Who was responsible for WWF 1997?

[tafkaga]

Was there a transition in creative in late '96, and do we know specifically who had the book in '97? 

I forgot how much I was really into the WWF at this time.  When January '97 hit it's like they finally started to 'get it' in the WWF and imo this is where Raw actually surpassed Nitro, in terms of being can't-miss Monday night television.  Raw suddenly had an energy where it felt like anything could happen, and the whole atmosphere was like a powder keg ready to explode.  Face/heel lines were blurring and the characters were all developing an edge without diving head first into high school boys locker room comedy territory like they started to do a little later on.

[Jindrak Mark]

I think a certain guy who says bro a lot became head writer in 1997, not sure what month though.

Overall I think it was a combination of Vince/Russo/Patterson/Prichard/Cornette around that time. I know Cornette had a big hand in the early days of Kane and his first feud with Undertaker.

[tafkaga]

What's hilarious though is February 3, 1997 "ROYAL RUMBLE RAW". Vince had promised that the actual Royal Rumble match was going to air on Raw, free television for the first time since 1989 (although it was actually 1988). Then, he crows for 2 hours about how the WWF doesn't play the bait and switch game, shooting daggers at WCW for their Hogan vs. Giant during the commercial breaks of The New Adventures of Robinhood stunt, and then after all of that... THEY DON'T SHOW THE ROYAL RUMBLE MATCH. wtf Vince

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

Wasn't Jake Roberts involved in the creative back then or am I just misremembering that? He was in 1997 Royal Rumble so he was still around. Not surprisingly he fell off the wagon again and not long after and was gone.

[nickcave]

I think it was just a really tight creative team, Russo started really driving the wheel by 98 though

[Jindrak Mark]

I think a few people have said over the years that the overseas Raw around February/March 1997 with the great Owen/Bulldog European title match is said to have been a breaking point for Vince. I think the crowd was dead and the show got a terrible rating and he decided things had to change. The likes of Russo/HBK/HHH had already been in his ear asking him to take more risks and he finally agreed.

A week or two after the Germany show Raw was renamed Raw is War, it got a new look with pyro and the massive titantron that would be a fixture for decades and they started doing live Raws way more often to combat spoilers hurting their ratings. A few weeks later you had the famous Wrestlemania go-home show with Bret's this is bullshit promo. Although the Pillman's got a gun thing was a few months earlier so they had already been experimenting with edgier content.

[fg]

Aug 18, 2022 13:49:18 GMT -5 tafkaga said:

What's hilarious though is February 3, 1997 "ROYAL RUMBLE RAW". Vince had promised that the actual Royal Rumble match was going to air on Raw, free television for the first time since 1989 (although it was actually 1988). Then, he crows for 2 hours about how the WWF doesn't play the bait and switch game, shooting daggers at WCW for their Hogan vs. Giant during the commercial breaks of The New Adventures of Robinhood stunt, and then after all of that... THEY DON'T SHOW THE ROYAL RUMBLE MATCH. wtf Vince

They got in major hot water with cabke companies after they made that announcement. They figured it would kill buy rates and cost them an opportunity to earn $$$$$. With that with no on air explanation, they ended up not showing it. The decision was made a few days before because they turned a house show at the now Rogers Centre into a Raw taping and because of the poor attendance because people didn’t know it was a Raw taping, most of the house lights were turned off. However Vince being Vince said that they set an attendance record. Well two years later, WWE announces a Raw at the Rogers Centre well in advance and they said that the all time attendance record was set with WM6.

