Didn't Benoit look like a coward going to Raw in 2004?

[Jindrak Mark]

He had been feuding with Lesnar in late 2003 and made him tap at Survivor Series. Then they had a title match on TV a few weeks later which Brock won after using a chair after a ref bump. It was also Benoit's second match of the night after beating Cena earlier in the show to earn the show so it wasn't a decisive win at all with Brock having to cheat to beat an exhausted guy. Then the next week Heyman says Benoit will never get another shot at Brock's WWE title. Benoit vows to win the Rumble as it's the only way he can earn the shot since Heyman will never willingly give him one. Heyman makes Benoit jump through hoops for weeks just to qualify for the Rumble and then when he does he makes him start from number one. Benoit obviously goes the distance and wins the Rumble and can now get revenge on Brock/Heyman...except he shows up on Raw the next night and announces that he's challenging HHH for the Raw title.

I understand the non-kayfabe reason is that they wanted to do Brock/Goldberg at Wrestlemania but did they address in storyline why Benoit didn't choose to face Brock? Because it really made it seem like he was ducking him. Brock obviously lost the title before Wrestlemania to Eddie but Benoit made his choice weeks before that when Brock was still champion.

[Mozenrath]

It made sense in that, with their "brand rivalry" stuff that it was supposed to be egg on Heyman's face that Benoit left the brand. Of course, saying that, just about the only time the brand rivalry has made all that much sense was Vince vs Flair, and it was a somewhat unsatisfying conclusion. I don't think people complained all that much at the time since most of them were just happy he was going to be winning a world title, and it'd be off of the resented Triple H.

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

The major non-kayfabe reason was that HHH wanted to work against a top-tier worker other than HBK, Goldberg/Lesnar only came about after they knew Benoit was going to Raw IIRC.

And it kind of does, but also the story was that Benoit knew he wasn't going to get a fair chance as long as Heyman was in charge so why would he waste his opportunity? There's also the whole WCW connection due to the WHC

[Mid-Carder]

I wish it had been Eddie who got the big moment at Mania. And I thought that then, not just since what happened. Benoit could have retained a title he'd won earlier (like Eddie did) and they still could have done that ending, but Eddie had such a great story and connection with fans. It always felt like a bigger moment to me.

[Feyrhausen]

Jan 19, 2023 15:26:23 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

The major non-kayfabe reason was that HHH wanted to work against a top-tier worker other than HBK, Goldberg/Lesnar only came about after they knew Benoit was going to Raw IIRC.

And it kind of does, but also the story was that Benoit knew he wasn't going to get a fair chance as long as Heyman was in charge so why would he waste his opportunity? There's also the whole WCW connection due to the WHC

They had H and Evolution insult Benoit at the Rumble to set up why Benoit would switch to go after H instead of Brock.

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

Jan 19, 2023 15:29:19 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

I wish it had been Eddie who got the big moment at Mania. And I thought that then, not just since what happened. Benoit could have retained a title he'd won earlier (like Eddie did) and they still could have done that ending, but Eddie had such a great story and connection with fans. It always felt like a bigger moment to me.

Eddie heated up so quickly in 03 and they didn't feel they could trust him/he didn't want to be the champ due to the extra stress and workload.

[ace]

I hate to think of him being remembered that way

[4real]

I didn’t understand Benoit going for the World Title (a title he had already held sort of) rather than the title he had never held (WWE Title) at the time.

I think it worked out fine because it was still a huge moment when he won and obviously we got that classic moment with Eddie at the end. The fact that within 4 Wrestlemania’s they would both be dead depresses me though.

[Mid-Carder]

Jan 19, 2023 19:30:17 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

Jan 19, 2023 15:29:19 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

I wish it had been Eddie who got the big moment at Mania. And I thought that then, not just since what happened. Benoit could have retained a title he'd won earlier (like Eddie did) and they still could have done that ending, but Eddie had such a great story and connection with fans. It always felt like a bigger moment to me.

Eddie heated up so quickly in 03 and they didn't feel they could trust him/he didn't want to be the champ due to the extra stress and workload.

But he was already champion by then. I'm saying I wish they'd swapped who won at Mania. Eddie was a bigger star and I think justified the bigger stage more than Benoit

[Mozenrath]

Jan 20, 2023 4:14:15 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

Jan 19, 2023 19:30:17 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

Eddie heated up so quickly in 03 and they didn't feel they could trust him/he didn't want to be the champ due to the extra stress and workload.

But he was already champion by then. I'm saying I wish they'd swapped who won at Mania. Eddie was a bigger star and I think justified the bigger stage more than Benoit

I love Eddie, but I honestly don't know that I agree with that, that he was the bigger star at the time. He was definitely the one who benefited more from winning the top title of his brand, but Benoit was someone who'd been in and out of the main event scene since 2000. Eddie on the other hand was having to make up for lost time from his firing and had not really been given the same kinds of opportunities Benoit had prior. Like, Benoit had feuded with Rock, Austin, Jericho obviously, and Kurt Angle.

Eddie at least was spared the bullshit of HBK's insertion into the title match.

[ChitownKnight]

Jan 20, 2023 4:25:47 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Jan 20, 2023 4:14:15 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

But he was already champion by then. I'm saying I wish they'd swapped who won at Mania. Eddie was a bigger star and I think justified the bigger stage more than Benoit

I love Eddie, but I honestly don't know that I agree with that, that he was the bigger star at the time. He was definitely the one who benefited more from winning the top title of his brand, but Benoit was someone who'd been in and out of the main event scene since 2000. Eddie on the other hand was having to make up for lost time from his firing and had not really been given the same kinds of opportunities Benoit had prior. Like, Benoit had feuded with Rock, Austin, Jericho obviously, and Kurt Angle.

