Some general thoughts on the 2001 Invasion storyline

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

So yeah, my Raw watch through has gotten me up to August 2001 so I'm watching the Invasion storyline between WWF/THE ALLIANCE play out for the first time. 

-In a storyline that’s been picked apart to death, I KNOW there’s been a million think pieces on the DDP/Sara/Undertaker program and ignoring the super gross “well, DDP’s irl wife was hotter than Sara…” narrative that completely disregards how abusers operate, this was just a bad, dumb story that really does f*** up the flow of the rest of the show in a not good way. I just don’t get why they use one of the few actual WCW names on the Invasion side (cause it’s pretty much Booker T, DDP, and uhhhhhhhhhhhh) got slotted into effectively being Undertaker’s bump boy. This is a role you give one of the million warm bodies that flood the ring for these Alliance segments but aren’t actually doing anything, not the King of Bada Bing!

-For this storyline to have any traction, DDP or Booker T (probably Booker since he has the bigger upside at this point) needed to almost immediately win the WWF title in a shock fashion. For real, if you are already dealing with a lack of star power, you HAVE to get the opposing force some real steam right out the box. That symbolic Superman punch to the jaw that lets you know shit is really real. It would not have been a difficult story to tell at all that Austin, amidst all his insecurities with wanting to be Vince’s fave, his ongoing beef with Kurt, Debra constantly in his ear riling him up, would lose just a bit of focus and that loss of focus is all a cat like Booker T needs to steal the gold in a shocker (you could even do a multi-man match with Undertaker if you don’t want Austin pinned!) If you're gonna do an invasion, do an invasion!!!

- The creative direction following WM 17 was actually…pretty decent? Honestly, things were going along decently until they tried to jam in the WCW Invasion because they felt like they had to.

- Nah really, why was Steph placed in charge of the ECW contingent? God bless Steph but her involvement in this story is so…not needed, lol. Paul Heyman’s voice was already all over the show. This is probably the most compelling argument for them intentionally trying to f*** this story up instead of just being unbelievably incompetent. Like, I almost have to think that the role of Austin turning on WWF to go to WCW was intended for HHH before his injury because it makes literally no sense for Steph to be around otherwise.

- As someone who’s recently watched all the Raw’s from 1998 until the Raw after Summerslam 2001, I can definitely see why folks started tuning out this year . Like, heel Stone Cold is fun within a bubble but holy shit, they massacred my boy. Got him begging Vince for hugs and shit. If Austin was a big part of why you got attached to the product, no f***ing wonder you gave up after seeing this nonsense. Yeah, he goes back after the Invasion but the damage has been done unless you figure out a way to MIB memory wipe the last 10 months or so of TV from everybody’s brain. There’s trying something new and then there’s just completely re-writing a character to drive him away from everything that allowed him to carry the business to new heights.

[Jindrak Mark]

The invasion is what broke me as a regular fan and turned me into the dreaded smark I've been ever since. Even as a kid who didn't really think about backstage/non-kayfabe stuff at the time I knew this just didn't feel as important as WWF v WCW should have been.

Every week I was watching hoping Goldberg or Sting or Steiner or the NWO would show up. Booker and DDP were cool but that's not enough star-power to go against the top guys WWF had at the time. And by eventually having The Alliance's top guys be Austin and Angle with Shane/Stephanie/Dudleys/Rhyno in prominent roles it just felt like WWF v WWF. We were already seeing all these people on TV. They were WWF guys. The selling point was seeing the current WCW top stars come over but most of them didn't until way later and the ones that did like DDP and Booker were treated like jokes. The one positive was RVD because he actually felt fresh and new at the time.

[GodzillaIsMyMonster]

The Invasion ppv is still the most non WM biggest buyrate in wrestling history.

But even that show... isn't as great as it could have been.

For one, WCW needed more stars. If you don't want to buy out Hogan, Goldberg, Sting etc. Then at least have Big Show and Jericho turn to WCW.

And for f***s sake, don't turn DDP into a joke.

[koreycaskets]

No matter how much better it should have been I actually enjoyed the Invasion storyline.

[ghost]

Kurt Angle milk truck segment is literally my jump the shark moment for AE WWF. The quality was going down significantly post WM 17 but that moment in particular jumps out at me as a moment I distinctly remember saying “yeah this isn’t as fun as it used to be”. Then 2002 happened, the brand split, Reign of Terror, etc, and they never recovered with me.

But still a big fan of the Austin/Jericho/Benoit (and HHH until he got hurt) angle, though.

[nakedmideon]

Sept 20, 2022 13:55:14 GMT -5 koreycaskets said:

No matter how much better it should have been I actually enjoyed the Invasion storyline.

Yeah im the same.we all know what it should have been but at the time all i knew was WWF.i didn't know many WCW wrestlers so it all felt fresh and exciting to me

[The Blue Nova]

I think the problem was not only the fact that alot of the top WCW guys you would associate with the company were under time warner contract. was the fact at the end of the day it had the Vince Shane and Stephanie as the center of it all. and just seemed just another story arch of the never ending Vince and family saga.

