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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 7, 2022 17:30:42 GMT -5
The failure of EliteXC is all on the guys running it. Kimbo had built up an aura during the early days of YouTube by knocking out out of shape guys with no boxing/fight experience when it was clear that Kimbo had some boxing training. EliteXC should have fed him a series of cans where Kimbo KO’s them with extreme ferocity, because once he lost his aura was compromised and then what’s the plan? I miss Kimbo though, he did the best that he could, always worked hard, and from all accounts he was good dude that was only fighting so that his family could have some money. I’m glad that he had some success. He did get cans tho to start Some guy I don't even remember and he fought an old ass Tank Abbot in his 2nd fight. Then a journeyman his 3rd fight if I remember correctly before getting knocked by Seth. They tried to push him real hard in less than a year span and put him in a spot he most likely shouldn't have been in as the headlining star on their CBS broadcast It did get them major ratings but they never hit that again
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Post by Defrebel - White Pony on Aug 7, 2022 17:33:35 GMT -5
It was the main event and he f***ed up everything they had built Sort of reminds me of Cain/JDS for the Fox show as well where Cain was trying to become a draw with the machine behind him and he got knocked out and that was end of that I don’t think the Fox loss hurt Cain as much as the Werdum loss did. They booked a show in Mexico just for Cain to defend and dude gets picked apart and booed by the people there Yeah after that is when the unfortunate/hilarious distinction of Sea Level Cain got made and like all the circumstances around that with him barely spending any time in Mexico while Werdum had pretty much moved there months beforehand with his whole camp just made him look kinda silly.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Aug 7, 2022 19:01:42 GMT -5
Chael Sonnen's second loss to Silva was the bullet that mortally wounded Sonnen's prospects since it made his first performance against Silva look like a PED fueled fluke . He was still a draw, but he wasn't really ever a major contender again after that having one more high profile fight which mainly just came of Hendo pulling out of a fight with Jones, Sonnen filling in on short notice, the fight being canned due to Jones refusing, and Sonnen continuing to talk shit. Losing to Jones was the final nail in the coffin, since his two losses to Silva made a third crack no longer viable and it was clear he couldn't hang in the Light Heavyweight Division with naturally larger athletes, so really he was just an entertaining loud mouth who was really little more than a gate keeper. I love Chael, but this is spot on. With that first Silva fight, Chael came off as an elite fighter that just got sloppy and allowed Silva to win. The second Silva fight showed this wasn’t the case. Sonnen only got the Jones fight because of the reasons you mentioned. Although I would have marked if Chael lasted a little longer and won the fight due to Jones’ freak injury. I mean he did well in the first round of the Silva rematch and then the guy who is pretty much as pure a wrestler as you'll find tried a spinning backfist...
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Aug 7, 2022 19:29:42 GMT -5
Ronda Rousey has to be way up at the top of this list.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Aug 7, 2022 19:39:34 GMT -5
Ronda Rousey has to be way up at the top of this list. Her return fight after losing got over a million PPV buys, the same as the Holm fight, so there was no noticeable loss of drawing power. And honestly even though everyone knows there's a 95% chance she'd lose, if she announced tomorrow that she was returning to UFC her comeback fight would probably do great business for them.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 7, 2022 19:41:34 GMT -5
