Question About Dan Severn Shooting in The Royal Rumble....

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Aug 10, 2022 5:24:31 GMT -5 msc said:

I don't think Severn was being serious. More just shooting the breeze, talking hypotheticals. Though I think WWF took him serious as Blackman was in there at the same time. Severn was a legend but my money was always on Steve in any legit fight.

Also you can shoot eliminate people. Hogan did it to Hercules in a battle royale once and herc got fired directly after. Think in retaliation for no selling Sid's offence?

Of course you could. But 29 of them?

[msc]

Aug 10, 2022 9:30:21 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Aug 10, 2022 5:24:31 GMT -5 msc said:

I don't think Severn was being serious. More just shooting the breeze, talking hypotheticals. Though I think WWF took him serious as Blackman was in there at the same time. Severn was a legend but my money was always on Steve in any legit fight.

Also you can shoot eliminate people. Hogan did it to Hercules in a battle royale once and herc got fired directly after. Think in retaliation for no selling Sid's offence?

Of course you could. But 29 of them?

Of course not. I presume one example in the whole history of battle royale matches doesn't presume such an idea was possible!

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Aug 10, 2022 5:24:31 GMT -5 msc said:

Hogan did it to Hercules in a battle royale once and herc got fired directly after. Think in retaliation for no selling Sid's offence?

It's a common assumption that Herc was fired that night, but he actually worked a house show the next night, working as a face against Berzerker (and losing).

[Mozenrath]

On the topic of Hogan and Hercules, I don't think him tossing Herc was a shoot, exactly, but I do think that having Hogan do it wasn't an accident since it'd be known Hogan is not likely someone Hercules would have shot on. Hogan had loyalty from people since, as the top star, the WWF's profits were seen as largely on his shoulders, and so when guys got big payoffs from house show circuit, etc, they saw it as due to Hogan. Additionally, despite Gagne trying to pay Iron Sheik to injure Hogan early on and Sheik ignoring the bribe offer, there would have been no celebrating even in the NWA, etc, if someone DID shoot on Hogan and try to expose him. As the stop star in wrestling, the fortunes of the wrestling industry were tied to him in no small amount. If Hogan was made to look bad, real bad, then it would have potentially damaged wrestling as a whole. Hercules would not have been a popular guy had that happened, nor would he be acting in his best interest.

Generally speaking, if you're a guy who is about to be looking for work, you also don't make yourself out to be a dickhead who goes into business for himself.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Once there was more than one guy opposing him he's done. He's an incredibly skilled fighter, but he wasn't beating 2 or more guys at once.

[sungod2020]

Aug 10, 2022 12:43:22 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

On the topic of Hogan and Hercules, I don't think him tossing Herc was a shoot, exactly, but I do think that having Hogan do it wasn't an accident since it'd be known Hogan is not likely someone Hercules would have shot on. Hogan had loyalty from people since, as the top star, the WWF's profits were seen as largely on his shoulders, and so when guys got big payoffs from house show circuit, etc, they saw it as due to Hogan. Additionally, despite Gagne trying to pay Iron Sheik to injure Hogan early on and Sheik ignoring the bribe offer, there would have been no celebrating even in the NWA, etc, if someone DID shoot on Hogan and try to expose him. As the stop star in wrestling, the fortunes of the wrestling industry were tied to him in no small amount. If Hogan was made to look bad, real bad, then it would have potentially damaged wrestling as a whole. Hercules would not have been a popular guy had that happened, nor would he be acting in his best interest.

Generally speaking, if you're a guy who is about to be looking for work, you also don't make yourself out to be a dickhead who goes into business for himself.

Then explain how The Steiners were not only able to get steady employment by several promotions, but Scott even getting a singles push despite having a penchant for dropping jobbers on their heads just for fun.

[Mozenrath]

Aug 10, 2022 13:01:11 GMT -5 sungod2020 said:

Aug 10, 2022 12:43:22 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

On the topic of Hogan and Hercules, I don't think him tossing Herc was a shoot, exactly, but I do think that having Hogan do it wasn't an accident since it'd be known Hogan is not likely someone Hercules would have shot on. Hogan had loyalty from people since, as the top star, the WWF's profits were seen as largely on his shoulders, and so when guys got big payoffs from house show circuit, etc, they saw it as due to Hogan. Additionally, despite Gagne trying to pay Iron Sheik to injure Hogan early on and Sheik ignoring the bribe offer, there would have been no celebrating even in the NWA, etc, if someone DID shoot on Hogan and try to expose him. As the stop star in wrestling, the fortunes of the wrestling industry were tied to him in no small amount. If Hogan was made to look bad, real bad, then it would have potentially damaged wrestling as a whole. Hercules would not have been a popular guy had that happened, nor would he be acting in his best interest.

