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Post by DoubleDare on Nov 27, 2022 17:09:08 GMT -5
The current state of Hollywood does suck. Where is the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, little miss sunshine type of movies? Hollywood not putting money into non big-blockbuster movies like they were 20 years ago is a big problem. Marvel/Superhero movies got stale to me years ago personally. They're still being made. Everything, Everywhere All At Once did really well and was the best movie of the year. The Northman was Robert Eggers biggest budget. Was a good year for horror: Barbarian, The Black Phone, Smile Good point, The Black Phone was really good.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Nov 27, 2022 17:11:55 GMT -5
The current state of Hollywood does suck. Where is the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, little miss sunshine type of movies? Hollywood not putting money into non big-blockbuster movies like they were 20 years ago is a big problem. Marvel/Superhero movies got stale to me years ago personally. They're still being made. Everything, Everywhere All At Once did really well and was the best movie of the year. The Northman was Robert Eggers biggest budget. Was a good year for horror: Barbarian, The Black Phone, Smile But aren't these movies the exceptions that prove the rule? And not exceptions to the rule? Despite their existence, these movies are getting harder for people to make, especially if it's not based on some IP and doesn't have some kind of star to attach to generate finances to get the movie started, and harder to see in theatres. I thought Everything Everywhere All at Once was great, and probably the best movie I saw in theatres so far this year, but at its widest release, which was almost a month after its debut, it had approximately half the theatres that Wakanda Forever did on that movie's opening weekend. At its biggest, A24 is still the David to Disney's Goliath. Comparisons of movies as like-to-like, one movie-to-one movie, obfuscate or flat out ignore the number of theatres and the number of screens that the blockbuster movies of the year open compared to their indie counterparts. And if you live in the elbow or ass-end of nowhere, being able to see in theatres movies like Everything Everywhere All at Once, Barbarian, The Black Phone, and Smile is that much harder, whereas no one will ever have to sweat or work to see the next MCU movie on the big screen at one's nearest chain movie theatre. Nor is Disney an innocent actor when it comes to negotiating profit contracts with theatre corporations, and it's that much worse for any indie cinemas. This factor influences which movies get shown on screen and for how long. Of course mainstream movies and popular tastes eschew to the biggest and most popular comic book movies when that is what is available first, easiest, and the most consistently. Access to the MCU, as well as Star Wars, has been the cudgel Disney has used to get what it wants from theatre corps and indie cinemas in these negotiations.
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Post by Cyno on Nov 27, 2022 17:39:15 GMT -5
The smaller, good films do well in their niche and the blockbusters are blockbusters with the widest possible theater distribution. That's been the case as long as I can remember. Where the industry is different now than it was even ten years ago is that the bigger studios aren't really wanting to support original medium budget films anymore unless they are part of an established franchise. The "middle class" of films is pretty much nonexistent in movie theaters anymore. If they're made at all, they end up on streaming.
But the MCU is a symptom rather than the root cause: the current incarnation of American corporate capitalism. If it wasn't Marvel, it'd be other franchises and other studios, or in Disney's case, using another one of its many cash cows they've acquired or created over the years.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Nov 27, 2022 17:49:41 GMT -5
They're still being made. Everything, Everywhere All At Once did really well and was the best movie of the year. The Northman was Robert Eggers biggest budget. Was a good year for horror: Barbarian, The Black Phone, Smile But aren't these movies the exceptions that prove the rule? And not exceptions to the rule? Despite their existence, these movies are getting harder for people to make, especially if it's not based on some IP and doesn't have some kind of star to attach to generate finances to get the movie started, and harder to see in theatres. I thought Everything Everywhere All at Once was great, and probably the best movie I saw in theatres so far this year, but at its widest release, which was almost a month after its debut, it had approximately half the theatres that Wakanda Forever did on that movie's opening weekend. At its biggest, A24 is still the David to Disney's Goliath. Comparisons of movies as like-to-like, one movie-to-one movie, obfuscate or flat out ignore the number of theatres and the number of screens that the blockbuster movies of the year open compared to their indie counterparts. And if you live in the elbow or ass-end of nowhere, being able to see in theatres movies like Everything Everywhere All at Once, Barbarian, The Black Phone, and Smile is that much harder, whereas no one will ever have to sweat or work to see the next MCU movie on the big screen at one's nearest chain movie theatre. Nor is Disney an innocent actor when it comes to negotiating profit contracts with theatre corporations, and it's that much worse for any indie cinemas. This factor influences which movies get shown on screen and for how long. Of course mainstream movies and popular tastes eschew to the biggest and most popular comic book movies when that is what is available first, easiest, and the most consistently. Access to the MCU, as well as Star Wars, has been the cudgel Disney has used to get what it wants from theatre corps and indie cinemas in these negotiations. Man, remember The Lone Ranger? John Carter? f***ing Disney.
