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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 11, 2022 10:35:24 GMT -5
As a dramatic departure from what *wrestling* was to something newer and more adult? If anything the cartoony, mostly bloodless, child friendly WWF of 1985-~1996 was the outlier. Let somehow WWE was able to convince fans that they always had been the promotion for adults and WCW was the one for kids, when in fact for years the opposite was true.
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pinja
Unicron
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Post by pinja on Sept 11, 2022 10:57:15 GMT -5
Because the Attitude Era was the only time when the product "grew up" parallel to it's main audience? Like, I was born in '87 and by the time the Attitude Era kicked in, I was on the verge of becoming a teenager. So naturally my lust for more edgy content increased. I wasn't familiar with any wrestling prior to late era Hulkamania, I didn't know that it was the outlier within wrestling's rich history. By twisting the narrative now, telling me that the Attitude Era changed wrestling exactly the way I perceived it as a child, WWE tries to secure it's mythical aura in order to - of course - further milk it. Wether they succeed or not depends on the individual. I'm all for a healthy dose of nostalgia, but if I have to listen to Bruce Prichard's and Sam Robert's awful used car salesman rethoric trying to convince me that wrestlers didn't bleed in the '80s or that presenting fake porn stars and Mark Henry fathering a hand was revolutionary tv everyone wanted to see, I feel retroactively embarrased of ever becoming a wrestling fan.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 11, 2022 10:58:31 GMT -5
It had great aspects to it, but many things that also damaged the business long term. Often too you had to filter though a lot of shit to get to the good stuff.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 11, 2022 12:01:07 GMT -5
The great parts of it were often elements that existed in wrestling for years and the other elements unique to the AE have thankfully been left in the early 2000s.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,124
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Post by tafkaga on Sept 11, 2022 12:09:40 GMT -5
It definitely seemed that way at the time, but for me "Attitude Era" wasn't synonymous with blood or more grownup storytelling. It just meant every wrestler suddenly swearing like middle schoolers when mom and dad were out of earshot, and portraying every female like an upskirt was the only thing she had to contribute to the show that was worthwhile. It was sleazy and made me feel gross because I didn't want to see the heroes of my childhood debase themselves for cheap attention.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 11, 2022 12:25:12 GMT -5
It definitely seemed that way at the time, but for me "Attitude Era" wasn't synonymous with blood or more grownup storytelling. It just meant every wrestler suddenly swearing like middle schoolers when mom and dad were out of earshot, and portraying every female like an upskirt was the only thing she had to contribute to the show that was worthwhile. It was sleazy and made me feel gross because I didn't want to see the heroes of my childhood debase themselves for cheap attention. Which is another part of the nostalgic cherry picking WWE does, where they downplay the stuff that was nothing but sleezy and offensive while at the same time playing up how "revolutionary" the acts were. |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 11, 2022 15:31:00 GMT -5
As a dramatic departure from what *wrestling* was to something newer and more adult? If anything the cartoony, mostly bloodless, child friendly WWF of 1985-~1996 was the outlier. Let somehow WWE was able to convince fans that they always had been the promotion for adults and WCW was the one for kids, when in fact for years the opposite was true. I mean, because the 18 year-old boys the WWF was marketing to are the exact same 8 year-old boys they had been marketing to a decade earlier. Soooooo many more kids watched WWF than WCW in the late 80s, there was already that brand loyalty. The way I remember it, Hogan's heel turn in WCW hit mainstream culture; people in general were going, "Whoa, did you hear Hulk Hogan's a bad guy now?" and that brought attention back to wrestling in general. And the old WWF fans were a little more inclined to prefer WWF than WCW, and the rise of Austin sucked them in. And culturally, the late 90s were about to hit an extremely obnoxious phase where everything was strippers, swearing, and skateboarding. I don't know why; Howard Stern probably had something to do with it. Anyway, the WWF's attitude era vibe just zeitgeisted better than WCW's did. |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 11, 2022 17:52:24 GMT -5
Pre New Gen wrestling was more violent but wasn't juvenile.
Attitude Era was deliberately juvenile
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
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Post by fw91 on Sept 11, 2022 19:03:43 GMT -5
It had great aspects to it, but many things that also damaged the business long term. Often too you had to filter though a lot of shit to get to the good stuff. This is weird, because I don't think you're wrong, but I still disagree in the sense that even "crap," was treated with a purpose. |
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,796
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Post by hassanchop on Sept 12, 2022 4:00:36 GMT -5
It was the 90s. Angst, alienation and anger was a thing amomg young people those days. What was revolutionary about that?
