|
Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Aug 13, 2022 4:20:54 GMT -5
It’s the difference of not just bringing anyone/everyone in and also how you use the talent that you do bring in.
Give a battle royal a bit of one off name talent like Tommy Dreamer or Glacier is fine. Bring CM Punk in is excellent business. Trying to make Black Reign a thing or putting the likes of Booker T or Val Venus over established homegrown talent not a good idea.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 13, 2022 6:46:13 GMT -5
Admittedly, I'm a biased fan, but Tony Khan gets the pick of the litter in terms of what the WWE willingly lets go of or otherwise, and then does his best to maximize their potential. Compare Ambrose to Moxley, or burnt out Punk vs happy old man Punk. Even when ex-WWE guys go over AEW "homegrown" talent, it's almost never a squash, and the ex-WWE guys put them over both in ring and promos. It's hard to argue that Darby didn't get one hell of a rub by getting the nod from both Mox and Punk. I think the other thing to is that AEW uses WWE guys to get a lot of their talent over. Christian has really helped the Jurassic Express develop, pairing up Swerve and Keith Lee against Starks and Hobbs took those two to a new level. Mox,Claudio, Danielson are helping Wheeler Yuta. Jericho helping guys like Sammy Guevara and Daniel Garcia. TNA was bringing in so many guys who were visibly in horrible shape and clearly only wanting a paycheck and having them make their talent look bad. Then when those WWE guys left, the TNA talent would be left with nothing to do. I also think with how much the wrestling landscape has changed since then so many see people leaving WWE and going to AEW and Impact as their chance to really shine because so much of the talent now are super talented guys and girls that just didn't get a chance. Back then it was a lot of older wrestlers from the Attitude Era living off a gimmick.
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,551
Member is Online
|
Post by Bo Rida on Aug 13, 2022 7:59:00 GMT -5
AJ Styles won everything in TNA. Twice. Then after the influx of WWE people Ric Flair says he'll be a big star one day. What more could he do?! And AJ was their top guy, those beneath him on the card are even worse by comparison.
There's also the whole VKM debacle.
|
|
|
Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Aug 13, 2022 8:05:59 GMT -5
Well my perspective is this. AEW seemed to have bloomed into existence from anti-WWE sentiment. So when they seemingly focused on pushing ex WWE talent that were stars over homegrown or "misused" talent, it seems hypocritical to the naked eye. With TNA, it was mostly older guys half-assing for easy Dixie money to take a break from the WWE grind until they got tired of it and came back to WWE. I think there's fair room to say that it benefited from disillusionment with WWE and a desire for an alternative product, but "bloomed into existence from anti-WWE sentiment"? Nah, that's a lot too far. Tony's a life-long wrestling fan who only days ago talked up how much WWE's product is improving. The guys he built the company with were at least in early talks with WWE as an option for where to land. AEW isn't founded on some "f*** WWE" ideal, and even if there was, taking people who by and large got fired from WWE and going "I can do better with them" would be in line with that ethos. People gotta work. presentation also goes a lot into it. you don't see Keith Lee and Swerve cutting promos about how WWE misused them or Malakai Black saying he came to AEW so he could put WWE out of business or whatever punching-above-its-weight-class BS TNA loved to do so much.
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 13, 2022 14:22:20 GMT -5
I think there's fair room to say that it benefited from disillusionment with WWE and a desire for an alternative product, but "bloomed into existence from anti-WWE sentiment"? Nah, that's a lot too far. Tony's a life-long wrestling fan who only days ago talked up how much WWE's product is improving. The guys he built the company with were at least in early talks with WWE as an option for where to land. AEW isn't founded on some "f*** WWE" ideal, and even if there was, taking people who by and large got fired from WWE and going "I can do better with them" would be in line with that ethos. People gotta work. presentation also goes a lot into it. you don't see Keith Lee and Swerve cutting promos about how WWE misused them or Malakai Black saying he came to AEW so he could put WWE out of business or whatever punching-above-its-weight-class BS TNA loved to do so much. Yeah, it'd be disingenuous to also overlook the number of promos about "up north" that people cut for years. Stuff like Booker T and the Nasty Boys? That's only up through the Hogan/Bischoff era. As late as Aron Rex in 2016, ex-WWE guys still cut those awful promos. If you were leaving WWE and signing with TNA you were guaranteed to run that hack shit the first time you got a mic in your hand and it did a lot to sour any potential hype for anyone moving over. I feel like anyone who sees the two as comparable just straight-up didn't watch TNA.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Aug 13, 2022 14:29:34 GMT -5
presentation also goes a lot into it. you don't see Keith Lee and Swerve cutting promos about how WWE misused them or Malakai Black saying he came to AEW so he could put WWE out of business or whatever punching-above-its-weight-class BS TNA loved to do so much. Yeah, it'd be disingenuous to also overlook the number of promos about "up north" that people cut for years. Stuff like Booker T and the Nasty Boys? That's only up through the Hogan/Bischoff era. As late as Aron Rex in 2016, ex-WWE guys still cut those awful promos. If you were leaving WWE and signing with TNA you were guaranteed to run that hack shit the first time you got a mic in your hand and it did a lot to sour any potential hype for anyone moving over. I feel like anyone who sees the two as comparable just straight-up didn't watch TNA. And then you had BG and Kip James who made years' long gimmicks out of it like "invading catering" and the Voodoo Kin Mafia wanting to fight "Levesque and Hickenbottom." That was so f***ing bad.
