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Post by sungod2020 on Aug 9, 2022 10:18:30 GMT -5
As we all know, Dan "The Beast" Severn was one of the most (legit) toughest guys that ever stepped foot in a pro wrestling ring. I think it's safe to say he can manhandle over 95% of the roster, in any company, in any era, especially in 98/99 WWF. With having amateur wrestling and mix martial arts under his belt, it's best to keep on his good side which is what much of the locker room did by addressing him as "Mr. Severn" backstage.
Despite having MMA and pro wrestling success(in other companies), it didn't translate into the World Wrestling Federation. Especially in the Attitude Era where showmanship was more important than in-ring ability. The fact that he came off as a High School Guidance Counselor/Gym Coach rather than your typical wrestling monster didn't help matters.
It a shoot interview, The Beast stated he was considering shooting in the Royal Rumble match as a way to get back at the company for how they booked him. If he was serious about it, then he's delusional(I hope to god he's not reading this for fear of him coming to find me).
Lets just say for the sake of this thread, he tried to shoot in the match, what are the chances of him actually succeeding at it? Mind you he came in at number 8 and lower card guys Edge, Droz, and Steve Blackman were in the ring. After him came Tiger Ali Singh and Blue Meanie. Then at number 11 would be big Mabel who cleared house(with the exception of Edge, who was eliminated by Road Dogg).
At what point would he start shooting? Mr. Severn maybe strong and take Vis out in a real fight, but I can't see any non-work way he can lift him over the top rope, since he has a high case of gravity, and it would take a huge number of guys to legit throw him over the top rope. And then there's other big dudes like Kurrgan, Kane, Test, and Mark Henry. Not to mention another MMA fighter(who he traded victories with) Ken Shamrock. I can't see a feasible way for him to get past Mabel, let alone all those other guys if the ring fills up.
I don't know how the Rumble match is constructed behind the scenes, but I'm pretty sure the participants are told how long they'll be in for, and somebody will eventually notice he was hanging on longer than he was told.
Also, since the planned winner was Vince McMahon, and the runner up was "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, both of whom didn't get back into the match until the very end, there's no realistic way that can happen. If he drew a later number and started shooting, maybe, but even then I don't know.
Anybody have more context to this?
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 9, 2022 11:08:11 GMT -5
I don't care how tough you are, you are not singlehandedly legit eliminating every single entrant.
Removing fight talent from the equation and just talking about dead weight. This Rumble had Quake, Kane, Viscera.
Dan Severn is a scary scary man and if he decided to shoot in the Battle Riot, I genuinely think he might have a shot if he just knocked people out one at a time quickly enough. But the Rumble has specific rules.
Quite apart from which, it would be a great way to get yourself blackballed from everywhere if you're lucky and thrown in prison if you aren't.
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 9, 2022 11:22:42 GMT -5
I think once it became clear what he was doing Vince or his help would send in some big guys, most likely the Corporation guys like Bossman, Test and Shamrock to get him out of there. And they could portray it in storyline form-that Vince was having them take out the main threat. Dan might be able to get some shooting in but 29 guys who needed the paycheck versus Dan who was on his way out anyway, might not be good for Dan. They could even bring out more help with the ministry (including Simmons and Bradshaw who would love an opportunity to prove themselves as bad @$$es on PPV) to kidnap Dan away so it's more than just 29 guys. Just look at guys coming out of the woodwork to verbally praise Vince these days. 20+ years earlier at the height of WWF popularity when many were the most rich and famous they would ever be would do whatever it takes to save Vince from Dan killing the rumble gimmick and storyline and hurting the company.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Aug 9, 2022 12:04:27 GMT -5
There’s a reason handicap matches don’t exist in competitive combat sports. Even in street fights, 2 vs. 1 can be very difficult to overcome even if the 1 is considerably tougher than the 2. All Vince would need to do is tell 2 of the guys coming in to shoot back on Severn and that eliminates that problem.