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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 12, 2022 5:00:19 GMT -5
It was very very much of its time. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up to you. A lot of it seems terrible now but it didn't at the time because wrestling was fun and was actually cool for once.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Sept 12, 2022 5:17:59 GMT -5
A lot of it didn't age well. It was good for its time. But could never work in this day and age. I had a long debate about this because a guy was hell bent and convinced to say Vince Russo was the greatest writer of all time because of the success. I kept telling him while the success is of the attitude era money wise was a monster success. That he was given him to much credit and not nearly enough to Vince who did filter him. Made a lot of false claims that he credited several talent (Stone Cold, Rock, and Taker for examples) When Taker was already a star going into it. Austin was on his way by the time Russo became a writer. That it was JR according to Bruce Pritchard that came up with the Rock. Yes Russo may pushed them more and wrote a lot of the angles. That only deserves some credit but not all of it. Yes, it made the most money out of any era but does he deserves all the credit? no.
A lot of it aged well. Some of it still watchable and good. Austin/McMahon still good. The undercard stuff not so much. The women's treatment not so much.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 12, 2022 9:43:03 GMT -5
I was talking more about how other promotions in the 80s often did things that weren't PG when WWF wouldn't and let they got over the idea that they introduced violence and blood to wrestling in 1997.
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Post by James Fabiano on Sept 12, 2022 9:50:46 GMT -5
I was talking more about how other promotions in the 80s often did things that weren't PG when WWF wouldn't and let they got over the idea that they introduced violence and blood to wrestling in 1997. Heck, WWF had moments where you could say they did the same, even in the Hulkamania/New Gen eras. We have a thread dedicated to that elsewhere. |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 12, 2022 9:52:55 GMT -5
I was talking more about how other promotions in the 80s often did things that weren't PG when WWF wouldn't and let they got over the idea that they introduced violence and blood to wrestling in 1997. Heck, WWF had moments where you could say they did the same, even in the Hulkamania/New Gen eras. We have a thread dedicated to that elsewhere. Yes but they were fewer and further between then they were in Crockett, Memphis,Mid South etc. Which isn't to say they didn't have them, but it wasn't a focus of how the company booked. |
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Post by James Fabiano on Sept 12, 2022 9:56:48 GMT -5
Heck, WWF had moments where you could say they did the same, even in the Hulkamania/New Gen eras. We have a thread dedicated to that elsewhere. Yes but they were fewer and further between then they were in Crockett, Memphis,Mid South etc. Which isn't to say they didn't have them, but it wasn't a focus of how the company booked. And a few of them were Getting Crap Past the Radar comments and jokes. 1991 was infamous for having scary moments, but they weren't "grounded in realism" or whatever the kids say these days. |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 12, 2022 10:09:07 GMT -5
Yes but they were fewer and further between then they were in Crockett, Memphis,Mid South etc. Which isn't to say they didn't have them, but it wasn't a focus of how the company booked. And a few of them were Getting Crap Past the Radar comments and jokes. 1991 was infamous for having scary moments, but they weren't "grounded in realism" or whatever the kids say these days. The numerous Terry Garvin and Pat Patterson jokes for example. But most of those were really inside whereas Jimmy Valient getting Dusty Rhodes a prostitute to cheer him up was pretty blatant. I mean they show Boogie Woogie pulling up in his car and handing money to (brain fart, can't think of her name) |
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Post by James Fabiano on Sept 12, 2022 10:34:48 GMT -5
And a few of them were Getting Crap Past the Radar comments and jokes. 1991 was infamous for having scary moments, but they weren't "grounded in realism" or whatever the kids say these days. The numerous Terry Garvin and Pat Patterson jokes for example. But most of those were really inside whereas Jimmy Valient getting Dusty Rhodes a prostitute to cheer him up was pretty blatant. I mean they show Boogie Woogie pulling up in his car and handing money to (brain fart, can't think of her name) Big Mama. (FYI...she is a Facebook friend, BTW. Real name: Felicia Fanning) Yeah the Patterson/Garvin stuff was the subtle joking I was referring to. There's other examples as well...Genius being a "sausage stuffer" for instance. Rick Martel dressed as a tennis player and saying how Arrogance will make you "#1 seed" in the "Royal Box." Elizabeth doing favors for Jack Tunney (at the time, I didn't think of THAT. More like wondering if she cleaned his office or cooked his meals or something...) |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 12, 2022 11:02:54 GMT -5
Thanks for Big Mama. Was completely blanking on that one.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,844
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Post by 4real on Sept 12, 2022 11:30:57 GMT -5
I was 13 when the Austin v McMahon storyline bought me back into wrestling. So the Attitude era was great timing for me.
Everything seemed fresh. Guys I remembered like Austin & Foley from WCW & Rock & HHH in WWE given fresh new gimics. Kane, New Age Outlaws, X-Pac, Hardcore Holly, Kane & new and exciting talent like Ken Shamrock, Benoit, Eddie, Jericho, Angle, Edge & Christian, Dudleyz, Hardyz etc.
Of course everything didn’t hit but week by week it was so exciting to watch.
Looking back I probably would have dug 96-98 WCW if I was watching at the time just didn’t get much exposure to it when it was happening but of course I heard about Goldberg, DDP, nWo, Crow Sting, Bret going to WCW etc.
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