[tafkaga]

Aug 18, 2022 14:14:45 GMT -5 fg said:

Aug 18, 2022 13:49:18 GMT -5 tafkaga said:

What's hilarious though is February 3, 1997 "ROYAL RUMBLE RAW". Vince had promised that the actual Royal Rumble match was going to air on Raw, free television for the first time since 1989 (although it was actually 1988). Then, he crows for 2 hours about how the WWF doesn't play the bait and switch game, shooting daggers at WCW for their Hogan vs. Giant during the commercial breaks of The New Adventures of Robinhood stunt, and then after all of that... THEY DON'T SHOW THE ROYAL RUMBLE MATCH. wtf Vince

They got in major hot water with cabke companies after they made that announcement. They figured it would kill buy rates and cost them an opportunity to earn $$$$$. With that with no on air explanation, they ended up not showing it. The decision was made a few days before because they turned a house show at the now Rogers Centre into a Raw taping and because of the poor attendance because people didn’t know it was a Raw taping, most of the house lights were turned off. However Vince being Vince said that they set an attendance record. Well two years later, WWE announces a Raw at the Rogers Centre well in advance and they said that the all time attendance record was set with WM6.

That's hilarious.  I wondered about the attendance, given how dark it was, and if they weren't just BS'ing because Nitro filled up the Superdome a few weeks prior. 

Also, basically the "NO BAIT AND SWITCH HERE FOLKS" was totally gaslighting the audience.

[koreycaskets]

Aug 18, 2022 14:14:45 GMT -5 fg said:

Aug 18, 2022 13:49:18 GMT -5 tafkaga said:

What's hilarious though is February 3, 1997 "ROYAL RUMBLE RAW". Vince had promised that the actual Royal Rumble match was going to air on Raw, free television for the first time since 1989 (although it was actually 1988). Then, he crows for 2 hours about how the WWF doesn't play the bait and switch game, shooting daggers at WCW for their Hogan vs. Giant during the commercial breaks of The New Adventures of Robinhood stunt, and then after all of that... THEY DON'T SHOW THE ROYAL RUMBLE MATCH. wtf Vince

They got in major hot water with cabke companies after they made that announcement. They figured it would kill buy rates and cost them an opportunity to earn $$$$$. With that with no on air explanation, they ended up not showing it. The decision was made a few days before because they turned a house show at the now Rogers Centre into a Raw taping and because of the poor attendance because people didn’t know it was a Raw taping, most of the house lights were turned off. However Vince being Vince said that they set an attendance record. Well two years later, WWE announces a Raw at the Rogers Centre well in advance and they said that the all time attendance record was set with WM6.

I was at that Skydome show I can confirm no one in the crowd knew it was a RAW.

I believe RAW with the Titantron and Ramp started shortly after this.

[Deleted]

Undertaker and Bret deserve credit for asking for new opponents, it meant Foley and Austin got promoted to the main event skipping the mid-card. I think the original plan would have been for both to spend a year or two at IC level.

Their absence from the mid-card also allowed HHH to shine in a scene that had an unmotivated Goldust & Mero and a green Rock as his rivals.

[Citizen Snips Has Left]

Aug 18, 2022 14:06:58 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

I think a few people have said over the years that the overseas Raw around February/March 1997 with the great Owen/Bulldog European title match is said to have been a breaking point for Vince. I think the crowd was dead and the show got a terrible rating and he decided things had to change. The likes of Russo/HBK/HHH had already been in his ear asking him to take more risks and he finally agreed.

A week or two after the Germany show Raw was renamed Raw is War, it got a new look with pyro and the massive titantron that would be a fixture for decades and they started doing live Raws way more often to combat spoilers hurting their ratings. A few weeks later you had the famous Wrestlemania go-home show with Bret's this is bullshit promo. Although the Pillman's got a gun thing was a few months earlier so they had already been experimenting with edgier content.

The ECW Raw from the Manhattan Center was the very week after that Germany show.

[cjh]

Vince Russo and Jim Cornette were the creative team for most of 1997.  Ed Ferrara was hired in June 1998.

The awful show that changed everything was the April 14 Raw where half of the program was from the U.S. while the other half was from Kuwait.  It led to Russo getting the head writer job.

EDIT: South Africa, not Kuwait.

