Starrcade got downgraded pretty much as soon Dusty was gone, just look at Starrcade '89 which featured a grand total of zero title matches and was instead two meaningless tournaments with matches that got almost no time. After that Starrcade really only becomes the biggest event twice more, with the 10th Anniversary in '93 headlined by the Flair vs. Vader Career vs. Title match and in 97 with the year-long build to Sting vs. Hogan.

Agreed. That was Jim Heard saying he "wanted something different" for Starrcade. Heard was the original clueless putz of WCW. Poor WCW never stood a chance with such ineptitude at the top for a majority of it's life span.
I think Dusty tried to rehab Starrcade in 93 but once Hogan came in the following year and basically had his hand up Bischoff's ass using him as a puppet we got Beefcake main eventing Starrcade and with the exception of 97 it was just another ppv.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

May 31, 2022 17:35:08 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

May 31, 2022 16:56:01 GMT -5 tirtefaa said:

I guess considering how many events there were, I'd include Super brawl...but you otherwise named the rest.

I remember Superbrawl feeling like a big deal in 1998. You had the big Hogan/Sting rematch for the vacant title with the promise that there would be no controversy this time (of course being WCW there still ended up being a bunch of shenanigans and again Sting couldn't win clean). There was also Outsiders v Steiners with Scott turning heel on Rick and joining the NWO and Jericho unmasking Juvi.

To this day I don't get how Superbrawl 1999 was so successful though. By early 1999 WWF was riding sky high and WCW while not at 2000 levels was seemingly on the downslope. Somehow though it was the third highest PPV buyrate WCW ever did after Starrcade 97 and BATB 98. Something crazy like 485,000 buys which might have been more than Austin/Vince in a cage did a week earlier at St. Valentines Day Massacre. I can only think that Goldberg's streak ending and the fingerpoke weren't the deathblows history has written them as. People were pretty interested in the follow up but WCW just ended up not delivering. Hogan turned face a month after Superbrawl without getting any comeuppance then got injured while Goldberg had random feuds and was kept away from the main event. It makes you wonder if Hogan stays heel and Goldberg goes through the rest of the NWO before regaining the title from him in a big match at BATB (or Starrcade if they can stretch it that long) does WCW's business stay pretty good or does it still tank around spring 1999 and never recover.

Hogan vs. Flair was still a huge draw, and it had been a long time since they had a singles matches together. Goldberg vs. Bigelow also had months of build with Bigelow being built as a renegade from outside of WCW that might have a chance at actually beating Goldberg clean. Throw in a simmering split on the Steiners and either Rey Mysterio Jr unmasking or Elizabeth being shaved bald and there's a ton of reasons for Superbrawl to draw a good buyrate.

[tafkaga]

WCW did some weird shit with their PPVs in the early 90's.

StarrCade '89 had the Future Shock tournament to determine "the wrestler to lead WCW into the 90's."
StarrCade '90 had the World's Collide tag team tournament.
StarrCade '91 and '92 were BattleBowl.

'93 was the first SC since '88 that they actually spent time building up to a big main event payoff.

They did similar with GAB.

'91 main event was a handicap match with Ric Steiner, Arn Anderson, Paul E. Dangerously.
'92 concluded a tag team tournament that started on Clash of the Champions.
Then there is no GAB in '93 and '94.

They basically sabotaged their two most recognizable events. Then they launch Wrestle War and SuperBrawl and end up swapping the months.

Beach Blast runs for two years then becomes Bash at the Beach.

Whether it was intentional or just a result of ineptitude, Halloween Havoc *was* their big show just because it was the only one they treated with any reverence.

[agent817]

May 31, 2022 17:07:05 GMT -5 rainandlava said:

I guess the Trinity Of WCW Major shows for me are Starrcade, Halloween Havoc & Bash At The Beach.

Though SuperBrawl is definitely there if it's a tetrarchy. 