The only way Severn could win the whole is if they book him to be part of the final few and then goes into business for himself. Even then the next night on Raw they write in whatever storyline they need to for the win to be invalidated and Severn is never seen in a WWF ring again.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Aug 9, 2022 12:12:26 GMT -5
LOL. I didn't realize his threat to shoot the rumble was some sort of payback scheme. I thought he wanted to do it just for the sport of it.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Aug 9, 2022 12:28:09 GMT -5
Yeah I know Severn was a very good combat sports fighter, but he wouldn't be shooting on bums from the bar. He would be shooting on incredibly tough men, many of who are much bigger than him and he'd be fighting more than one. Also they wouldn't take too kindly to someone trying to make them look like fools in front of thousands of people. I don't think he would get very far and he might get his ass kicked himself.
Plus, you're coming into the ring with Steve Blackman (a shoot fighter himself who is more than capable of reciprocating), Droz (a former NFL offensive lineman who's significantly bigger than Severn), and Edge (who is not exactly a small man). I don't care how legit you are, you aren't winning that 3 on 1. And certainly not if Vince sends out more people from the back. Being a successful UFC fighter doesn't make you Batman.
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 9, 2022 12:50:40 GMT -5
I imagine it was an idle thought moreso than a realistic plan he considered on any front. I do remember he is generally pretty well thought of.
One of my favorite Severn stories was him working a match and Owen watching it or being in it, I forget which. Foley asked Owen how it was.
"He's a really nice guy." "I didn't ask how nice he was, I asked how good he was." "He's a really nice guy."
Mick wrestled him or otherwise got to see a match of his up close and determined that he was indeed a nice guy.
I am not sure if the suggestion is that he wasn't that good, but he was so nice that people didn't dump on him for it, like Dave Sullivan, or if it was a Haku/Finlay/Regal/Norman Smiley thing where they're nice because they could easily cause you harm and they didn't do it. Maybe he was just considerate in general in the ring. I mean, it was sure as hell not top years for them, but I suppose him getting the NWA title twice might suggest the latter, that he was someone who had credibility but also wasn't a shithead about it.
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Post by sungod2020 on Aug 9, 2022 12:59:50 GMT -5
Yeah I know Severn was a very good combat sports fighter, but he wouldn't be shooting on bums from the bar. He would be shooting on incredibly tough men, many of who are much bigger than him and he'd be fighting more than one. Also they wouldn't take too kindly to someone trying to make them look like fools in front of thousands of people. I don't think he would get very far and he might get his ass kicked himself. Plus, you're coming into the ring with Steve Blackman (a shoot fighter himself who is more than capable of reciprocating), Droz (a former NFL offensive lineman who's significantly bigger than Severn), and Edge (who is not exactly a small man). I don't care how legit you are, you aren't winning that 3 on 1. And certainly not if Vince sends out more people from the back. Being a successful UFC fighter doesn't make you Batman. Droz is much bigger than Severn? It's been awhile since I saw the match, but according to most sources, Severn is 6'2 and Droz was 6'3 to 6'4. Not much of a difference.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 9, 2022 13:17:13 GMT -5
It would've been a really stupid move on his part. With so many guys in the ring once he started trying to shoot on someone the other guys would've caught on and surrounded him and it would've got ugly pretty quick for Danny boy. Especially if you look at some of the guys that were in the ring when he was out there. Blackman was a known tough guy with a shoot fighting background too and could've held his own against him. Then even someone like Mabel/Viscera who while obviously wasn't as skilled as someone like Severn was still a giant man who I'm sure wouldn't be easy to handle in a shoot fighting situation. Yeah I know Severn was a very good combat sports fighter, but he wouldn't be shooting on bums from the bar. He would be shooting on incredibly tough men, many of who are much bigger than him and he'd be fighting more than one. Also they wouldn't take too kindly to someone trying to make them look like fools in front of thousands of people. I don't think he would get very far and he might get his ass kicked himself. Plus, you're coming into the ring with Steve Blackman (a shoot fighter himself who is more than capable of reciprocating), Droz (a former NFL offensive lineman who's significantly bigger than Severn), and Edge (who is not exactly a small man). I don't care how legit you are, you aren't winning that 3 on 1. And certainly not if Vince sends out more people from the back. Being a successful UFC fighter doesn't make you Batman. Droz is much bigger than Severn? It's been awhile since I saw the match, but according to most sources, Severn is 6'2 and Droz was 6'3 to 6'4. Not much of a difference. I wonder what Droz's playing weight in NFL was? He was a good sized guy for sure but he must have lost a lot of weight because his wrestling build looked nothing like that of an NFL offensive lineman a position where you have to be at least 300 pounds. While wrestling in the WWF Droz looked 250-260 at the most.
