tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,124
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Post by tafkaga on Nov 22, 2022 11:49:34 GMT -5
What's with Jim Ross starting in May-ish of '97?
Dude suddenly starts constantly dropping names left and right, referring to history every chance he gets, mentioning other wrestling organizations, going into wrestler's backstories. Every Faarooq match, he reminds us that his real name is Ron Simmons and goes into his whole collegiate history just like he did in WCW. Every Goldust match is sprinkled with mentions of Dusty Rhodes. He mentions the Hollywood Blonds when Austin and Pillman are about to face off on Raw. Tells us about how LOD were the tag champions in the NWA and AWA. Lots of USWA references when Jerry Lawler is on the screen. Someone did a suplex and he called it "Harley Race-like". He talks about Cactus Jack during Mankind matches. Mention of how Vader started his career as the "Baby Bull".
It's borderline annoying after a while, because certain recalls don't do anything to put the wrestler over. It's more like Ross just nerding out over a wrestling encyclopedia.
Also, acknowledging history was never a thing that Vince seemed to go for, so it seems weird to me that suddenly Ross has a green light to become wrestling historian on live television.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Nov 22, 2022 12:54:18 GMT -5
I would think just grounding the product more in reality than they had previously to fit with the changing attitude, and moving away from stereotypical heel and face dynamics.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 22, 2022 15:23:34 GMT -5
Just sounds like typical JR of trying to come off like the smartest guy in the room and trying to get himself over showing how smart he to the detriment of the characters and the story being presented. I know a lot of people like JR pre 1998 but I think it was an upgrade when he became cowboy JR. Still had the enthusiasm but he was more focused and not as concerned about putting himself over brining up useless information about info from past companies or collage athletics because he's such a mark for football.
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Post by nakedmideon on Nov 22, 2022 17:09:22 GMT -5
I think the product was changing and this was a way of portraying more reality based.
I agree with you though,its my biggest criticism of JR.it would take you out the moment when he would mention wrestlers college background or high school football team i used to hate it.
Yes we all know wrestling is scripted but i like to get lost in kayfabe while watching and this stuff was horrible.especially with wrestlers like Vader or Mankind
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 22, 2022 17:30:36 GMT -5
I think the product was changing and this was a way of portraying more reality based. I agree with you though,its my biggest criticism of JR.it would take you out the moment when he would mention wrestlers college background or high school football team i used to hate it. Yes we all know wrestling is scripted but i like to get lost in kayfabe while watching and this stuff was horrible.especially with wrestlers like Vader or Mankind I remember it being really bad at King of the Ring 1993. Talking about Mr. Hughes who are they trying to push as this unstoppable hitman guy going to Kansas State. Or tax accountant Irwin R. Schyster being a star athlete at the University of Syracuse. You can kind of tell Savage and Heenan were kind of getting annoyed with him. At one point he even starts making stuff up actually saying that the Smoking Gunns had a "Rodeo Scholarship". Which at that point I think Heenan kind of snapped at him and said something to the effects of "DO YOU KNOW WHERE EVERYONE WENT TO SCHOOL!". |
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Post by nakedmideon on Nov 22, 2022 18:41:16 GMT -5
I think the product was changing and this was a way of portraying more reality based. I agree with you though,its my biggest criticism of JR.it would take you out the moment when he would mention wrestlers college background or high school football team i used to hate it. Yes we all know wrestling is scripted but i like to get lost in kayfabe while watching and this stuff was horrible.especially with wrestlers like Vader or Mankind I remember it being really bad at King of the Ring 1993. Talking about Mr. Hughes who are they trying to push as this unstoppable hitman guy going to Kansas State. Or tax accountant Irwin R. Schyster being a star athlete at the University of Syracuse. You can kind of tell Savage and Heenan were kind of getting annoyed with him. At one point he even starts making stuff up actually saying that the Smoking Gunns had a "Rodeo Scholarship". Which at that point I think Heenan kind of snapped at him and said something to the effects of "DO YOU KNOW WHERE EVERYONE WENT TO SCHOOL!". Yeah it was really bad and totally not needed.it didn't add anything it only harmed the product.if im watching Vader v Mankind the last thing i want to hear about is their 'normal' lives.im very surprised Vince let it happen as much as it |
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 22, 2022 19:52:56 GMT -5
I remember it being really bad at King of the Ring 1993. Talking about Mr. Hughes who are they trying to push as this unstoppable hitman guy going to Kansas State. Or tax accountant Irwin R. Schyster being a star athlete at the University of Syracuse. You can kind of tell Savage and Heenan were kind of getting annoyed with him. At one point he even starts making stuff up actually saying that the Smoking Gunns had a "Rodeo Scholarship". Which at that point I think Heenan kind of snapped at him and said something to the effects of "DO YOU KNOW WHERE EVERYONE WENT TO SCHOOL!". Yeah it was really bad and totally not needed.it didn't add anything it only harmed the product.if im watching Vader v Mankind the last thing i want to hear about is their 'normal' lives.im very surprised Vince let it happen as much as it I'm guessing it did probably play a role in Vince not being a big fan of him early on. After King of the Ring 1993 I don't think he did another PPV for brodcast for over two years (IYH 3 in September 1995 I believe was his next one) and even fired a few times. |
