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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Sept 25, 2022 8:13:33 GMT -5
Triple H definitely cares about IYO, though I do think he probably sees her more as a reliable B+ than as a headliner given how giddily he pretty much threw her under the bus and played up how the division sucked under her when it came time to push Raquel (and before that how her whole heel character was founded on repeatedly putting Shayna over), but I do think it's fair to say Dakota probably isn't much of a priority. I don't think he has anything against her exactly but she's pretty consistently only really been given a spotlight when it's as an outlet to push someone else.
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Post by mistery on Sept 25, 2022 8:26:27 GMT -5
Triple H definitely cares about IYO, though I do think he probably sees her more as a reliable B+ than as a headliner given how giddily he pretty much threw her under the bus and played up how the division sucked under her when it came time to push Raquel (and before that how her whole heel character was founded on repeatedly putting Shayna over), but I do think it's fair to say Dakota probably isn't much of a priority. I don't think he has anything against her exactly but she's pretty consistently only really been given a spotlight when it's as an outlet to push someone else. Which is utterly baffling since Iyo has proven she's a more valuable asset at this point than Raquel is. Raquel is basically female Karrion Kross, both in terms of charisma and outside of the ring. While Iyo's stuff on NXT while she was champion was one of the few actual segments that drew in large numbers of viewers (her match against Shotzi drew like 725k, her match against Candice at Halloween Havoc drew 820k for the match, and her match against Raquel broke a million viewers). I don't think its a coincidence that once Raquel won the title, viewership started going down until the rebrand. Because Triple H pretty much buried Iyo's reign the week after it ended, and then kept making mistakes like pushing Raquel as a babyface even against Dakota (who the audience was 100% behind). I just think Triple H has a type, like Vince did. And Iyo doesn't fit into that type. But Bianca, Rhea, and Raquel all do. He likes Chyna like women. But I do think the only reason Iyo was kept around at this point is because they know if they lost her, any sort of potential future expansion into Japan would be dead at best. Considering they've already buried Sarray ten feet under, when she was supposed to be the young Japanese woman the company wanted to mold into an "ideal WWE star", they can't really afford to lose Iyo either. Asuka isn't exactly popular in Japan either. Thing is, Triple H is likely going to get away with mishandling Iyo, because social media is placing all of the blame on her for everything bad about Damage CTRL right now. Including last week's brawl on Smackdown, where Shotzi forgot her spots, and Graves even buried her (Shotzi) on commentary for it, but it was somehow Iyo's fault. And Iyo looked really good at last night's house show, so it's pretty obvious she's getting back into form.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Sept 25, 2022 8:30:41 GMT -5
Starting early with the “Triple H only pushes people he wants to have sex with” stuff.
He truly is Vince’s heir.
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Post by mistery on Sept 25, 2022 8:37:49 GMT -5
Starting early with the “Triple H only pushes people he wants to have sex with” stuff. He truly is Vince’s heir. I mean I don't think he wants to have sex with them. He just has this idea that people are only interested in seeing those types of women. And I don't think its a coincidence that Bianca, Rhea, and Raquel had a segment the week after Raquel won the title where commentary was burying Iyo's reign and acting like Raquel saved the division. And how those three women will be the face of the company. And continuing to push Raquel as a face even though she was almost universally rejected by the fans.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 25, 2022 8:50:41 GMT -5
Starting early with the “Triple H only pushes people he wants to have sex with” stuff. He truly is Vince’s heir. I mean I don't think he wants to have sex with them. He just has this idea that people are only interested in seeing those types of women. And I don't think its a coincidence that Bianca, Rhea, and Raquel had a segment the week after Raquel won the title where commentary was burying Iyo's reign and acting like Raquel saved the division. And how those three women will be the face of the company. And continuing to push Raquel as a face even though she was almost universally rejected by the fans. I think for all the things Triple H does well as a booker there are times he does show there's a disconnect between what he thinks is cool and what the audience likes. He clearly thinks Raquel is cool as well but aside from the buildup to her match with Iyo she's never really had momentum as a character. Stuff like him thinking Kross is amazing and not realizing that Swerve is what made Hit Row work are other examples IMO.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Sept 25, 2022 9:15:42 GMT -5
I think they’ll be fine. The group isn’t totally clicking but I also don’t think they’ll be together forever. The idea is to get fans to know they’re important by putting them with Bayley and folks will care when they split.
