Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,404
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Sept 27, 2022 10:25:06 GMT -5
One thing I love to do at shows is find a vet and just pick their brain.
Well years back I had a long conversation with Bill Dundee about Smart,marks and Smarks.
"Stop right there sir. Either you are a mark or you are smart. Smarks don't exist. It is just a word made up by marks to make themselves seem better than other marks."
So I asked Mr Dundee to give me what he thinks a smart is. "If you are getting paid to be at the show and can walk into the locker room and not get throw out you are smart. A mark pays to get in and if they entered the locker room would be thrown out."
Last year finally got to meet A long time southern vet and asked him the same question,and told him what Superstar had told me "Well Bill is right. Smarks is just a word the marks came up with to make them feel better about THEMSELVES."
Now sure I am in the deep south where lots of the vets try to keep kayfabe alive. And I get that. But wondering if in other areas of the country if the vets think the same way.
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Post by hentery on Sept 27, 2022 11:06:13 GMT -5
Safe assumption.
I’ve always seen the term as derogatory to fans who think they’re smart and talk like the boys but aren’t anywhere near the boys. I’ve also seen fans both embrace and despise the term.
he’s right tho. You really can’t be smart to something and also a mark. If you’re paying to see them you don’t know everything that’s going on. A lot of what you know is rumor or conjecture. You’re a fan.
I really think we try to be too in the biz since internet and often lose track of the fun of watching the show.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Sept 27, 2022 12:28:12 GMT -5
William Regal had the best take. Calling people marks is deeply insulting because you're saying they're idiots when they're the whole reason you can keep the lights on in the first place.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Sept 27, 2022 13:18:47 GMT -5
I always thought smark(or “Smart Mark”) was an oxymoron.
“Mark” comes from the carny days as a term referring to someone who falls for parler tricks. If you know how it works, you can’t be a “mark.” You can be smart and appreciate the craft, but you know how the sausage is made.
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pinja
Unicron
Posts: 2,998
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Post by pinja on Sept 27, 2022 13:27:55 GMT -5
Can it be pinpointed when or around when the term emerged, where and by whom?
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Ozman
Samurai Cop
Chi-Town!!!
Posts: 2,374
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Post by Ozman on Sept 27, 2022 14:03:14 GMT -5
I agree with Dundee. Smark is a term made up by fans that read the dirtsheets and pretend like they know the inner workings of the wrestling business.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2022 14:10:35 GMT -5
Personally, I think using the term "mark" or any iteration of it "smart mark, smark, etc" unironically in this day and age is straight up cringe.
Everybody knows it's a work. I don't see magicians calling people who go to magic shows marks.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 27, 2022 14:12:07 GMT -5
Do stage actors talk this way about people who pay to see them?
Am I not a proper musician because I know how to play guitar but don't hang out with Yngwie Malmsteen?
Wrestling is so stupid
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2022 14:13:46 GMT -5
Do stage actors talk this way about people who pay to see them? Am I not a proper musician because I know how to play guitar but don't hang out with Yngwie Malmsteen? Wrestling is so stupid No, you're a better musician because you DON'T hang out with Yngwie Malmsteen. If you did, you'd forget everything you know except for diminished arpeggio sweeps.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 27, 2022 14:14:56 GMT -5
Do stage actors talk this way about people who pay to see them? Am I not a proper musician because I know how to play guitar but don't hang out with Yngwie Malmsteen? Wrestling is so stupid No, you're a better musician because you DON'T hang out with Yngwie Malmsteen. If you did, you'd forget everything you know except for diminished arpeggio sweeps. Played a thousand notes a second Never drew a dime
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Sept 27, 2022 14:29:21 GMT -5
Personally, I think using the term "mark" or any iteration of it "smart mark, smark, etc" unironically in this day and age is straight up cringe. Everybody knows it's a work. I don't see magicians calling people who go to magic shows marks. FIRE ME, YOU f***ING MARK
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,295
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Post by The Ichi on Sept 27, 2022 14:43:38 GMT -5
I'm in the "it's all cringe and outdated" camp.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 27, 2022 14:43:51 GMT -5
Mark has its in the carnival days where the barker or someone working for the carnival would be able to see who had money. Getting them to spend their money on the games was the difference between a rube and a mark. So anyone who spends money on wrestling is a mark. It's one of the reasons I hated that MJF promo so much. Mark isn't an insult, I accept that I'm a mark. But yeah having some understanding of the business does not negate being a mark.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Sept 27, 2022 14:46:47 GMT -5
im better than all wrestlers by virtue of not being a wrestler so being called a mark is like a jack russell yapping at you or a cold breeze
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Sept 27, 2022 14:55:43 GMT -5
I'm in the "it's all cringe and outdated" camp. Imagine deluding yourself into thinking you're pulling off some kind of deception and acting like your paid customers are clueless losers you're getting one over on. It's embarrassing. It's the attitudes of people who were in the business in a different time and don't want to let go, and people who saw that attitude growing up and now that they're on the inside want to perpetuate it because it puffs their egos up.