The thing about SuperBrawl was that in 1997/1998, they tried to treat it as a big deal. I found it funny how in 1997, the winner of the World War 3 battle royal would get a shot at the world champion at SuperBrawl, which was three months after the event. That is quite a gap. Sure, I know that the WWF did that with the Royal Rumble winner getting a shot at Wrestlemania, but I think two months is a fairer deal because it gives time for the feud to build and stuff. For WCW, you had Starrcade and Souled Out in between, not sure what could be done in those two months before "the big one."

Then in 1998, the winner got a shot at Starrcade, only a month after. I remember that Tony Schiavone tried to sell it as a big one, dubbing it "the granddaddy of them all." Then you look at the card and notice that some matches are some that you would find on Nitro or Thunder, or even Saturday Night (to a lesser extent), such as Norman Smiley vs. Prince Iaukea, as well as Fit Finlay and Jerry Flynn vs. Brian Adams and Scott Norton, both of which didn't need to be on PPV at all.

[Jindrak Mark]

Jun 1, 2022 22:49:24 GMT -5 agent817 said:

May 31, 2022 17:07:05 GMT -5 rainandlava said:

I guess the Trinity Of WCW Major shows for me are Starrcade, Halloween Havoc & Bash At The Beach.

Though SuperBrawl is definitely there if it's a tetrarchy. 

The thing about SuperBrawl was that in 1997/1998, they tried to treat it as a big deal. I found it funny how in 1997, the winner of the World War 3 battle royal would get a shot at the world champion at SuperBrawl, which was three months after the event. That is quite a gap. Sure, I know that the WWF did that with the Royal Rumble winner getting a shot at Wrestlemania, but I think two months is a fairer deal because it gives time for the feud to build and stuff. For WCW, you had Starrcade and Souled Out in between, not sure what could be done in those two months before "the big one."

Then in 1998, the winner got a shot at Starrcade, only a month after. I remember that Tony Schiavone tried to sell it as a big one, dubbing it "the granddaddy of them all." Then you look at the card and notice that some matches are some that you would find on Nitro or Thunder, or even Saturday Night (to a lesser extent), such as Norman Smiley vs. Prince Iaukea, as well as Fit Finlay and Jerry Flynn vs. Brian Adams and Scott Norton, both of which didn't need to be on PPV at all.

I don’t know what happened with Starrcade 1998. Did they have a massive injury crisis? So many big names weren’t on the show which led to so much filler like you mentioned.

I don’t think it was simply injuries though because if you look up results from just before and after the show plenty of guys were wrestling on TV but just not on Starrcade for whatever reason. Where was Steiner? Or Luger. Bret. Piper. Booker. Benoit. Malenko. Hennig. Raven. Surely you could get a couple decent matches out of those names before having to use Jerry Flynn or Prince Iaukea on the biggest show of the year. Hall was on the show but not in a match. Warrior was under contract but not trusted to work another match after the abomination at Havoc. Sting I think was actually injured. Savage and Hogan had been gone for a while but returned 1 and 8 days later, respectively.

[buckethead]

May 31, 2022 18:48:47 GMT -5 hyperstorm said:

May 31, 2022 18:08:38 GMT -5 XaviersSS2015hair said:

Starrcade WAS their big event before Bischoff took over. He freely admits he had no idea Starrcade was WCW / NWA's major yearly event. He also freely admits that he had no idea that the Four Horsemen were such a big deal to WCW's history. Because he's a clueless putz. Regardless, Bischoff says he viewed Halloween Havoc as WCW's big event.

Starrcade stopped being WCW's biggest event long before Bischoff even got to the company, Starrcade got downgraded pretty much as soon Dusty was gone, just look at Starrcade '89 which featured a grand total of zero title matches and was instead two meaningless tournaments with matches that got almost no time.

They lost me as a fan for a few years in the lead up to that nonsense. Still can't believe they pulled that crap. Nobody cared.

I didn't start watching again until late 92/early 93.