[Deleted]

Aug 18, 2022 19:13:30 GMT -5 cjh said:

Vince Russo and Jim Cornette were the creative team for most of 1997.  Ed Ferrara was hired in June 1998.

The awful show that changed everything was the April 14 Raw where half of the program was from the U.S. while the other half was from Kuwait.  It led to Russo getting the head writer job.

Cornette said himself that he didn’t last long in 97 working with Russo. He got annoyed Vince went with Russo’s ideas instead of his & when Cornette just wanted to write the shows the 2 Vince’s were fantasying about having sex with Sable & her cotton panties.

[cjh]

Aug 18, 2022 19:39:53 GMT -5 @mrbonezone said:

Aug 18, 2022 19:13:30 GMT -5 cjh said:

Vince Russo and Jim Cornette were the creative team for most of 1997.  Ed Ferrara was hired in June 1998.

The awful show that changed everything was the April 14 Raw where half of the program was from the U.S. while the other half was from Kuwait.  It led to Russo getting the head writer job.

Cornette said himself that he didn’t last long in 97 working with Russo. He got annoyed Vince went with Russo’s ideas instead of his & when Cornette just wanted to write the shows the 2 Vince were fantasying about having sex with Sable & her cotton panties.

Bruce Prichard, according to Cornette, was mostly working in the office at the time rather than helping write shows, and, again, Ferrara wasn't in the picture until June 1998.  Who else would have been involved?  It seems unlikely there wouldn't have been at least two full-time writers at all times (at least until Russo and Ferrara quit and they had no writers for a few weeks).

[Deleted]

Aug 18, 2022 19:47:42 GMT -5 cjh said:

Aug 18, 2022 19:39:53 GMT -5 @mrbonezone said:

Cornette said himself that he didn’t last long in 97 working with Russo. He got annoyed Vince went with Russo’s ideas instead of his & when Cornette just wanted to write the shows the 2 Vince were fantasying about having sex with Sable & her cotton panties.

Bruce Prichard, according to Cornette, was mostly working in the office at the time rather than helping write shows, and, again, Ferrara wasn't in the picture until June 1998.  Who else would have been involved?  It seems unlikely there wouldn't have been at least two full-time writers at all times (at least until Russo and Ferrara quit and they had no writers for a few weeks).

Cornette said that once the booking committee got broken up with Russo becoming head writer it was pretty much just the 2 Vince’s at Mcmahon’s house writing tv in 97 after Jim only lasted a couple months. Cornette said he would throw out ideas during production meetings at TV but they rarely got used. By the fall of 97 it was just Russo writing the TV & presenting it to Mcmahon who would tweak a few things. That’s why Russo was so glad Ferrara came on board because he had been a one man show for awhile there.

What Russo was doing was working & from Mcmahon’s perspective paying one guy to write tv is alot cheaper than having multiple writers or a committee.

[cjh]

Aug 18, 2022 21:28:07 GMT -5 @mrbonezone said:

Aug 18, 2022 19:47:42 GMT -5 cjh said:

Bruce Prichard, according to Cornette, was mostly working in the office at the time rather than helping write shows, and, again, Ferrara wasn't in the picture until June 1998.  Who else would have been involved?  It seems unlikely there wouldn't have been at least two full-time writers at all times (at least until Russo and Ferrara quit and they had no writers for a few weeks).

Cornette said that once the booking committee got broken up with Russo becoming head writer it was pretty much just the 2 Vince’s at Mcmahon’s house writing tv in 97 after Jim only lasted a couple months. Cornette said he would throw out ideas during production meetings at TV but they rarely got used. By the fall of 97 it was just Russo writing the TV & presenting it to Mcmahon who would tweak a few things. That’s why Russo was so glad Ferrara came on board because he had been a one man show for awhile there.

What Russo was doing was working & from Mcmahon’s perspective paying one guy to write tv is alot cheaper than having multiple writers or a committee.