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Post by Mr Mario Mario on Sept 27, 2022 15:02:55 GMT -5
William Regal had the best take. Calling people marks is deeply insulting because you're saying they're idiots when they're the whole reason you can keep the lights on in the first place. Exactly It speaks to the warped mentality of some of those in the business “You paid your hard-earned money to come watch me perform? You f****** loser!”
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 27, 2022 15:04:29 GMT -5
William Regal had the best take. Calling people marks is deeply insulting because you're saying they're idiots when they're the whole reason you can keep the lights on in the first place. Mark has its in the carnival days where the barker or someone working for the carnival would be able to see who had money. Getting them to spend their money on the games was the difference between a rube and a mark. So anyone who spends money on wrestling is a mark. It's one of the reasons I hated that MJF promo so much. Mark isn't an insult, I accept that I'm a mark. But yeah having some understanding of the business does not negate being a mark. And as Regal says he's one of the few with experience in that environment so if he thinks it's insulting others shouldn't use it either. The ironic think is some wrestlers are bigger "marks" than the people watching. Even back in the day people paying had it figured out, they're basically parents keeping acting like Santa is real long after their kids worked it out. Insert Hogan tweet here.
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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Sept 27, 2022 15:16:40 GMT -5
William Regal had the best take. Calling people marks is deeply insulting because you're saying they're idiots when they're the whole reason you can keep the lights on in the first place. Mark has its in the carnival days where the barker or someone working for the carnival would be able to see who had money. Getting them to spend their money on the games was the difference between a rube and a mark. So anyone who spends money on wrestling is a mark. It's one of the reasons I hated that MJF promo so much. Mark isn't an insult, I accept that I'm a mark. But yeah having some understanding of the business does not negate being a mark. And as Regal says he's one of the few with experience in that environment so if he thinks it's insulting others shouldn't use it either. The ironic think is some wrestlers are bigger "marks" than the people watching. Even back in the day people paying had it figured out, they're basically parents keeping acting like Santa is real long after their kids worked it out. Insert Hogan tweet here. I always say this. The amount of actual wrestling fans who were completely in the dark as to wrestling's nature is vastly over-estimated by the old timers. If you were in the front row of wrestling shows back in the day, you would have seen stuff that would make you question stuff.
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Wieners=$$$
Hank Scorpio
Gif Master Extraordinaire
Smokin' Bones
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Sept 27, 2022 15:43:45 GMT -5
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Sept 27, 2022 16:02:53 GMT -5
Mark has its in the carnival days where the barker or someone working for the carnival would be able to see who had money. Getting them to spend their money on the games was the difference between a rube and a mark. So anyone who spends money on wrestling is a mark. It's one of the reasons I hated that MJF promo so much. Mark isn't an insult, I accept that I'm a mark. But yeah having some understanding of the business does not negate being a mark. Its even more literal than that, someone working for the carnival would have chalk on their hand, and put their hand on the person's shoulder to mark them.
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