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Post by sunnytaker on Sept 25, 2022 10:43:11 GMT -5
This feud is basically...Bayley was ready to come back and old H really didn't wanna lose IO or Dakota Kai so it was a quick fix to get a top performer back on TV while also giving rub to 2 NXT talents he didn't want to lose. The problem is outside of the SS pop, there's nothing there. No reason they are together, no story. And their feud is literally against 3 women thrown together just cause. The main problem is their first feud is against Bianca, and while Bayley will probably be fine at the end of the day, Iyo and Dakota will not. Because this story is likely ending with Bianca standing tall. And Bayley has main roster clout already. Where Iyo and Dakota do not, and have been portrayed as extremely weak on the main roster. Especially Iyo, as her only singles match to date was against Bianca Belair, who dominated like 90% of their match and made Iyo look INCREDIBLY weak. And there is literally no reason to think their match on Monday won't be any different. It doesn't help that while Asuka has been motivated, Alexa is the exact opposite of motivated, and its dragging down Dakota and Iyo in the process. yeah with bayley going after bianca it didn;t really matter if Iyo and Dakota had the tag belts or not because both would be treated as stepping stones for bianca to get past before she can get to bayley a la heel stable dynamics 101. and i wonder if Iyo was told to hold back possibly since they didn;t want her potentially overshadowing bayley if she went full genius of the sky like in NXT. also can dakota ever get a W over raquel at some point? i don;t care if the entire locker room beats down raquel and dakota falls on top of her for the three but this is nearing harlem globetrotters vs washington generals levels of one sided-ness. granted raquel is the next chosen one it would seem but still.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Sept 25, 2022 11:23:50 GMT -5
The main problem is their first feud is against Bianca, and while Bayley will probably be fine at the end of the day, Iyo and Dakota will not. Because this story is likely ending with Bianca standing tall. And Bayley has main roster clout already. Where Iyo and Dakota do not, and have been portrayed as extremely weak on the main roster. Especially Iyo, as her only singles match to date was against Bianca Belair, who dominated like 90% of their match and made Iyo look INCREDIBLY weak. And there is literally no reason to think their match on Monday won't be any different. It doesn't help that while Asuka has been motivated, Alexa is the exact opposite of motivated, and its dragging down Dakota and Iyo in the process. yeah with bayley going after bianca it didn;t really matter if Iyo and Dakota had the tag belts or not because both would be treated as stepping stones for bianca to get past before she can get to bayley a la heel stable dynamics 101. and i wonder if Iyo was told to hold back possibly since they didn;t want her potentially overshadowing bayley if she went full genius of the sky like in NXT. also can dakota ever get a W over raquel at some point? i don;t care if the entire locker room beats down raquel and dakota falls on top of her for the three but this is nearing harlem globetrotters vs washington generals levels of one sided-ness. granted raquel is the next chosen one it would seem but still. I really don't see the chosen one thing with Raquel. She's been on the main roster for 6 months and her only PPV match was a multi-person MITB match. She was fed to Ronda in her second match. She won the tag titles and immediately dropped them back then lost to Bayley the same week. She's midcard/upper-midcard at best. She wins more than she loses in nothing Smackdown matches (as she should, look at her) but she's probably not even top 10 in the division. The easy way to see who the top dogs are is who gets the key spots on PPVs and she isn't one of those people. Could that change? Sure, Bianca had a pretty quiet first 6-9 months after being called up then won the Rumble and main evented Wrestlemania but I just don't see that happening with Raquel.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Sept 25, 2022 13:49:54 GMT -5
one big issue is whenever I see the name I say "DAMAGE CATERL"in my head, they need to fix that if they want to make it
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Post by theironyuppie on Sept 25, 2022 14:08:56 GMT -5
yeah with bayley going after bianca it didn;t really matter if Iyo and Dakota had the tag belts or not because both would be treated as stepping stones for bianca to get past before she can get to bayley a la heel stable dynamics 101. and i wonder if Iyo was told to hold back possibly since they didn;t want her potentially overshadowing bayley if she went full genius of the sky like in NXT. also can dakota ever get a W over raquel at some point? i don;t care if the entire locker room beats down raquel and dakota falls on top of her for the three but this is nearing harlem globetrotters vs washington generals levels of one sided-ness. granted raquel is the next chosen one it would seem but still. I really don't see the chosen one thing with Raquel. She's been on the main roster for 6 months and her only PPV match was a multi-person MITB match. She was fed to Ronda in her second match. She won the tag titles and immediately dropped them back then lost to Bayley the same week. She's midcard/upper-midcard at best. She wins more than she loses in nothing Smackdown matches (as she should, look at her) but she's probably not even top 10 in the division. The easy way to see who the top dogs are is who gets the key spots on PPVs and she isn't one of those people. Could that change? Sure, Bianca had a pretty quiet first 6-9 months after being called up then won the Rumble and main evented Wrestlemania but I just don't see that happening with Raquel.