|
|
|
Post by evilone on Aug 13, 2022 16:28:27 GMT -5
Admittedly, I'm a biased fan, but Tony Khan gets the pick of the litter in terms of what the WWE willingly lets go of or otherwise, and then does his best to maximize their potential. Compare Ambrose to Moxley, or burnt out Punk vs happy old man Punk. Even when ex-WWE guys go over AEW "homegrown" talent, it's almost never a squash, and the ex-WWE guys put them over both in ring and promos. It's hard to argue that Darby didn't get one hell of a rub by getting the nod from both Mox and Punk. I think the other thing to is that AEW uses WWE guys to get a lot of their talent over. Christian has really helped the Jurassic Express develop, pairing up Swerve and Keith Lee against Starks and Hobbs took those two to a new level. Mox,Claudio, Danielson are helping Wheeler Yuta. Jericho helping guys like Sammy Guevara and Daniel Garcia. TNA was bringing in so many guys who were visibly in horrible shape and clearly only wanting a paycheck and having them make their talent look bad. Then when those WWE guys left, the TNA talent would be left with nothing to do. I also think with how much the wrestling landscape has changed since then so many see people leaving WWE and going to AEW and Impact as their chance to really shine because so much of the talent now are super talented guys and girls that just didn't get a chance. Back then it was a lot of older wrestlers from the Attitude Era living off a gimmick. Mox helped Yuta the same way Angle helped Joe. And as far as the WWE guys being out of shape when they came to TNA I have to declare it as false narative. TNA had prime Christian, prime Jeff Hardy, prime Bully Ray, prime Mr. Anderson, EC3, Matt Morgan, Booker T, Booby Lashely, Drew McIntyre, Brian Kendrick. These were not out of shape by any means while they were in TNA. Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Curt Hennig were more of a novelty factor.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,754
|
Post by chrom on Aug 13, 2022 16:40:18 GMT -5
presentation also goes a lot into it. you don't see Keith Lee and Swerve cutting promos about how WWE misused them or Malakai Black saying he came to AEW so he could put WWE out of business or whatever punching-above-its-weight-class BS TNA loved to do so much. Yeah, it'd be disingenuous to also overlook the number of promos about "up north" that people cut for years. Stuff like Booker T and the Nasty Boys? That's only up through the Hogan/Bischoff era. As late as Aron Rex in 2016, ex-WWE guys still cut those awful promos. If you were leaving WWE and signing with TNA you were guaranteed to run that hack shit the first time you got a mic in your hand and it did a lot to sour any potential hype for anyone moving over. I feel like anyone who sees the two as comparable just straight-up didn't watch TNA. Aron killed his career the moment he opened his mouth there.
|
|
El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,727
|
Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Aug 13, 2022 21:46:07 GMT -5
Team 3D, Christan, Angle, and I will go out and say Jacqueline too were good pick ups by TNA. But those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head that really didn't suck and added to the roster rather than detract I would add Rhino to this list. Edit: and holy carp who could forget Gail Kim.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 13, 2022 23:08:08 GMT -5
Team 3D, Christan, Angle, and I will go out and say Jacqueline too were good pick ups by TNA. But those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head that really didn't suck and added to the roster rather than detract I would add Rhino to this list. Edit: and holy carp who could forget Gail Kim. Eh... first run Gail maybe... SECOND Run Gail... absolutely f***ing not.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 13, 2022 23:18:56 GMT -5
I would add Rhino to this list. Edit: and holy carp who could forget Gail Kim. Eh... first run Gail maybe... SECOND Run Gail... absolutely f***ing not. Her 2nd run made WCW Hulk Hogan blush
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Aug 13, 2022 23:36:08 GMT -5
Kim's first TNA run was excellent. Unfortunately, it also really got to her head and her second run was horrendous in terms of how much backstage pull she used to get her way.