As far as I know, it was Bruce Prichard and Pat Patterson writing the shows for many years, then Patterson briefly retired towards the end of 1995, leading to Cornette and Russo joining the team.  Prichard stopped working in creative at some point, leaving Cornette and Russo.

[Milkman Norm]

Aug 18, 2022 14:06:58 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

I think a few people have said over the years that the overseas Raw around February/March 1997 with the great Owen/Bulldog European title match is said to have been a breaking point for Vince. I think the crowd was dead and the show got a terrible rating and he decided things had to change. The likes of Russo/HBK/HHH had already been in his ear asking him to take more risks and he finally agreed.

A week or two after the Germany show Raw was renamed Raw is War, it got a new look with pyro and the massive titantron that would be a fixture for decades and they started doing live Raws way more often to combat spoilers hurting their ratings. A few weeks later you had the famous Wrestlemania go-home show with Bret's this is bullshit promo. Although the Pillman's got a gun thing was a few months earlier so they had already been experimenting with edgier content.

The ratings low came a few months later with the partially taped in South Africa Raw. That was the episode that did such a horrible number that by multiple accounts McMahon decided to make Russo head of creative to shake things up.

[Manute Bol]

Aug 18, 2022 21:28:07 GMT -5 @mrbonezone said:

Aug 18, 2022 19:47:42 GMT -5 cjh said:

Bruce Prichard, according to Cornette, was mostly working in the office at the time rather than helping write shows, and, again, Ferrara wasn't in the picture until June 1998.  Who else would have been involved?  It seems unlikely there wouldn't have been at least two full-time writers at all times (at least until Russo and Ferrara quit and they had no writers for a few weeks).

Cornette said that once the booking committee got broken up with Russo becoming head writer it was pretty much just the 2 Vince’s at Mcmahon’s house writing tv in 97 after Jim only lasted a couple months. Cornette said he would throw out ideas during production meetings at TV but they rarely got used. By the fall of 97 it was just Russo writing the TV & presenting it to Mcmahon who would tweak a few things. That’s why Russo was so glad Ferrara came on board because he had been a one man show for awhile there.

What Russo was doing was working & from Mcmahon’s perspective paying one guy to write tv is alot cheaper than having multiple writers or a committee.

This isn’t 100% accurate. Cornette actually just talked about this in detail on a recent pod and has been reading old memos from Russo of truly awful ideas. It was Cornette, Vince, Prichard, and Russo in 97. Patterson would show up when he felt like it and contribute, JR was occasionally asked for his input, and Shane was free to offer ideas (although they were rarely used).

[salz4life]

I started rewatching '96 awhile ago.... I'm at the night after Mind Games and the Austin/Hart stuff is picking up. It really feels like things are starting (key word) to change right now. Pillman is starting up on the mic going crazy. Owen and Bulldog won the tag straps. We didn't know it at the time, but the Hart Foundation was starting to pick up (I know we are about 6 months away from the reformation... but the seeds are being laid). The beginning of '96 was a tad rough... but the end of '96 is showing a turnaround (even if the ratings weren't necessarily saying it).

[tafkaga]

Aug 22, 2022 9:58:27 GMT -5 salz4life said:

I started rewatching '96 awhile ago.... I'm at the night after Mind Games and the Austin/Hart stuff is picking up. It really feels like things are starting (key word) to change right now. Pillman is starting up on the mic going crazy. Owen and Bulldog won the tag straps. We didn't know it at the time, but the Hart Foundation was starting to pick up (I know we are about 6 months away from the reformation... but the seeds are being laid). The beginning of '96 was a tad rough... but the end of '96 is showing a turnaround (even if the ratings weren't necessarily saying it).

Yes, Mind Games is definitely where I felt the new atmosphere starting to set in. 

Getting rid of the babyface/heel constraints and turning it into every man/faction for him/itself was so much more interesting, and it felt like Vince's ad nauseam claim "anything can happen in the WWF" was actually becoming reality.