As long as Raquel's a face, there's a pretty obvious ceiling when both brands have had face champs for the last several months. And Bianca did have a relatively quiet period, but she got more protected in that time than Raquel has. Bianca lost only one singles WWE TV match before October last year, and that was due to Bayley cheating.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Sept 25, 2022 14:12:02 GMT -5
I agree that I don't think you can say Triple H doesn't care about Dakota or Iyo. I also think something is a bit off with the group now. I saw someone mention it earlier, but I do wonder if there is a situation where they thought Sasha and Naomi would be locked up sooner... or if they already are locked up that they'd begin working sooner? Just speculation but it does seem like things have been slowed down a lot since a hot start cause I don't think it's an issue where they weren't over. My hunch is they’re waiting until they’re a bit closer to Survivor Series so they can come back in as part of the WarGames match, and then they have the feud over the belts from there. Damage CTRL is already feuding with a bunch of faces as it is though where I don't know where they would fit in. Right now they're beefing with Bianca, Asuka, Alexa, Raqwel, Aliyah, and Shotzi. Becky might possibly be back by then as well. Also is Wargames 4 on 4 or 5 on 5? I assumed 4 on 4 as that's how they've always done them (sans the first year where it was three teams of three against each other) since they started doing them in WWE. However when people speculate about who is going to be in the matches they are making it sound like it's going to be 5 on 5. Don't think I've heard a statement saying either.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 25, 2022 17:49:23 GMT -5
This feud is basically...Bayley was ready to come back and old H really didn't wanna lose IO or Dakota Kai so it was a quick fix to get a top performer back on TV while also giving rub to 2 NXT talents he didn't want to lose. The problem is outside of the SS pop, there's nothing there. No reason they are together, no story. And their feud is literally against 3 women thrown together just cause. This is probably the main issue; Dakota has even said she was contacted very shortly before SummerSlam about returning, so a lot of this sounds pretty last minute and slapped together, which does make it tough to have something more developed in place. That can be fixed over time, obviously, but it does seem to have a "quick fix" air to it, going by the talk here. I also wonder if it's just tough to make stables, even something as small as a trio, work when you've got a division that's lacking in numbers the way the main roster women's divisions are in WWE. Probably work better in NXT where everyone's under one roof.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,876
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Post by schma on Sept 25, 2022 19:21:31 GMT -5
one big issue is whenever I see the name I say "DAMAGE CATERL"in my head, they need to fix that if they want to make it I always think of Homer trying to find the "Any" key.
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gl83
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,029
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Post by gl83 on Sept 25, 2022 19:44:49 GMT -5
I understand wanting to have Bayley lead a faction to freshen her presentation but I just don't think the three of work as a trio and would probably all be better off on their own. While all three are talented they don't come off like a unit. Granted they've only been a group for two months so maybe it's premature to say that. Toxic Attraction and The Riott Squad are other examples of heel women trios who didn't make any sense at all either at first and eventually gelled and started coming off very much like a unit. At the moment though it just seems like something to appease Bayley and Hunter went with it because all three are favorites of his but at the same time didn't really have a plan for what their direction is and what their goal is supposed to be. As far as their booking goes it could be better but it hasn't been terrible either. Both Bayley and Io have been protected as neither have done any jobs since the group debuted. Dakota has been the fall girl but that was to be expected and even in her case the two times she was pinned were off fluky distraction roll up finishes so even she's being protected to a degree. If anything I thought tonight's finish made Raquel look weak in that a woman as big and strong as her would have to resort to using a bitch rollup to pin someone she outweighed by like sixty pounds instead of powerbombing her. The Shotzi stuff probably isn't ideal but they are hurting badly for babyfaces on Smackdown so I can understand it simply in the sense that they have to try with someone. I also think Becky getting injured the same night they debuted forcing them to pivot also hurt them as she would've been much more effective in Alexa's role as the babyfaces apposing them. Also she would've provided a better foil for Bayley on the mic then Bianca who is an alright promo but that that great either. Also, considering how Raquel has basically steamrolled through everyone in her path not named Ronda Rousey on SmackDown(Shayna, Natalya, Sonya, Shotzi & Xia Li), and even people on Raw(Doudrop) and NXT(Toxic Attraction). So the fact that she needed a distraction-aided rollup to beat Dakota instead of using her finisher does seem to indicate that they do want to protect them a bit. This feud is basically...Bayley