champchumpchange
Don Corleone
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Posts: 1,682
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Post by champchumpchange on Feb 23, 2023 6:22:42 GMT -5
The TBS championship is as important as the FTW strap at this point.
It’s meaningless.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 23, 2023 6:29:55 GMT -5
The TBS championship is as important as the FTW strap at this point. It’s meaningless. It's not meaningless imo, for a belt to be meaningless it has to simply be a prop that's never used. It's been defended a lot, been all over TV, it's just been held by one woman in a Goldberg streak yeah, so you beat her, you get the belt, and the honor of beating that streak. That will be a big deal for whoever does it, you get two big accolades. When that's broken, the belt will likely be more like the TNT title but for girls. Where the FTW belt is more a prize bestowed by Taz, it's a rouge championship and it's always been that way, and is defended very seldom as a whole. However, someone who may take that belt if it's defended, would also be the first to beat HOOK, which is another big deal to whoever might do it. It's just a matter of when Jade drops it is where we're at right now.
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Post by SneakMan on Feb 23, 2023 7:10:04 GMT -5
It's killed whatever intrigue the TBS Title had when it was introduced, with the belt becoming an almost literal prop. The reign has done nothing for Jade as either a worker or in popularity. In-ring she was improving pretty much every week but she plateaued a while ago - some of the holes in her game (her selling, mostly) are the exact same as they were a year ago. And it's not like this "epic" run has made her a star, either; Jade is over but not more so than many of the upper card women.
So yeah, worst title reign in the company's history by a fairly decent margin. Nowhere near the worst in wrestling history (not in an industry where Vince Russo was world champion) but overlong, incredibly repetitive, and not beneficial to either Jade or the rest of the roster.
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Post by canceled4truth on Feb 23, 2023 7:38:08 GMT -5
I mean, that sucked, but it also lasted like 3 weeks, as opposed to well over a year of Jade
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 23, 2023 7:40:37 GMT -5
In all of wrestling? Sure. I don’t think the belt means much today, but they can fix that.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 23, 2023 7:47:58 GMT -5
I think that if there was an obvious endgame to it or something that lasted more than three weeks it would be okay but this seems like a run of nothingness and it hurts things.
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Post by canceled4truth on Feb 23, 2023 7:48:51 GMT -5
Jade's probably the most underwhelming title run active right now across the two major US promotions — I don't watch NWA, but I believe people when they tell me Tyrus is worse, because it's f***ing Tyrus. But in wrestling history? Jade's not even close to the worst. I feel like you have to be actively turning people away from the product to be in that category (like Tyrus), and no one's giving up on AEW just because of how the women's midcard belt is booked
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Post by eJm on Feb 23, 2023 7:56:13 GMT -5
I think the issue showcases a flaw in that TK's got to get the plan he puts in place down by hook or by crook unless a tragic circumstance changes it. In some cases, it's respectable, but for stuff like Jade and the Death Triangle/HOB feud, it's glaring.
Like, I don't think it'd harm her stock if Athena or Red Velvet or someone of that nature scored the upset and you moved her onto, say, the civil war brewing around the women's title or something and gave the TBS title time to rekindle itself. Right now, considering what was going on before she got injured, he's waiting for Statlander but we don't know how close she is to coming back so there needs to be a pivot point here. Hell, have Skye Blue score a rollup upset. Anything at this point.
Jade is a draw. She's a face of the franchise for WMD and is promoted everywhere. The title is almost not needed for her to be where she is.