Eddie at least was spared the bullshit of HBK's insertion into the title match.

Benoit was the bigger star before their title reigns and Eddie was the bigger star after. After their runs, Benoit was pretty much and afterthought while Eddie was featured in some major programs

[ChitownKnight]

Jan 20, 2023 4:25:47 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Jan 20, 2023 4:14:15 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

But he was already champion by then. I'm saying I wish they'd swapped who won at Mania. Eddie was a bigger star and I think justified the bigger stage more than Benoit

I love Eddie, but I honestly don't know that I agree with that, that he was the bigger star at the time. He was definitely the one who benefited more from winning the top title of his brand, but Benoit was someone who'd been in and out of the main event scene since 2000. Eddie on the other hand was having to make up for lost time from his firing and had not really been given the same kinds of opportunities Benoit had prior. Like, Benoit had feuded with Rock, Austin, Jericho obviously, and Kurt Angle.

Eddie at least was spared the bullshit of HBK's insertion into the title match.

Benoit was the bigger star before their title reigns and Eddie was the bigger star after. After their runs, Benoit was pretty much and afterthought while Eddie was featured in some major programs

[4real]

Benoit was the bigger star than Eddie definitely at the time. He was pushed almost immediately upon entering WWE in the height of the Attitude era and ‘won’ the title twice in 2000 (before being overturned). His whole ark for four years was not being able to win the big one.

Eddie didn’t really get that push upon coming in (messing up his arm immediately might have had something to do with that) and arguably wasn’t that over until the Los Guerrero’s run. I agree that he was probably an all round better talent after their title runs though especially in 2005 when it looked like Eddie might get that second world title after an excellent heel run against Rey Mysterio.

Eddie winning a World Title wasn’t as built up as Benoit winning one was is what I’m trying to get at.

[Magnus the Magnificent]

Going by PPV, I'd argue that WWE saw Benoit as a bigger star than Eddie both winning and after their title wins, too.

Win:
Benoit - Beat two guys, Shawn Michaels and HHH, at Wrestlemania, by submitting HHH at the height of his 'reign of terror'.
Eddie - Won title from Brock Lesnar at No Way Out after Goldberg interference, which did fit his lieing-cheat-steal gimmick, but I thought it made him look weak.

After:
Benoit - Wins rematch at Backlash by submitting Michaels (in Canada with the Sharpshooter, no less!) and beats HHH again at Vengeance, one-on-one this time (f***ing Eugene with a chairshot is involved).
Eddie - DQ'd against JBL at Judgement Day after much shenanigans, ref-bump included. Loses title to JBL at Great American Bash (Trash?) by being a kayfabe moron.

[Renslayer]

Jan 19, 2023 15:29:19 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

I wish it had been Eddie who got the big moment at Mania. And I thought that then, not just since what happened. Benoit could have retained a title he'd won earlier (like Eddie did) and they still could have done that ending, but Eddie had such a great story and connection with fans. It always felt like a bigger moment to me.

I understand this, but I feel like doing it in the cow palace made it even more special. Don't think the mania crowd could've matched the sheer emotion from that night

[BorneAgain]

In fairness to Benoit's image, its not like it was a burial; after all he hadn't been outright demoted from the Four Horsemen to Raw yet so his status was still good.

[Jindrak Mark]

Jan 20, 2023 14:02:15 GMT -5 Magnus the Magnificent said:

Going by PPV, I'd argue that WWE saw Benoit as a bigger star than Eddie both winning and after their title wins, too.

Win:
Benoit - Beat two guys, Shawn Michaels and HHH, at Wrestlemania, by submitting HHH at the height of his 'reign of terror'.
Eddie - Won title from Brock Lesnar at No Way Out after Goldberg interference, which did fit his lieing-cheat-steal gimmick, but I thought it made him look weak.

After:
Benoit - Wins rematch at Backlash by submitting Michaels (in Canada with the Sharpshooter, no less!) and beats HHH again at Vengeance, one-on-one this time (f***ing Eugene with a chairshot is involved).
Eddie - DQ'd against JBL at Judgement Day after much shenanigans, ref-bump included. Loses title to JBL at Great American Bash (Trash?) by being a kayfabe moron.

Benoit also main evented all of the big 4 PPVs in 2004. You'll be hard pressed to find many names who've ever done that in a calendar year. I can only come up with Warrior in 90, Yoko in 93, Rock in 01, Benoit in 04 and Cena in 11. The Rumble PPV kind of skews it though because a lot of the time your biggest star won't be in the main event/Rumble match because they'll already be world champion.

Once you get into 2005 though and the aftermath of their title reigns I think Eddie definitely felt like the bigger star by the time of his death. His feuds with Rey and Batista felt bigger than the stuff Benoit was doing that year.

[LiamMcDuggle]

Jan 19, 2023 15:29:19 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

I wish it had been Eddie who got the big moment at Mania. And I thought that then, not just since what happened. Benoit could have retained a title he'd won earlier (like Eddie did) and they still could have done that ending, but Eddie had such a great story and connection with fans. It always felt like a bigger moment to me.

In retrospect, Benoit and Eddie probably would have been better served to swap places, but Smackdown had better TV distribution in Mexico, so it made more sense to them to market that show around Eddie

Eddie was a better character and would have worked really well on RAW