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Post by eJm on Nov 28, 2022 3:25:56 GMT -5
Mentioning stuff like Everything Everywhere, Smile and The Black Phone sort of prove my earlier point of the independents literally only being Blumhouse and A24 at times. And those are where they’re positioned to be screening wise because they have the credibility as studios to make money off of the brand.
Like, it’s good that there are studios but it’s not like Universal distributed The Black Phone because they wanted to take a risk with it. It’s because it has a horror production company backing it who make super cheap movies.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 28, 2022 13:40:42 GMT -5
I think another weird factor here is, it is actually getting harder to make the big massive budget films too. If this year is anything to go by at least. Summer was usually THE season of non-stop big budget blockbusters week after week. Sometimes 2 or 3 would drop the same weekend, and it was damn near impossible to see everything in theatres over the course of the summer season. This year I basically saw all the non-animated summer releases that came out. Not to mention on top of that, Top Gun: Maverick, Jurassic World: Dominion, and Thor: Love and Thunder all came out either in May or very early June and just got to dominate the season. It took until mid-September for all 3 to finally exit all my local cinemas.
I know everyone, rightly, rode Zaslav’s ass for saying he wanted to focus WB’s film projects(especially the DC ones) onto the big guaranteed money maker event films, but if this summer season was anything to go off of, he’s probably just saying the quiet part loud that most of the head execs in Hollywood are thinking. I think the studios would rather release fewer films but have them run in cinemas longer, if possible, because once they leave those screens that’s basically it for their revenue intake. Yes home video and digital on demand are still things but people are very much willing to wait for these films to appear on Paramount+, Disney+, Peacock, and HBO Max these days.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Nov 29, 2022 21:24:28 GMT -5
People pointing to Marvel as the root cause of everything really just seem like they're looking for a scapegoat for broader problems. The movie industry does have a lot of problems right now but there are generally only three to four Marvel movies in a year, and for a long time an industry standard was counterprogramming for giant blockbusters that could still make good money in their own right; top of my head Mamma Mia coming out the same weekend as the Dark Knight and still managing to be the fifth highest grossing movie of 2008 regardless. There is most certainly time and room for other movies to be made and make money if the industry conditions were in place for it otherwise, but they just aren't.
I think the lack of more midline projects is a broader mix of, 1), capitalism, 2), the rise of streaming services making things like romantic comedies that used to be theater staples more generally being suited to being dumped on Netflix, and 3), the movie theater industry's inevitable death that's been happening for years and is the natural result of the current state of things but people are still desperately trying to ignore or uselessly fight against.
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Post by ace on Nov 30, 2022 1:02:23 GMT -5
People pointing to Marvel as the root cause of everything really just seem like they're looking for a scapegoat for broader problems. The movie industry does have a lot of problems right now but there are generally only three to four Marvel movies in a year, and for a long time an industry standard was counterprogramming for giant blockbusters that could still make good money in their own right; top of my head Mamma Mia coming out the same weekend as the Dark Knight and still managing to be the fifth highest grossing movie of 2008 regardless. There is most certainly time and room for other movies to be made and make money if the industry conditions were in place for it otherwise, but they just aren't. I think the lack of more midline projects is a broader mix of, 1), capitalism, 2), the rise of streaming services making things like romantic comedies that used to be theater staples more generally being suited to being dumped on Netflix, and 3), the movie theater industry's inevitable death that's been happening for years and is the natural result of the current state of things but people are still desperately trying to ignore or uselessly fight against. I said years ago that the Marvel movies had basically replaced the standard blockbuster…and that it was a great thing because it forced everyone else to up their game. The lazy, repetitive summer spectacle was taken…and we got next level action movies like Fury Road and John Wick as a result. The problem is no one else has any ideas. That’s not Marvel’s fault. Someone managed to make a Top Gun movie that was critically acclaimed and destroyed box office just this year. It can be done. Just do better and stop whining about not being able to throw Will Smith in a movie about aliens and make money anymore. Here’s a hot counter take…GOOD.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,919
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Nov 30, 2022 1:10:13 GMT -5
He’s not wrong. Affleck being Batman caused all kinds of bitching and moaning. Then it made it like a billion dollars.