was ready to come back and old H really didn't wanna lose IO or Dakota Kai so it was a quick fix to get a top performer back on TV while also giving rub to 2 NXT talents he didn't want to lose. The problem is outside of the SS pop, there's nothing there. No reason they are together, no story. And their feud is literally against 3 women thrown together just cause. This is probably the main issue; Dakota has even said she was contacted very shortly before SummerSlam about returning, so a lot of this sounds pretty last minute and slapped together, which does make it tough to have something more developed in place. That can be fixed over time, obviously, but it does seem to have a "quick fix" air to it, going by the talk here. I also wonder if it's just tough to make stables, even something as small as a trio, work when you've got a division that's lacking in numbers the way the main roster women's divisions are in WWE. Probably work better in NXT where everyone's under one roof. This is probably the biggest issue that's preventing Damage Ctrl from being a dominant faction. The problem is there's a big lack of Faces in the division as well as the gap between the Top girls(who need to be protected) and the scrubs. It creates a situation where you don't have enough girls whom you can have Damage Ctrl beat down and destroy consistently to make them seem like a dangerous faction ala Judgement Day. Like on Raw you got Bianca, Becky, Alexa and Asuka whom you want to protect and treat as major players. Then there's Dana and Tamina who are fodder. Smackdown you have Liv, Raquel and I guess Shotzi...and then there's Aliyah. There's really no midcard acts whom you can have get decimated by Damage Ctrl to build them up as threats like Judgement Day does with Rey Mysterio.
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Post by Hypnosis on Sept 25, 2022 21:03:46 GMT -5
I understand wanting to have Bayley lead a faction to freshen her presentation but I just don't think the three of work as a trio and would probably all be better off on their own. While all three are talented they don't come off like a unit. Granted they've only been a group for two months so maybe it's premature to say that. Toxic Attraction and The Riott Squad are other examples of heel women trios who didn't make any sense at all either at first and eventually gelled and started coming off very much like a unit. At the moment though it just seems like something to appease Bayley and Hunter went with it because all three are favorites of his but at the same time didn't really have a plan for what their direction is and what their goal is supposed to be. As far as their booking goes it could be better but it hasn't been terrible either. Both Bayley and Io have been protected as neither have done any jobs since the group debuted. Dakota has been the fall girl but that was to be expected and even in her case the two times she was pinned were off fluky distraction roll up finishes so even she's being protected to a degree. If anything I thought tonight's finish made Raquel look weak in that a woman as big and strong as her would have to resort to using a bitch rollup to pin someone she outweighed by like sixty pounds instead of powerbombing her. The Shotzi stuff probably isn't ideal but they are hurting badly for babyfaces on Smackdown so I can understand it simply in the sense that they have to try with someone. I also think Becky getting injured the same night they debuted forcing them to pivot also hurt them as she would've been much more effective in Alexa's role as the babyfaces apposing them. Also she would've provided a better foil for Bayley on the mic then Bianca who is an alright promo but that that great either. Also, considering how Raquel has basically steamrolled through everyone in her path not named Ronda Rousey on SmackDown(Shayna, Natalya, Sonya, Shotzi & Xia Li), and even people on Raw(Doudrop) and NXT(Toxic Attraction). So the fact that she needed a distraction-aided rollup to beat Dakota instead of using her finisher does seem to indicate that they do want to protect them a bit. This is probably the main issue; Dakota has even said she was contacted very shortly before SummerSlam about returning, so a lot of this sounds pretty last minute and slapped together, which does make it tough to have something more developed in place. That can be fixed over time, obviously, but it does seem to have a "quick fix" air to it, going by the talk here. I also wonder if it's just tough to make stables, even something as small as a trio, work when you've got a division that's lacking in numbers the way the main roster women's divisions are in WWE. Probably work better in NXT where everyone's under one roof. This is probably the biggest issue that's preventing Damage Ctrl from being a dominant faction. The problem is there's a big lack of Faces in the division as well as the gap between the Top girls(who need to be protected) and the scrubs. It creates a situation where you don't have enough girls whom you can have Damage Ctrl beat down and destroy consistently to make them seem like a dangerous faction ala Judgement Day. Like on Raw you got Bianca, Becky, Alexa and Asuka whom you want to protect and treat as major players. Then there's Dana and Tamina who are fodder. Smackdown you have Liv, Raquel and I guess Shotzi...and then there's Aliyah. There's really no midcard acts whom you can have get decimated by Damage Ctrl to build them up as threats like Judgement Day does with Rey Mysterio.Would bringing in local indy women to put Damage CTRL over help a little?