At least she's calmed down now since she retired and does a pretty good job as part of Impact's management team.
|
|
|
Post by Lizuka #BLM on Aug 14, 2022 1:04:19 GMT -5
In terms of someone ex-WWE TNA picked up and pushed as a big deal right away that I do completely understand was Mr. Anderson. It didn't ultimately really work out well, mix of TNA doing shitty stuff with him and turning him constantly which destroyed his momentum and him just not rising to the level as a talent most of the time, but I totally get why they did it in his case because he'd had a lot of unrealized potential in WWE and was cut pretty abruptly.
|
|
Rave
El Dandy
Perpetually Bored
Posts: 8,117
|
Post by Rave on Aug 14, 2022 16:02:56 GMT -5
Eh... first run Gail maybe... SECOND Run Gail... absolutely f***ing not. Her 2nd run made WCW Hulk Hogan blush I'm still firmly convinced Gail was massively overpushed because someone in TNA thought of courting Robert Irvine as an investor, because that's the only way it makes sense to me.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 14, 2022 16:11:19 GMT -5
Her 2nd run made WCW Hulk Hogan blush I'm still firmly convinced Gail was massively overpushed because someone in TNA thought of courting Robert Irvine as an investor, because that's the only way it makes sense to me. That and Dixie did not want her to leave and if you're Gail why would you love being a medium fish in a very small pond. It was an all around perfect circumstance for her and not so much else for other women She knew how to play the game and make it work for her. I remember when Rosemary was catching fire and was basically becoming the most popular woman on the roster, Gail was champion and I think defended the title and then had to leave with a back injury. She came back to either get sympathy or heat for Rosemary where she took a mist spot and no one really cared
|
|
|
Post by ISO Mid Thigh Pull on Aug 14, 2022 16:38:18 GMT -5
Weekly PPV era TNA where every guy who came in cut a promo about some shit from 5-10 years ago and how their personal life was a mess was incredible traumatic television.
|
|
|
Post by Feyrhausen on Aug 14, 2022 16:39:27 GMT -5
Her 2nd run made WCW Hulk Hogan blush I'm still firmly convinced Gail was massively overpushed because someone in TNA thought of courting Robert Irvine as an investor, because that's the only way it makes sense to me. Certainly possible. But Dixie was such a reality show stan that she may have pushed Gail so hard just because of her association with a big reality star.
|
|
|
Post by wrestlingrecap on Aug 14, 2022 16:41:38 GMT -5
For me, the issue is that most times WWE guys would come in and quickly go over TNA established names. For instance, it really bugged me that Kurt Angle beat Samoa Joe within his first month being in TNA. I get the argument that Angle is an established name, but having him come in and beat Joe kind of discredits Joe and TNA. If they do the meeting first, Joe winning makes him look like a much bigger name. Does it hurt Angle? Perhaps, but it's Kurt Angle. He's talented to come back from a loss, which I think is part of good booking. Elevate guys and making it so guys don't lose too much.
Team 3D is an example of not really going over teams. They gave a lot of AMW in 2005 and they didn't even win the tag titles until 2007. They helped LAX, too.
At the time of the signings I was in high school and I didn't take the signings as being too much until 2010. When I watched the 1/4/10 Impact live I couldn't keep track of all the guys debuting within the first hour. Most of the time, it felt like they would splice in guys every few months, but it was never overboard like that.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 14, 2022 16:50:28 GMT -5
Weekly PPV era TNA where every guy who came in cut a promo about some shit from 5-10 years ago and how their personal life was a mess was incredible traumatic television. TNA Wrestler: Them people in NEW YORK cut me cause they didn't like that I do drugs. So what my home life was a wreck, I still made live shows...sometimes.
|
|
|
Post by ISO Mid Thigh Pull on Aug 14, 2022 16:53:53 GMT -5
Weekly PPV era TNA where every guy who came in cut a promo about some shit from 5-10 years ago and how their personal life was a mess was incredible traumatic television. TNA Wrestler: Them people in NEW YORK cut me cause they didn't like that I do drugs. So what my home life was a wreck, I still made live shows...sometimes. X-Pac's first promo was almost Exactly like this. Dude literally said he'd be here until he f***ed up and got fired. I think he no-showed on them WEEKS later too.
|
|