Ronda Rousey has to be way up at the top of this list. That L for sure hurt her drawing power on everything she was doing tho I think it was more so how defeated she looked but the Nunez did the lasting damage cause it showed she was done. Ronda put so much into being undefeated that once she wasn't she was done when she really could have still been a good enough draw After the Nunez fight is when everything dried up. She was getting movie roles just to stand there and scowl or being given roles like she supposedly was for a Road House remake. That all died with the Nunez L as her full drawing power went out the window
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Aug 7, 2022 20:45:44 GMT -5
Pacquiao losing by unanimous decision to Jeff Horn in the most obvious modern case of "we gotta have the hometown boy win" that I've ever seen. I remember watching the fight live at a bar and we almost started a riot because it was such clear bullshit.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Aug 8, 2022 3:42:10 GMT -5
I love Chael, but this is spot on. With that first Silva fight, Chael came off as an elite fighter that just got sloppy and allowed Silva to win. The second Silva fight showed this wasn’t the case. Sonnen only got the Jones fight because of the reasons you mentioned. Although I would have marked if Chael lasted a little longer and won the fight due to Jones’ freak injury. I mean he did well in the first round of the Silva rematch and then the guy who is pretty much as pure a wrestler as you'll find tried a spinning backfist... Sonnen won the first Silva fight as far I'm concerned. There's several times where they should have stopped it. But he was the golden boy.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 8, 2022 5:50:18 GMT -5
Ronda Rousey has to be way up at the top of this list. That L for sure hurt her drawing power on everything she was doing tho I think it was more so how defeated she looked but the Nunez did the lasting damage cause it showed she was done. Ronda put so much into being undefeated that once she wasn't she was done when she really could have still been a good enough draw After the Nunez fight is when everything dried up. She was getting movie roles just to stand there and scowl or being given roles like she supposedly was for a Road House remake. That all died with the Nunez L as her full drawing power went out the window Ronda is kind of a dirtbag, but I did feel a bit bad for her when people were trying to paint her as someone who was never that great, that Holm and Nunez exposed her, etc. I do think the Holm loss exposed the cracks, especially how clearly shaken she was by it, but Nunez ended up being one of those situations where, yeah, she beat Ronda like a drum, but then it just kind of turned out Nunez is one of the best to ever do it, period. Not really a strike on Ronda to get beaten by someone like that. Still, it definitely did expose her limits, and more damaging, it laid her bare, with her supposedly becoming suicidal, and just kind of getting humiliated. It definitely hurt her prospects outside of MMA, though WWE obviously has been a good gig for her, and she still got a job playing Sonya in MKX despite being a terrible actress. It doesn't quite fit the thread since she absolutely would still sell tickets for UFC if she somehow came back for a fight, but Hollywood definitely is much less interested now. She could probably do some Cynthia Rothrock-style direct to Redbox movies, but that'd be about it for starring roles.
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Aug 8, 2022 6:36:20 GMT -5
There were a lot of problems with Ronda but one of the biggest was after she got a couple of KO’s she thought that she was some kind of striker and stood and traded with Holly, who is a legit boxing and kickboxing champion and an even worse idea with Nunes. Though you could tell her heart wasn’t into it as soon as Nunes hit her. She probably would have gotten rocked either way but she may have had better showings if she tried to clinch and use her judo.
I remember some boxing magazines were talking about maybe she gets into boxing but clearly they’ve never seen her shadowboxing much less her actual striking. Dana had the hype train in full effect. lol
Holly exposed her one dimensionality and Nunes took her soul. I don’t think that I’ve ever seen a fighter go from unbeatable to washed so quickly.