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 25, 2022 21:40:41 GMT -5
one big issue is whenever I see the name I say "DAMAGE CATERL"in my head, they need to fix that if they want to make it I always think of Homer trying to find the "Any" key. I await the stable called PG Up and PG Down.
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on Sept 25, 2022 22:40:28 GMT -5
I mean, Triple H isn't this most creative guy and the crew they have from Hayes to Prichard to Dunn and the writers aren't that great as there is still strong WWEisms.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Sept 26, 2022 5:45:12 GMT -5
Also, considering how Raquel has basically steamrolled through everyone in her path not named Ronda Rousey on SmackDown(Shayna, Natalya, Sonya, Shotzi & Xia Li), and even people on Raw(Doudrop) and NXT(Toxic Attraction). So the fact that she needed a distraction-aided rollup to beat Dakota instead of using her finisher does seem to indicate that they do want to protect them a bit. This is probably the biggest issue that's preventing Damage Ctrl from being a dominant faction. The problem is there's a big lack of Faces in the division as well as the gap between the Top girls(who need to be protected) and the scrubs. It creates a situation where you don't have enough girls whom you can have Damage Ctrl beat down and destroy consistently to make them seem like a dangerous faction ala Judgement Day. Like on Raw you got Bianca, Becky, Alexa and Asuka whom you want to protect and treat as major players. Then there's Dana and Tamina who are fodder. Smackdown you have Liv, Raquel and I guess Shotzi...and then there's Aliyah. There's really no midcard acts whom you can have get decimated by Damage Ctrl to build them up as threats like Judgement Day does with Rey Mysterio.Would bringing in local indy women to put Damage CTRL over help a little? People keep saying that it would, but I look at how little people give a shit about AEW Dark and Elevation and it’s like… Most fans want to see the stars versus the stars. 1980s-style Wrestling Challenge enhancement shows on prime time cable ain’t ever coming back. The issue is obviously depth. Look at how much struggle the men’s tag divisions have had, and they have like three times as many teams.
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 26, 2022 8:51:15 GMT -5
Also, considering how Raquel has basically steamrolled through everyone in her path not named Ronda Rousey on SmackDown(Shayna, Natalya, Sonya, Shotzi & Xia Li), and even people on Raw(Doudrop) and NXT(Toxic Attraction). So the fact that she needed a distraction-aided rollup to beat Dakota instead of using her finisher does seem to indicate that they do want to protect them a bit. This is probably the biggest issue that's preventing Damage Ctrl from being a dominant faction. The problem is there's a big lack of Faces in the division as well as the gap between the Top girls(who need to be protected) and the scrubs. It creates a situation where you don't have enough girls whom you can have Damage Ctrl beat down and destroy consistently to make them seem like a dangerous faction ala Judgement Day. Like on Raw you got Bianca, Becky, Alexa and Asuka whom you want to protect and treat as major players. Then there's Dana and Tamina who are fodder. Smackdown you have Liv, Raquel and I guess Shotzi...and then there's Aliyah. There's really no midcard acts whom you can have get decimated by Damage Ctrl to build them up as threats like Judgement Day does with Rey Mysterio.Would bringing in local indy women to put Damage CTRL over help a little? I don’t think so. Just more depth in the division is needed. They should re-sign as many of the cuts they can. Sasha, Naomi, Tegan Nox, Billie Kay, Taya, Chelsea Green. Carmella and Zelina should be back from injury soon as well. Maybe make a call up or two soon as well with Toxic Attraction and Roxanne being good candidates.
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Post by mistery on Sept 26, 2022 19:54:22 GMT -5
Congrats to Damage CTRL, looking incredibly weak tonight, just like they were on Friday.
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