Generally speaking, if you're a guy who is about to be looking for work, you also don't make yourself out to be a dickhead who goes into business for himself.

Then explain how The Steiners were not only able to get steady employment by several promotions, but Scott even getting a singles push despite having a penchant for dropping jobbers on their heads just for fun.

Being a jerk has never completely disqualified someone from gainful employment, but it wasn't why Rick and Scott got hired, either. It was because the Steiners were a draw.

It's not like Hercules was a total no-name or anything, but he wasn't in a position like Sid where he could get another job pretty easily despite eviscerating Arn Anderson, for instance. (Granted, Arn stabbed him, too, which people often leave out of the story, Arn just lost that fight.)

[One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel]

[celtics543]

I don't think you'd have to actually eliminate Severn regardless. Just have the entire ministry go out and restrain him to get him out of the ring. You just have to get him backstage and then it's over (other than the ministry guys kicking the crap out of him).

There's no way he could shoot in the Rumble. If he really wanted to shoot and make it impactful he would have done it in some way with Austin. I don't know if he was ever in the ring with Steve but that would have been the time. Otherwise, he's not beating 29 people nor is he even going to be given that opportunity. Hell, they could have had the lights go out and the whole ministry jump him just to make it easier.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

Aug 10, 2022 14:13:13 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Aug 10, 2022 13:01:11 GMT -5 sungod2020 said:

Then explain how The Steiners were not only able to get steady employment by several promotions, but Scott even getting a singles push despite having a penchant for dropping jobbers on their heads just for fun.

Being a jerk has never completely disqualified someone from gainful employment, but it wasn't why Rick and Scott got hired, either. It was because the Steiners were a draw.

It's not like Hercules was a total no-name or anything, but he wasn't in a position like Sid where he could get another job pretty easily despite eviscerating Arn Anderson, for instance. (Granted, Arn stabbed him, too, which people often leave out of the story, Arn just lost that fight.)

Hercules ended up getting hired the next month by WCW where he debuted under a mask as the Super Invader. I wonder if he was already in talks with WCW and close to an agreement which is why he acted the way he did that night at MSG. I'm honestly surprised they sent him back out there for the battle royal after how he acted in the Sid match.

I do think you are spot on with the Hogan thing. I suspected that it was a shoot elimination and Hogan had orders due to look of shock on Hercules face after he gets eliminated but that was probably just him selling. If you watch it Hercules does look like he's cooperating. It's a little clunky but nothing really that out of the ordinary. Along with Herc likely having respect for Hogan I think they were at least fairly good friends in real life. I remember in a shoot interview with King Kong Bundy when talking about Hercules he mentioned Hogan one time saying how he was going to go talk to Vince because "they were jobbing Herc too much". If Hogan was willing to go to bat for them they must have been decently close and therefore like you Herc would've been more willing to play ball and not try anything as apposed to maybe if it was someone else.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Aug 10, 2022 12:54:36 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Once there was more than one guy opposing him he's done. He's an incredibly skilled fighter, but he wasn't beating 2 or more guys at once.

People are acting like once they discover Severn is shooting, the guys are just gonna go down and try a double leg hook or some shit. They’ll kick him in the damn head or more likely wear him out with a chair.

There’s no rules in a real fight. At the real point stage, you’re not there to make friends.

[stoptheclocks]

The whole idea and visuals of this is hilarious.

I would pay good money to see a shoot Royal Rumble.

[One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel]

Aug 10, 2022 16:56:21 GMT -5 stoptheclocks said:

The whole idea and visuals of this is hilarious.

I would pay good money to see a shoot Royal Rumble.

We need to return the Rumble to its most primal roots after Bad Bunny laid in the corner like an upper midcard dude waiting to strike cause nothing's topping that

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Aug 10, 2022 16:56:21 GMT -5 stoptheclocks said:

I would pay good money to see a shoot Royal Rumble.

Yokozuna curls up into a foetal position in the middle of the ring and the Rumble is declared a no contest when nobody is able to move him for the next four hours.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Aug 10, 2022 14:36:08 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Aug 10, 2022 12:54:36 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Once there was more than one guy opposing him he's done. He's an incredibly skilled fighter, but he wasn't beating 2 or more guys at once.

People are acting like once they discover Severn is shooting, the guys are just gonna go down and try a double leg hook or some shit. They’ll kick him in the damn head or more likely wear him out with a chair.

There’s no rules in a real fight. At the real point stage, you’re not there to make friends.