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Post by karl100589 on Aug 8, 2022 11:44:01 GMT -5
There were a lot of problems with Ronda but one of the biggest was after she got a couple of KO’s she thought that she was some kind of striker and stood and traded with Holly, who is a legit boxing and kickboxing champion and an even worse idea with Nunes. Though you could tell her heart wasn’t into it as soon as Nunes hit her. She probably would have gotten rocked either way but she may have had better showings if she tried to clinch and use her judo. I remember some boxing magazines were talking about maybe she gets into boxing but clearly they’ve never seen her shadowboxing much less her actual striking. Dana had the hype train in full effect. lol Holly exposed her one dimensionality and Nunes took her soul. I don’t think that I’ve ever seen a fighter go from unbeatable to washed so quickly. Modern Ronda would still armbar Pena in a minute.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Aug 8, 2022 14:47:30 GMT -5
I mean he did well in the first round of the Silva rematch and then the guy who is pretty much as pure a wrestler as you'll find tried a spinning backfist... Sonnen won the first Silva fight as far I'm concerned. There's several times where they should have stopped it. But he was the golden boy. I strongly disagree for multiple reasons. 1: PEDs would have rendered any win a No Contest. 2: Silva was still very clearly defending himself the whole fight. He was taking a lot of punishment but at no point would I say that he had sustained such substantial damage that he was in danger of permanently risking his health, and he was intelligently defending himself at all times. 3: Silva was NOT the golden boy of UFC at this point and he was in the dog house pretty big. He was coming off of two of the most infamous title defenses in UFC history, with one of them being so bad Dana White refused to even put the belt on him because it was such an embarrassment to him and the company at large. Dana White was BEGGING for somebody to take the title off of him at that point.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Aug 8, 2022 15:39:26 GMT -5
Sonnen won the first Silva fight as far I'm concerned. There's several times where they should have stopped it. But he was the golden boy. I strongly disagree for multiple reasons. 1: PEDs would have rendered any win a No Contest. 2: Silva was still very clearly defending himself the whole fight. He was taking a lot of punishment but at no point would I say that he had sustained such substantial damage that he was in danger of permanently risking his health, and he was intelligently defending himself at all times. 3: Silva was NOT the golden boy of UFC at this point and he was in the dog house pretty big. He was coming off of two of the most infamous title defenses in UFC history, with one of them being so bad Dana White refused to even put the belt on him because it was such an embarrassment to him and the company at large. Dana White was BEGGING for somebody to take the title off of him at that point. Eh... Silva was a draw, whether Dana liked him or not. And we must have watched different fights, cuz Sonnen beat the breaks off that boy. There were several times that the ref should have stepped in.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Aug 8, 2022 16:49:41 GMT -5
I strongly disagree for multiple reasons. 1: PEDs would have rendered any win a No Contest. 2: Silva was still very clearly defending himself the whole fight. He was taking a lot of punishment but at no point would I say that he had sustained such substantial damage that he was in danger of permanently risking his health, and he was intelligently defending himself at all times. 3: Silva was NOT the golden boy of UFC at this point and he was in the dog house pretty big. He was coming off of two of the most infamous title defenses in UFC history, with one of them being so bad Dana White refused to even put the belt on him because it was such an embarrassment to him and the company at large. Dana White was BEGGING for somebody to take the title off of him at that point. Eh... Silva was a draw, whether Dana liked him or not. And we must have watched different fights, cuz Sonnen beat the breaks off that boy. There were several times that the ref should have stepped in. I have watched the fight many times and I can not find one instance in which Silva was doing little enough to justify stopping the match. He was defending himself still, he was able to walk to his corner on his own power, he seemed to be possessed of his faculties at all times during the fight, so while yes Sonnen was beating seven shades of dogshit out of him, there was never a point in those five rounds that I could justify a technical knockout as Silva was able to continue in each instance.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 8, 2022 19:24:09 GMT -5