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Aug 9, 2022 13:36:51 GMT -5
lol As soon as they realize he's shooting, all it takes is a 2-on-1 advantage.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Aug 9, 2022 13:37:53 GMT -5
It would've been a really stupid move on his part. With so many guys in the ring once he started trying to shoot on someone the other guys would've caught on and surrounded him and it would've got ugly pretty quick for Danny boy. Especially if you look at some of the guys that were in the ring when he was out there. Blackman was a known tough guy with a shoot fighting background too and could've held his own against him. Then even someone like Mabel/Viscera who while obviously wasn't as skilled as someone like Severn was still a giant man who I'm sure wouldn't be easy to handle in a shoot fighting situation. Droz is much bigger than Severn? It's been awhile since I saw the match, but according to most sources, Severn is 6'2 and Droz was 6'3 to 6'4. Not much of a difference. I wonder what Droz's playing weight in NFL was? He was a good sized guy for sure but he must have lost a lot of weight because his wrestling build looked nothing like that of an NFL offensive lineman a position where you have to be at least 300 pounds. While wrestling in the WWF Droz looked 250-260 at the most. Yeah I thought Droz was like 275 in WWF so maybe I’m over estimating his size. But still, a former NFL lineman who is in shape and at the very minimum is the same size as Severn is probably not a guy you want to shoot on either. Football lineman train to get hands off them and then move the opponent where they want to move them against their opponent’s will. He wouldn’t be a pushover either. I’m sure shooting in the Rumble was something Severn thought about doing in his most frustrated moments, but quickly thought better of it.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 9, 2022 13:56:03 GMT -5
It would've been a really stupid move on his part. With so many guys in the ring once he started trying to shoot on someone the other guys would've caught on and surrounded him and it would've got ugly pretty quick for Danny boy. Especially if you look at some of the guys that were in the ring when he was out there. Blackman was a known tough guy with a shoot fighting background too and could've held his own against him. Then even someone like Mabel/Viscera who while obviously wasn't as skilled as someone like Severn was still a giant man who I'm sure wouldn't be easy to handle in a shoot fighting situation. I wonder what Droz's playing weight in NFL was? He was a good sized guy for sure but he must have lost a lot of weight because his wrestling build looked nothing like that of an NFL offensive lineman a position where you have to be at least 300 pounds. While wrestling in the WWF Droz looked 250-260 at the most. Yeah I thought Droz was like 275 in WWF so maybe I’m over estimating his size. But still, a former NFL lineman who is in shape and at the very minimum is the same size as Severn is probably not a guy you want to shoot on either. Football lineman train to get hands off them and then move the opponent where they want to move them against their opponent’s will. He wouldn’t be a pushover either. I’m sure shooting in the Rumble was something Severn thought about doing in his most frustrated moments, but quickly thought better of it. That's basically it. While Severn would be able to probably get the better of pretty much everyone in the match one on one a lot of the other guys weren't exactly push overs either and would be able to hold their own until help arrived. What I don't get is what does he think was going to accomplish on shooting on guys in a Royal Rumble? It's not like going into business for yourself in a regular match where he could shoot pin someone or make them tap out. There's no way he was going to shoot toss any one over the top rope.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Aug 9, 2022 14:27:38 GMT -5
Yeah I thought Droz was like 275 in WWF so maybe I’m over estimating his size. But still, a former NFL lineman who is in shape and at the very minimum is the same size as Severn is probably not a guy you want to shoot on either. Football lineman train to get hands off them and then move the opponent where they want to move them against their opponent’s will. He wouldn’t be a pushover either. I’m sure shooting in the Rumble was something Severn thought about doing in his most frustrated moments, but quickly thought better of it. That's basically it. While Severn would be able to probably get the better of pretty much everyone in the match one on one a lot of the other guys weren't exactly push overs either and would be able to hold their own until help arrived. What I don't get is what does he think was going to accomplish on shooting on guys in a Royal Rumble? It's not like going into business for yourself in a regular match where he could shoot pin someone or make them tap out. There's no way he was going to shoot toss any one over the top rope. And that wasn't exactly a star-studded Rumble from a kayfabe standpoint. Even if it worked out for a little while no fan was going to be like "Wow Dan Severn beat up Droz, Steve Blackman, and Edge all at once! He should fight Stone Cold!!". Shooting does nothing. To people not in the know, it just looks like sloppy wrestling and to those in the know it looks unprofessional. Beating up a guy who doesn't know he's in a real fight does not make you look tough. And for your average fan, it probably wouldn't have registered. I was in middle school during the Attitude Era and knew wrestling was fixed, but I didn't know the Brawl For All was a shoot until years later. I just thought they were poorly worked boxing matches that were clogging up valuable wrestling time.