It reminds me of the old "What happens if Brock decides to shoot?" threads on the WWE section, where people would name like all the dudes with amateur wrestling or boxing experience as who Vince would run out to stomp him, like it matters. They aren't ninjas facing an action hero. They aren't going to try and submit him, they're going to restrain him, grab his limbs, and beat the f*** out of the guy until he stops moving. Shots to the head, shots to the gut, f***ing groin kicks, whatever it takes to get someone to stop moving because someone who turns a wrestling match into that much of a shoot is a liability and a danger to everyone's safety, let alone to the show or whatever. It would play out more similarly to the guy who jumped Bret Hart at the Hall of Fame.

[sungod2020]

Aug 10, 2022 17:17:08 GMT -5 This Player Hating Mothman said:

Aug 10, 2022 14:36:08 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

People are acting like once they discover Severn is shooting, the guys are just gonna go down and try a double leg hook or some shit. They’ll kick him in the damn head or more likely wear him out with a chair.

There’s no rules in a real fight. At the real point stage, you’re not there to make friends.

It reminds me of the old "What happens if Brock decides to shoot?" threads on the WWE section, where people would name like all the dudes with amateur wrestling or boxing experience as who Vince would run out to stomp him, like it matters. They aren't ninjas facing an action hero. They aren't going to try and submit him, they're going to restrain him, grab his limbs, and beat the f*** out of the guy until he stops moving. Shots to the head, shots to the gut, f***ing groin kicks, whatever it takes to get someone to stop moving because someone who turns a wrestling match into that much of a shoot is a liability and a danger to everyone's safety, let alone to the show or whatever. It would play out more similarly to the guy who jumped Bret Hart at the Hall of Fame.

I don't think anybody expects those with actual fighting training to perform submission holds on Brock or Severn if they started shooting in a battle royal. They meant that they would gang up on them and the fact that they can defend themselves in a real fight helps. In fact, depending on when either of them started shooting, we might not know at first and think it's part of the script until maybe security(or the police) come up and cuff them.

It's very possible the camera would cut away once it's apparent that it wasn't part of the storyline as I'm sure after they get eliminated for real, they'll still be beating up on them until help arrives.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Aug 10, 2022 18:56:49 GMT -5 sungod2020 said:

Aug 10, 2022 17:17:08 GMT -5 This Player Hating Mothman said:

It reminds me of the old "What happens if Brock decides to shoot?" threads on the WWE section, where people would name like all the dudes with amateur wrestling or boxing experience as who Vince would run out to stomp him, like it matters. They aren't ninjas facing an action hero. They aren't going to try and submit him, they're going to restrain him, grab his limbs, and beat the f*** out of the guy until he stops moving. Shots to the head, shots to the gut, f***ing groin kicks, whatever it takes to get someone to stop moving because someone who turns a wrestling match into that much of a shoot is a liability and a danger to everyone's safety, let alone to the show or whatever. It would play out more similarly to the guy who jumped Bret Hart at the Hall of Fame.

I don't think anybody expects those with actual fighting training to perform submission holds on Brock or Severn if they started shooting in a battle royal. They meant that they would gang up on them and the fact that they can defend themselves in a real fight helps. In fact, depending on when either of them started shooting, we might not know at first and think it's part of the script until maybe security(or the police) come up and cuff them.

It's very possible the camera would cut away once it's apparent that it wasn't part of the storyline as I'm sure after they get eliminated for real, they'll still be beating up on them until help arrives.

The ability to defend themself won't matter when it's one guy and there's six of them. You aren't going to have a dedicated band of shooters for that, you're going to send out anyone who can probably, believably contribute to gangbang up on the guy.

[Deleted]

Severn lost all respect from me when he basically said that all wrestling fans are mentally challenged.

[The Rick Jericho]

Aug 10, 2022 16:58:59 GMT -5 One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel said:

Aug 10, 2022 16:56:21 GMT -5 stoptheclocks said:

The whole idea and visuals of this is hilarious.

I would pay good money to see a shoot Royal Rumble.

We need to return the Rumble to its most primal roots after Bad Bunny laid in the corner like an upper midcard dude waiting to strike cause nothing's topping that

Entrants:

1. Ken Shamrock
2. Dan Severn
3. Tank Abbott
4. Daniel Puder

Everyone can feel free to add to the list.

[fw91]

Aug 10, 2022 20:43:46 GMT -5 The Rick Jericho said:

Aug 10, 2022 16:58:59 GMT -5 One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel said:

We need to return the Rumble to its most primal roots after Bad Bunny laid in the corner like an upper midcard dude waiting to strike cause nothing's topping that

Entrants:

1. Ken Shamrock
2. Dan Severn
3. Tank Abbott
4. Daniel Puder

Everyone can feel free to add to the list.

5. Brock Lesnar
6. Haku
7. Sumo Guy