We just had a whole discussion about whether pivoting to Sami winning the belt would make sense business wise heading towards a Roman/Cody match at 'Mania and it feels like HHH/Vince/Whoever out of the two's in charge of creative should look to what happens if a champ gets too long in the tooth without a single challenger to potentially win.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 23, 2023 8:04:55 GMT -5
I think the issue showcases a flaw in that TK's got to get the plan he puts in place down by hook or by crook unless a tragic circumstance changes it. In some cases, it's respectable, but for stuff like Jade and the Death Triangle/HOB feud, it's glaring. Like, I don't think it'd harm her stock if Athena or Red Velvet or someone of that nature scored the upset and you moved her onto, say, the civil war brewing around the women's title or something and gave the TBS title time to rekindle itself. Right now, considering what was going on before she got injured, he's waiting for Statlander but we don't know how close she is to coming back so there needs to be a pivot point here. Hell, have Skye Blue score a rollup upset. Anything at this point. Jade is a draw. She's a face of the franchise for WMD and is promoted everywhere. The title is almost not needed for her to be where she is. We just had a whole discussion about whether pivoting to Sami winning the belt would make sense business wise heading towards a Roman/Cody match at 'Mania and it feels like HHH/Vince/Whoever out of the two's in charge of creative should look to what happens if a champ gets too long in the tooth without a single challenger to potentially win. Yeah. We’re at the point where her just winning all the time is actively hurting her, the division and the belt. She should lose it ASAP.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Feb 23, 2023 8:23:33 GMT -5
Tyrus? Jinder? Nikki ASH? Charlotte's constant infinite title reign loop? Jack Swagger? David Arquette? A lot of 2010's title reigns in WWE, a lot of US, IC, and Divas title runs that amounted to jack shit? A lot of LOLTNA title runs? Jade's title reign's gone on too long but can we not act like she is the absolute worst thing ever? I absolutely disagree that nothing about her title run has been entertaining at all. She's had some fine matches like with Skye, Willow and Anna Jay, fine moments with promos, she got "Cut the shit!" over, and her ring attire has always been a hit. There's been FAR worse... just far worse title reigns in the history of time Jade's also over with most live crowds, which if it was the worst title reign ever I'd expect her to be getting well... complete apathy and Conway pops Tyrus: He hasn't really done anything good or bad with his title reign at this point. I will concede he actually has a chance of being worse than Jade. At least he hasn't utterly wrecked the credibility of hot signings like Jade. Jinder: Although the match quality was shit, at the very least it ended with one of the most satisfying title changes I can remember when AJ Styles beat him. Again if Jade's title reign has a satisfying ending I'll reconsider, but I doubt they can make it worth the year plus of awful television she has brought. Nikki ASH: It was a shitty title reign, and it made her look like a schmuck but it was short. Charlotte: Always has at least one good match per title reign. Also as bad as her monopoly of the title has been at least it's been punctuated by her actually putting people over from time to time. Jack Swagger: It was short and relatively inoffensive. It wasn't great but it's not something that dragged the quality of the show down. David Arquette: Bad as the booking of it was, some real life good came out of it. WWE 2010s midcard title runs: Like you said these didn't amount to anything whatsoever particularly good or bad. Nobody's credibility was actively harmed by them and they weren't the worst part of the show every time they were on screen. LOLTNA Runs: I'm not exactly sure which ones you're referring to. Magnus is the only one where you might have a point, but again his was short and didn't really bury anybody but him. On the other hand Jade's title run has buried multiple talents including killing any and all hype Athena had for her signing, to such a degree they had to pull her from television for two months and turn her heel just to blow the stink of that match off of her. Most of her matches are awkward and botchy, she cuts the same promo every time, gets interrupted by a face who she inevitably beats with little difficulty, and then goes back to cutting the same promo she did the last week, rinse and repeat. And David Arquette got reactions as world champion in WCW. It's not exactly the hallmark of not being bad. Frankly it's not even her fault. AEW and Tony Khan just overpushed her to the point where all of her limitations have been severely exposed. She hasn't been given any time to develop, and it's to the point now where even after this title run ends I think most people are going to be sick of her for long periods to come. She has nowhere left to go from here.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Feb 23, 2023 8:34:28 GMT -5
I just think it's odd how the TBS title is usually defended on TNT (and the TNT title usually gets defended on TBS)
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clifford
King Koopa
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Post by clifford on Feb 23, 2023 8:50:16 GMT -5
It's got to the point where her biggest storyline, the undefeated streak, is what's actually holding her back the most, cause no one is buying her losing at this point until Statlander comes back, and everyone she faces looks like a doofus.