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Aug 9, 2022 14:56:38 GMT -5
Blackman would have murdered him.
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tirtefaa
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Post by tirtefaa on Aug 9, 2022 15:17:56 GMT -5
Dan is a complete moron if he believes that he could have done anything as far as shoot win the Rumble. As many have pointed out, there's about 1,000 different ways that the company would get itself out of this situation. I don't believe for one second that Dan actually thought about doing this, because it makes him look like an absolute imbecile.
Dan might be upset about his booking in the company, but he might have a large part to do with that. Dan came into the company during one of the hottest eras of wrestling, a time when almost every single act was over, yet here's this sweaty guy with the most 90's dad bod you'll ever see, along with Cornette who managed some of the biggest DOA superstars during the Attitude Era. Severn got crickets, while someone of similar toughness like Steve Blackman got massively over.
Severn should have been happy with the paycheck he was getting, because at that stage in the game, he wasn't deserving of much else.
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Post by sungod2020 on Aug 9, 2022 15:27:45 GMT -5
Dan is a complete moron if he believes that he could have done anything as far as shoot win the Rumble. As many have pointed out, there's about 1,000 different ways that the company would get itself out of this situation. I don't believe for one second that Dan actually thought about doing this, because it makes him look like an absolute imbecile. Dan might be upset about his booking in the company, but he might have a large part to do with that. Dan came into the company during one of the hottest eras of wrestling, a time when almost every single act was over, yet here's this sweaty guy with the most 90's dad bod you'll ever see, along with Cornette who managed some of the biggest DOA superstars during the Attitude Era. Severn got crickets, while someone of similar toughness like Steve Blackman got massively over.
Severn should have been happy with the paycheck he was getting, because at that stage in the game, he wasn't deserving of much else. Massively over, especially during that time was a stretch. Blackman wasn't fully over until he entered the hardcore division.
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Post by XIII on Aug 9, 2022 15:32:33 GMT -5
I’ve never heard this story. I’m sure that Severn wasn’t serious because there’s no way it would have worked. lol
A good Severn story is that during the time when the Ministry was recruiting scrubs Russo wanted him to join and become the Beast with 666 written on his forehead but Dan wouldn’t do it, so eventually one of the backstage guys was like “fine we’ll just job you out then!” and Severn says “who do you have that’s going to make sure I lose?” so they took him off of tv and just used him on house shows until his contract was up.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 9, 2022 16:23:06 GMT -5
Dan is a complete moron if he believes that he could have done anything as far as shoot win the Rumble. As many have pointed out, there's about 1,000 different ways that the company would get itself out of this situation. I don't believe for one second that Dan actually thought about doing this, because it makes him look like an absolute imbecile. Dan might be upset about his booking in the company, but he might have a large part to do with that. Dan came into the company during one of the hottest eras of wrestling, a time when almost every single act was over, yet here's this sweaty guy with the most 90's dad bod you'll ever see, along with Cornette who managed some of the biggest DOA superstars during the Attitude Era. Severn got crickets, while someone of similar toughness like Steve Blackman got massively over.
Severn should have been happy with the paycheck he was getting, because at that stage in the game, he wasn't deserving of much else. Massively over, especially during that time was a stretch. Blackman wasn't fully over until he entered the hardcore division. Blackman was probably the least over guy on the roster until he finally found his niche in the hardcore division. And even then while he got over saying he was massively over is an overstatement.
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tirtefaa
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Post by tirtefaa on Aug 9, 2022 16:30:12 GMT -5
Massively over, especially during that time was a stretch. Blackman wasn't fully over until he entered the hardcore division. Yeah, that's an overstatement, but in comparison to Severn, I think the point still stands.
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cjh
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Post by cjh on Aug 9, 2022 16:41:43 GMT -5
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