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,659
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Post by thecrusherwi on Nov 22, 2022 19:52:57 GMT -5
I think the product was changing and this was a way of portraying more reality based. I agree with you though,its my biggest criticism of JR.it would take you out the moment when he would mention wrestlers college background or high school football team i used to hate it. Yes we all know wrestling is scripted but i like to get lost in kayfabe while watching and this stuff was horrible.especially with wrestlers like Vader or Mankind I remember it being really bad at King of the Ring 1993. Talking about Mr. Hughes who are they trying to push as this unstoppable hitman guy going to Kansas State. Or tax accountant Irwin R. Schyster being a star athlete at the University of Syracuse. You can kind of tell Savage and Heenan were kind of getting annoyed with him. At one point he even starts making stuff up actually saying that the Smoking Gunns had a "Rodeo Scholarship". Which at that point I think Heenan kind of snapped at him and said something to the effects of "DO YOU KNOW WHERE EVERYONE WENT TO SCHOOL!". Yeah JR used to be obsessed with people’s real sports background. Even Cowboy JR would bring it up until King started making fun of him. There’s one PPV where King says “Come on JR tell us where he played football” and JR says “I ain’t gonna do it now you hurt my feelings”. None of his football references were worse than when he’d boast that Marcus Alexander Bagwell was a standout athlete at Sprayberry High School in Marietta, GA. Like who cares about high school sports achievements? It sounded lame. It’s bad enough to be Uncle Rico. He was Uncle Rico’ing for someone else! |
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,605
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Post by cjh on Nov 22, 2022 19:57:37 GMT -5
There were some Mantaur and Man Mountain Rock matches on Superstars in 1995 where Vince, not JR, used their real names and put over their backgrounds in sports.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 22, 2022 20:02:04 GMT -5
I remember it being really bad at King of the Ring 1993. Talking about Mr. Hughes who are they trying to push as this unstoppable hitman guy going to Kansas State. Or tax accountant Irwin R. Schyster being a star athlete at the University of Syracuse. You can kind of tell Savage and Heenan were kind of getting annoyed with him. At one point he even starts making stuff up actually saying that the Smoking Gunns had a "Rodeo Scholarship". Which at that point I think Heenan kind of snapped at him and said something to the effects of "DO YOU KNOW WHERE EVERYONE WENT TO SCHOOL!". Yeah JR used to be obsessed with people’s real sports background. Even Cowboy JR would bring it up until King started making fun of him. There’s one PPV where King says “Come on JR tell us where he played football” and JR says “I ain’t gonna do it now you hurt my feelings”. None of his football references were worse than when he’d boast that Marcus Alexander Bagwell was a standout athlete at Sprayberry High School in Marietta, GA. Like who cares about high school sports achievements? It sounded lame. It’s bad enough to be Uncle Rico. He was Uncle Rico’ing for someone else! Them obsessing over Bagwell's high school was strange. I also remember him putting over Butch Reed's footbal career at the University of Central Missouri which is a NCAA Division II Collage. Bringing that up if anything actually was a disservice to Reed as nobody is going to find it impressive that he was good at such a low level of football. WCW in general had some strange obsession with school athletics in the late 80's and early 90's and I'm guessing Ross had a lot to do with it as that's when he was there. Seemed like once he was gone and Bischoff was in charge that pretty much went away. I remember them even announcing Erik Watts from being the University of Louisville with Jesse Ventura even quipping "Why is he announced from being from the University of Louisville? Does the guy still live on campus or something?" |
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,124
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Post by tafkaga on Nov 22, 2022 20:10:35 GMT -5
Just sounds like typical JR of trying to come off like the smartest guy in the room and trying to get himself over showing how smart he to the detriment of the characters and the story being presented. I know a lot of people like JR pre 1998 but I think it was an upgrade when he became cowboy JR. Still had the enthusiasm but he was more focused and not as concerned about putting himself over brining up useless information about info from past companies or collage athletics because he's such a mark for football. It's definitely that, but it didn't come out nearly as often in the WWF until mid 97 and then it's like Vince pulled him aside and said "JR, you know what would really enhance our product? If you could spend more time talking about where our dubyoo dubyoo eff new generation superstars went to college." Floodgates: opened. |
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,125
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 22, 2022 20:17:35 GMT -5
I like that Colt Cabana said he played college football, not due to interest in pursuing it professionally, but in the hope that JR would bring it up on commentary someday, which he indeed did.