Add in the fact that AEW have never really decided what direction to go with with Jade- first she had Mark Sterling, then Stokely, then the baddies, now a different version of the baddies- and its all been one big mess since like, I wanna say Revolution last year?
They are completely booking her into a corner with this undefeated streak.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Feb 23, 2023 9:40:25 GMT -5
I mean, that sucked, but it also lasted like 3 weeks, as opposed to well over a year of Jade Yeah, if short reigns count in the worst reigns discussion, Mick Foley is the worst WWF/E Champion of all time. A true stinker would be Shane Douglas’ last ECW title reign, which was sort of similar to Jade’s: not many decent matches (due to injury in The Franchise’s case) and lengthened due to a desired result (Taz dethroning Douglas) instead of calling an audible based on crowd reactions (Al Snow was white-hot when he challenged for the belt).
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,144
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Feb 23, 2023 9:47:40 GMT -5
At this point I won't believe the TBS title is meaningful until it actually changes hands. I just assume it's a part of her entrance attire right now. Say what you want about the FTW title but it's at least changed hands. There have been plenty of times the title could have changed hands and it made sense.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Feb 23, 2023 9:53:54 GMT -5
I think the issue showcases a flaw in that TK's got to get the plan he puts in place down by hook or by crook unless a tragic circumstance changes it. In some cases, it's respectable, but for stuff like Jade and the Death Triangle/HOB feud, it's glaring. Like, I don't think it'd harm her stock if Athena or Red Velvet or someone of that nature scored the upset and you moved her onto, say, the civil war brewing around the women's title or something and gave the TBS title time to rekindle itself. Right now, considering what was going on before she got injured, he's waiting for Statlander but we don't know how close she is to coming back so there needs to be a pivot point here. Hell, have Skye Blue score a rollup upset. Anything at this point. Jade is a draw. She's a face of the franchise for WMD and is promoted everywhere. The title is almost not needed for her to be where she is. We just had a whole discussion about whether pivoting to Sami winning the belt would make sense business wise heading towards a Roman/Cody match at 'Mania and it feels like HHH/Vince/Whoever out of the two's in charge of creative should look to what happens if a champ gets too long in the tooth without a single challenger to potentially win. Yep, pretty sure it was all but confirmed the plan was for Statlander to beat Jade at Grand Slam. But some other stuff since that got dropped makes me believe that there were some other plans that just sort of fell through (I'm still convinced the Bow Wow stuff was going to lead to Mercedes and it fell through) And yeah Jade is a draw, WBD loves her and there are rumors she's one of the talent WBD is working with to get involved in other projects.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 23, 2023 9:55:43 GMT -5
It's in a similar spot to the Roman run (please read the rest - I know it's a much worse version of that on many levels) in that it's gone on so long that you start to feel the need that it has to end in a way that makes someone you really want to push and I get that. And it feels like either they know that person and are waiting (likely Kris after she comes back from injury) or they don't know who it is and are just waiting until they figure it out. And if it's the former, I somewhat get it although it's a long wait for something and it's going to diminish the longer we wait. And if it's the latter, you gotta just pick someone and strap a rocket to them. You may not have a super hot face on the women's side to take it if Kris is out for a while but you need to just pick Willow or Billie Starks and make them in one night. And Jade will be better off for it eventually when her booking has more flexibility and she can move on to the Shida/Britt/Jamie side of the division.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 23, 2023 11:32:30 GMT -5
It's in a similar spot to the Roman run (please read the rest - I know it's a much worse version of that on many levels) in that it's gone on so long that you start to feel the need that it has to end in a way that makes someone you really want to push and I get that. And it feels like either they know that person and are waiting (likely Kris after she comes back from injury) or they don't know who it is and are just waiting until they figure it out. And if it's the former, I somewhat get it although it's a long wait for something and it's going to diminish the longer we wait. And if it's the latter, you gotta just pick someone and strap a rocket to them. You may not have a super hot face on the women's side to take it if Kris is out for a while but you need to just pick Willow or Billie Starks and make them in one night. And Jade will be better off for it eventually when her booking has more flexibility and she can move on to the Shida/Britt/Jamie side of the division. And honestly, I’m not sure just waiting to put it on Kris, who is likely to have to work off a ton of ring rust and already may be on borrowed time with her knees, is the best move either. Willow should just win the thing.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Feb 23, 2023 12:29:12 GMT -5
As far as total history: it's definitely better than a lot of WWF Light Heavyweight Championship runs. With that said, the belt is feeling very similar to that one, in that it's just kind of thrown on a suitable champion (I know comparing Jade to Jerry Lynn or Dean Malenko sounds daft, but - in terms of being a fit for the championship's concept, I think there's room for comparison) and then left on that wrestler indefinitely without any event or incident.