[johncasey]

If it was the other way around and it was going to be a WWE Invasion and all the WWE major stars weren't available until January, I would imagine that Messer's Hogan, Hall and Nash would have petitioned the Higher Ups to wait until the major stars were available.

You can say what you want about them but they know the value of a PPV Payoff and they know that it would be larger if they waited.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

For what it was the InVasion was way better than it should have been

As a dedicated WCW fan, the lack of stars meant that my boys like Awesome and Lance Storm and Hugh Morrus and Saturn got the pops of their f***ing lives

Kanyon! On a Summerslam!

I got disappointed real fast but those first few months were ELECTRIC

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Sept 20, 2022 15:37:56 GMT -5 johncasey said:

If it was the other way around and it was going to be a WWE Invasion and all the WWE major stars weren't available until January, I would imagine that Messer's Hogan, Hall and Nash would have petitioned the Higher Ups to wait until the major stars were available.

You can say what you want about them but they know the value of a PPV Payoff and they know that it would be larger if they waited.

Oh yeah if we are burying ANYONE it's only your top talent

[GodzillaIsMyMonster]

Sept 20, 2022 15:52:00 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

For what it was the InVasion was way better than it should have been

As a dedicated WCW fan, the lack of stars meant that my boys like Awesome and Lance Storm and Hugh Morrus and Saturn got the pops of their f***ing lives

Kanyon! On a Summerslam!

I got disappointed real fast but those first few months were ELECTRIC

Man... Kanyon was awesome.


Seriously. I love the whole "Blood Runs Cold" angle. And Kanyon is an absolute high light of 2000's WCW. If the company didn't go under, he honestly could have been a WCW World champion.

[ToyfareMark]

The main problem was the XFL flopping, and WCW being seen as a toxic brand by the other cable channels. No one wanted to give Vince anything in the wake of those 2 things. I really think they wanted to try to make WCW it's own brand, but you can't sell what no one wants. So with really no other option other than waiting it out for a few years, they figured lets just get this over with.

[Andee9001]

Booker T and DDP were easily the biggest WCW guys they got and neither were really treated as serious stars. DDP got buried and while Booker was used in main event spots they treated him like a joke.

In the months leading up the start of the storyline they lost The Rock, Chris Benoit and Triple H. 2 were solid main eventers and 1 had been used in and out of the main event and mid card scenes since debuting. DDP and Booker could have easily helped fill those gaps even if it was just for a year until those guys were back. Was just a real waste of both guys. At least Booker bounced back.

[Mozenrath]

I don't mind the Stephanie part in that, if you just had Heyman do it, I don't understand what the storyline excuse would be. ECW was turbo dead, and it wasn't exactly a state secret why, even if people at the time may have been unaware of how long Heyman had actually been in Vince's pocket. It'd be difficult, not saying impossible but difficult, to explain why he'd be able to pull this off despite botching his company's existence.

[CMWaters]

If nothing else...it gave Helms some career longevity with the gimmick change during it (though it would have been great to hear "Vertibreaker" on WWF TV at the time)

[sportatorium]

Whole thing was doomed the minute Stephanie was introduced as head of ECW. When Shane was running babyface and it looked like they were going to run WCW at heel Vince it had promise, but turning the entire brand and ECW heel with Stephanie as the figurehead was the worst

[sportatorium]

Sept 20, 2022 20:50:58 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

I don't mind the Stephanie part in that, if you just had Heyman do it, I don't understand what the storyline excuse would be. ECW was turbo dead, and it wasn't exactly a state secret why, even if people at the time may have been unaware of how long Heyman had actually been in Vince's pocket. It'd be difficult, not saying impossible but difficult, to explain why he'd be able to pull this off despite botching his company's existence.

They could have just had Shane kayfabe pay Heyman and the ECW guys to join him. The wrestlers were more over than the watered down WCW "roster" that they had at the time.

[government mule]

The Invasion should have been WWE's cash cow for years. So, so, so much money was left on the table because of Vince's ego, and it eventually left us with absolute bollocks.

[GodzillaIsMyMonster]

Also, I'd have never had ECW join forces with either side. Like, ECW was the rebel. You could even have Stephanie be the "owner" but just have ECW cause trouble and chaos.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Sept 21, 2022 2:33:43 GMT -5 GodzillaIsMyMonster said:

Also, I'd have never had ECW join forces with either side. Like, ECW was the rebel. You could even have Stephanie be the "owner" but just have ECW cause trouble and chaos.

Yep I have thought this since 2001

ECW collaborating with WCW may have happened in reality In the 90s, but in kayfabe the ECW brand was massively anti WCW. Having them team up against the WWF didn't make a lick of sense. If ECW was teaming with either of those two it would 100% be WWF

But as you say, in reality they should been a renegade, instigating third part of this war, as they were in reality