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Post by nakedmideon on Nov 23, 2022 4:17:33 GMT -5
Yeah it was really bad and totally not needed.it didn't add anything it only harmed the product.if im watching Vader v Mankind the last thing i want to hear about is their 'normal' lives.im very surprised Vince let it happen as much as it I'm guessing it did probably play a role in Vince not being a big fan of him early on. After King of the Ring 1993 I don't think he did another PPV for brodcast for over two years (IYH 3 in September 1995 I believe was his next one) and even fired a few times. Yeah you're probably right.what i have noticed in my AE rewatch is a lot of digs from the King at JR on commentary about that stuff."what college did he go to JR" "where did he play ball" clearly someone feeding king those lines and JR getting very salty over it |
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 23, 2022 4:48:51 GMT -5
I'm guessing it did probably play a role in Vince not being a big fan of him early on. After King of the Ring 1993 I don't think he did another PPV for brodcast for over two years (IYH 3 in September 1995 I believe was his next one) and even fired a few times. Yeah you're probably right.what i have noticed in my AE rewatch is a lot of digs from the King at JR on commentary about that stuff."what college did he go to JR" "where did he play ball" clearly someone feeding king those lines and JR getting very salty over it Well in their defense it kind of worked as JR didn't do it as much it seemed during the Attitude Era. Although at the same time I don't think there was as many guys on the WWF roster during that era who had College Football backgrounds. Off the top of my head there was Rock, Ron Simmons, Bradshaw, D'Lo Brown, Prince Albert, Droz (who actually made it to the NFL and played a season for the Denver Broncos). And I think that's really it. |
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,460
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Post by msc on Nov 23, 2022 5:20:09 GMT -5
In the Atittude era I mostly remember him demanding every heel be disqualified, and constantly bringing up the young ages of the stars. "Look at The Rock, he's only 27, he's in the prime of his career!"
He also tried that with Foley. "Mick Foley, he's only 33!" Man, what a hard life he's had then, we all thought.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 23, 2022 6:05:03 GMT -5
In the Atittude era I mostly remember him demanding every heel be disqualified, and constantly bringing up the young ages of the stars. "Look at The Rock, he's only 27, he's in the prime of his career!" He also tried that with Foley. "Mick Foley, he's only 33!" Man, what a hard life he's had then, we all thought. Another trademark of his I remember was him always putting over the hoss wrestlers size by running down their heights and weights. "The Animal known as Batista! 6'5" 290! And he's all man and a mile wide!" |
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,460
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Post by msc on Nov 23, 2022 7:19:45 GMT -5
In the Atittude era I mostly remember him demanding every heel be disqualified, and constantly bringing up the young ages of the stars. "Look at The Rock, he's only 27, he's in the prime of his career!" He also tried that with Foley. "Mick Foley, he's only 33!" Man, what a hard life he's had then, we all thought. Another trademark of his I remember was him always putting over the hoss wrestlers size by running down their heights and weights. "The Animal known as Batista! 6'5" 290! And he's all man and a mile wide!" Ah yes, Mr 8 and 3/8s, Albert. |
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,569
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Post by XIII on Nov 23, 2022 8:37:03 GMT -5
JR has always been on that Bill Watts shit about football players. I can understand if they were to put over a collegiate wrestler because at least that’s wrestling, but the football thing was always kind of lame because every one of those guys tried to make it in the NFL and didn’t for one reason or another. JR never brought that part up though, lol
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Post by jason1980s on Nov 23, 2022 9:26:15 GMT -5
JR has always been on that Bill Watts shit about football players. I can understand if they were to put over a collegiate wrestler because at least that’s wrestling, but the football thing was always kind of lame because every one of those guys tried to make it in the NFL and didn’t for one reason or another. JR never brought that part up though, lol I feel like the football references became even more profound during the Attitude Era. I especially remember Bradshaw's Abeline Christian being mentioned almost every time he was on. JR loved those hosses. He loved guys like Dr. Death and Furnas and Lafon who may have been great wrestlers, probably college level athletes but they lacked the connection to the audience at the time. JR was still doing football references recently and in 2015 or so when Bill Demott was in his scandal JR used a football reference about I think a linebacker coach and that was the way Bill taught. LOL. He also got in a Bill Watts reference citing "that's how my mentor Bill Watts would have done it." I think JR's true love is football rather than wrestling. As much as he loves wrestling, he loves football more I think. He got to live the dream of a commentator in the early 90s and shortly with XFL at least. It did lead to what I would say is the only funny moment of the Oklahoma character. I hate anything related to making fun of JR's disability but Ed Ferrara's commentary on the Pinata on the Pole match talking about Dr. Death's college football and then making up where the Luchas played college football had me crack up. Because it simply was the way JR did commentary mentioning college football that most fans probably didn't care about. |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Nov 23, 2022 11:15:40 GMT -5
I for one like the background information, but I've always been more of a real person over a character type of fan, or at least since I was an adult.
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