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Post by wildojinx on Nov 30, 2022 2:04:22 GMT -5
He’s not wrong. Affleck being Batman caused all kinds of bitching and moaning. Then it made it like a billion dollars. The same thing happened with the 1989 movie.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 30, 2022 8:06:50 GMT -5
Very modest of SLJ to name somebody else, since SLJ is very much a "movie star."
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Post by eJm on Nov 30, 2022 8:15:02 GMT -5
Very modest of SLJ to name somebody else, since SLJ is very much a "movie star." Especially since around the time of the Ultimate Universe in the comics and Nick Fury there being modeled after him, it was seen as a real pie-in-the-sky thing for that to actually happen. Especially in comparison to Robert Downey Jr being casted as Tony Stark who very much was not a star in 2008.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Nov 30, 2022 8:24:11 GMT -5
Admittedly given how 21 Bridges fell flat on its face Boseman actually seems like a decent illustration of the point Tarantino's trying to make.
Though it's also not really anything new. Christopher Reeve is widely beloved decades later for his Superman but no one cared about Switching Channels.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 30, 2022 9:33:20 GMT -5
To Simu point, being a “Marvel star” makes you a household name overnight and instant millionaire. Whether that makes you a household name or not for me would be irrelevant. Doors are opened because you are more visible
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Post by Clutchhausen on Nov 30, 2022 9:36:23 GMT -5
I mean.........
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Post by eJm on Nov 30, 2022 9:55:01 GMT -5
To Simu point, being a “Marvel star” makes you a household name overnight and instant millionaire. Whether that makes you a household name or not for me would be irrelevant. Doors are opened because you are more visible It’s sort of up there with winning an Oscar helps open doors in that regard, regardless if that makes you a household name or not. Like, there wasn’t a chance Marvel would have casted Brie Larson as Captain Marvel if they weren’t able to brag about having a Best Actress winner being in their movie as an example.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,960
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Post by salz4life on Nov 30, 2022 10:21:58 GMT -5
To Simu point, being a “Marvel star” makes you a household name overnight and instant millionaire. Whether that makes you a household name or not for me would be irrelevant. Doors are opened because you are more visible It’s sort of up there with winning an Oscar helps open doors in that regard, regardless if that makes you a household name or not. Like, there wasn’t a chance Marvel would have casted Brie Larson as Captain Marvel if they weren’t able to brag about having a Best Actress winner being in their movie as an example. Weren't there rumors of Ronda Rousey possibly being up for the role early on or am I thinking of something else?
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,049
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Nov 30, 2022 10:29:02 GMT -5
To Simu point, being a “Marvel star” makes you a household name overnight and instant millionaire. Whether that makes you a household name or not for me would be irrelevant. Doors are opened because you are more visible More visible, and have the freedom to do what you want the rest of the time. You have multiple projects giving you millions of dollars for the next few years, you can make that little niche indie project you've had your eye on but would never get the money.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Nov 30, 2022 10:30:30 GMT -5
He’s not wrong. Affleck being Batman caused all kinds of bitching and moaning. Then it made it like a billion dollars. No movie with Affleck as Batman made a billion. Batman v Superman 843 mil worldwide. Justice League 657 mil worldwide.
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Post by eJm on Nov 30, 2022 10:33:54 GMT -5
It’s sort of up there with winning an Oscar helps open doors in that regard, regardless if that makes you a household name or not. Like, there wasn’t a chance Marvel would have casted Brie Larson as Captain Marvel if they weren’t able to brag about having a Best Actress winner being in their movie as an example. Weren't there rumors of Ronda Rousey possibly being up for the role early on or am I thinking of something else? I think you might have been thinking of another role but for the life of me, I can’t remember what role it was for.
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