That L for sure hurt her drawing power on everything she was doing tho I think it was more so how defeated she looked but the Nunez did the lasting damage cause it showed she was done. Ronda put so much into being undefeated that once she wasn't she was done when she really could have still been a good enough draw After the Nunez fight is when everything dried up. She was getting movie roles just to stand there and scowl or being given roles like she supposedly was for a Road House remake. That all died with the Nunez L as her full drawing power went out the window Ronda is kind of a dirtbag, but I did feel a bit bad for her when people were trying to paint her as someone who was never that great, that Holm and Nunez exposed her, etc. I do think the Holm loss exposed the cracks, especially how clearly shaken she was by it, but Nunez ended up being one of those situations where, yeah, she beat Ronda like a drum, but then it just kind of turned out Nunez is one of the best to ever do it, period. Not really a strike on Ronda to get beaten by someone like that. Still, it definitely did expose her limits, and more damaging, it laid her bare, with her supposedly becoming suicidal, and just kind of getting humiliated. It definitely hurt her prospects outside of MMA, though WWE obviously has been a good gig for her, and she still got a job playing Sonya in MKX despite being a terrible actress. It doesn't quite fit the thread since she absolutely would still sell tickets for UFC if she somehow came back for a fight, but Hollywood definitely is much less interested now. She could probably do some Cynthia Rothrock-style direct to Redbox movies, but that'd be about it for starring roles. Oh don't get me wrong, Ronda is still a draw. WWE was the perfect fallback for her and she could got to UFC and pop a rating but it is def farther from what she probably would had done which is star in a few movies (before they realized she really can't act) and just be able to walk around with a different air as "the baddest woman on the planet" She was unfairly judged as far as her ability after the Holm fight and she had no soul for the Nunez fight which everyone expected for her to be put on her ass. She brought into her own hype (rightfully so) but besides her being an ass in real life, her fight persona rubbed wrong too. Like the whole build of the Holm fight was Ronda trying to find ways to build up controversy to give herself motivation after he previous opponents gave her that fuel. No one liked the way she treated Holm and when she got knocked on her ass no one felt sorry for her. Ronda isn't the mega draw she could been or probably with a hundred mill or so in or ban account but she is def still living a good life and made the best pivot she could have since she loved wrestling and smart on WWE for picking her up
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,422
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Post by XIII on Aug 8, 2022 19:28:20 GMT -5
There were a lot of problems with Ronda but one of the biggest was after she got a couple of KO’s she thought that she was some kind of striker and stood and traded with Holly, who is a legit boxing and kickboxing champion and an even worse idea with Nunes. Though you could tell her heart wasn’t into it as soon as Nunes hit her. She probably would have gotten rocked either way but she may have had better showings if she tried to clinch and use her judo. I remember some boxing magazines were talking about maybe she gets into boxing but clearly they’ve never seen her shadowboxing much less her actual striking. Dana had the hype train in full effect. lol Holly exposed her one dimensionality and Nunes took her soul. I don’t think that I’ve ever seen a fighter go from unbeatable to washed so quickly. Modern Ronda would still armbar Pena in a minute. Nah, Pena definitely isn’t on elite level but she did last 5 rounds with Nunes beating the brakes off of her, which is more than can be said about Ronda.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 8, 2022 19:35:17 GMT -5
Modern Ronda would still armbar Pena in a minute. Nah, Pena definitely isn’t on elite level but she did last 5 rounds with Nunes beating the brakes off of her, which is more than can be said about Ronda. Ehhh, her lasting 5 rounds isn't really an accomplishment
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 8, 2022 19:41:01 GMT -5
Yeah the most obvious is, Ronda.
Her entire schtick was "Baddest woman on the planet" and being "undefeatable"... she was a massive crossover star... her loss basically had all of the movies that she was involved with cancelled...
that said she could have come back from the Holm fight... everyone loves a comeback story...
What absolutely killed her was the Nunes fight where she absolutely didn't want to be there.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 8, 2022 19:57:48 GMT -5
Roy Jones getting knocked the f*** out by Tarver in their 3rd fight really killed all his drawing power after that
He won the HW title and then fought Tarver and won and everyone gave him a pass that 1st fight because of the weight cut down and all that. Then he fought Tarver again and got knocked out after Tarver gave him the infamous "You got any excuses tonight, Roy?". Fought Glen Johnson and got knocked out again this time with his album cover gracing the ring. They drew good money for Tarver/Jones III but it was clear Roy was done as a draw as his elite athleticism left him and the skills deteriorated.
Tho with that said him and Felix Trinidad had a mega draw fight which was basically a "dream fight" so that sold it despite the fact Roy was closing in on 40 and Felix Trinidad hadn't boxed in like 2 years and this would be his last fight
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Aug 8, 2022 20:07:10 GMT -5
Nah, Pena definitely isn’t on elite level but she did last 5 rounds with Nunes beating the brakes off of her, which is more than can be said about Ronda. Ehhh, her lasting 5 rounds isn't really an accomplishment Better than lasting 48 seconds and looking like you’ve never been in a fight before. lol
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