Maybe the most frustrating part about the apparent wait for Statlander is that Khan really hasn't left a lot of room for anyone else to fit. If Athena turning heel and winning the ROH title was the plan to begin with, then not giving her the TBS title makes sense in retrospect (I don't think I could have foreseen Athena becoming one of the best acts in AEW with a title, so room for forgiveness on that one); if Willow was indeed not signed as of her last challenge, then that decision also makes sense, although I still question doing that match to begin with in those circumstances (because it's now made Willow feel non-viable for YET ANOTHER MATCH and it would taint her win if she got it this time); Red Velvet was ice cold coming back from injury and absolutely killed by the incoherence of the Baddies drama angle. And with all of that out of the way, who is even left?
(It's almost like every single problem with women's booking in AEW keeps coming back to lack of time and character development.)
The Baddies drama angle is worth mentioning here, actually: it was such a complete and total wreck from a coherence and logic standpoint that I swear the only reason it doesn't get hated on more is because "Jade wins" draped the nonsensical alliance shifts and inconsistent character dynamics in such a sea of apathy that nobody even got bothered by it much.
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Feb 23, 2023 12:40:02 GMT -5
It's in a similar spot to the Roman run (please read the rest - I know it's a much worse version of that on many levels) in that it's gone on so long that you start to feel the need that it has to end in a way that makes someone you really want to push and I get that. And it feels like either they know that person and are waiting (likely Kris after she comes back from injury) or they don't know who it is and are just waiting until they figure it out. And if it's the former, I somewhat get it although it's a long wait for something and it's going to diminish the longer we wait. And if it's the latter, you gotta just pick someone and strap a rocket to them. You may not have a super hot face on the women's side to take it if Kris is out for a while but you need to just pick Willow or Billie Starks and make them in one night. And Jade will be better off for it eventually when her booking has more flexibility and she can move on to the Shida/Britt/Jamie side of the division. And honestly, I’m not sure just waiting to put it on Kris, who is likely to have to work off a ton of ring rust and already may be on borrowed time with her knees, is the best move either. Willow should just win the thing. That's what I think would be best. Statlander can win the AEW Women's World title instead if she's able to stay healthy for a few months.
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Post by SneakMan on Feb 23, 2023 12:44:34 GMT -5
It's in a similar spot to the Roman run (please read the rest - I know it's a much worse version of that on many levels) in that it's gone on so long that you start to feel the need that it has to end in a way that makes someone you really want to push and I get that. And it feels like either they know that person and are waiting (likely Kris after she comes back from injury) or they don't know who it is and are just waiting until they figure it out. And if it's the former, I somewhat get it although it's a long wait for something and it's going to diminish the longer we wait. And if it's the latter, you gotta just pick someone and strap a rocket to them. You may not have a super hot face on the women's side to take it if Kris is out for a while but you need to just pick Willow or Billie Starks and make them in one night. And Jade will be better off for it eventually when her booking has more flexibility and she can move on to the Shida/Britt/Jamie side of the division. Nah you’re absolutely right - Jade is Femme Heel Roman. Repetitive matches and promos that all basically follow the same beats and benefit no one. Only difference is Roman’s stuff finally has some intrigue since the end is finally (hopefully) in sight, while Jade’s reign is seemingly endless since nobody knows when Stat is getting back.
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