WWF's struggles in the early 90's.

[ToyfareMark]

While its well known that the WWF, and wrestling as a whole were on a major downturn in the early 90's, I think there's another factor in it that many people don't talk about. The NFL. The WWF's syndicated shows at the time were on a ton of FOX affiliates, and many of them showed the WWF's shows on Sunday mornings around 11 AM or noon. Once FOX got the rights to the NFL in 94 many of those FOX stations moved wrestling to some really undesirable air times. That could not have helped a struggling WWF in any way. Thoughts?

[Deleted]

Aside from the steroid scandals, I’ve always been surprised that WWF wws having trouble in that era.

If you were to put together a dream roster from the golden age of wrestling, you would basically end up with WWF’s roster from some time between 1990 and 1992.

[CeilingFan]

Too much Hulk Hogan and not enough building new stars.

[The Barber]

Mar 22, 2023 7:42:50 GMT -5 @wvguitar said:

Aside from the steroid scandals, I’ve always been surprised that WWF wws having trouble in that era.

If you were to put together a dream roster from the golden age of wrestling, you would basically end up with WWF’s roster from some time between 1990 and 1992.

I was talking to someone online about this and I believe the problem was the fact that the WWF was still stuck in the past. The guy mentioned that both Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels looked like heavy metal rockers in an 80s music video and I agree with him. The Ultimate Warrior even looked like a comic book character from ten years prior. But it could also be that anything pop culture from a generation will most likely be seen as old hat in the next generation.

[thecrusherwi]

I definitely think there is some merit to that idea. I was a kid in the mid 90s, but I remember the weekend WWF shows being very hard to pin down (we weren't a TV guide family). You'd find Superstars one week and then you'd tune in at the same time the following week and it would be an infomercial. I think many markets dropped Wrestling Challenge all together in 1994.

With that being said though - WCW was really taking off with Hogan and the ex-WWF guys and Raw was putting more star vs star matches on free TV as I'd ever seen in my young life. Both were adding new PPVs. I figured wrestling was on the upswing. My dad was a wrestling fan so we followed it like a sport. I didn't matter what the ratings were or who was in what promotion or who was missing. Like baseball fans sort of ignoring the "Is baseball dying?" speculation, we just didn't care about that stuff. If this match is for the Intercontinental Title, it must be an important match.

[Deleted]

Mar 22, 2023 8:18:58 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

I definitely think there is some merit to that idea. I was a kid in the mid 90s, but I remember the weekend WWF shows being very hard to pin down (we weren't a TV guide family). You'd find Superstars one week and then you'd tune in at the same time the following week and it would be an infomercial. I think many markets dropped Wrestling Challenge all together in 1994.

This was definitely my case as a kid, also. Superstars moved around so much, I had no clue when it was even on. Wrestling Challenge had an awful time slot, it was on around midnight on Fridays or Saturdays.

[fg]

WNYW in NY sometimes aired Challenge Sundays at 10:30a after Fox got the rights to NFL. When Fox got the rights to MLB,that is when WNYW really treated Superstars as an afterthought because they sometimes moved the show from its cushy 12p slot to 4p which meant it was vulnerable to being preempted due to games going to overtime. They never backlogged it like they would do if it was a more important show.

[tafkaga]

Mar 22, 2023 7:42:50 GMT -5 @wvguitar said:

Aside from the steroid scandals, I’ve always been surprised that WWF wws having trouble in that era.

If you were to put together a dream roster from the golden age of wrestling, you would basically end up with WWF’s roster from some time between 1990 and 1992.

Yeah, everything seemed normal until '93 when suddenly it seemed like half the roster disappeared and we had skinny Hogan, Macho Man on commentary, and Bret Hart is suddenly the greatest WWF Champion of alllllll tiiiiiime.

[wildojinx]

Dont forget that around this time the Super Nes and Genesis (debuted in 1989, but didnt become huge until 91 and Sonic) were getting big, and most of the games went beyond the simplicity of older games. Wouldnt be surprised if most of the fanbase were spending their time trying to beat Super Mario World or Link to the Past over watching RAW or Superstars. From what I recall, the WWF video games were still popular, even among lapsed fans and non-fans, but that may have been dovetailing the fighting game craze (WWF even made Mortal Kombat clones with Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game and In Your House).

[Milkman Norm]

Several factors. Nielsen changed that way it categorized syndicated TV, so WWF could no longer claim to be #1 across several demos. The rise of infomercial provided programing & money to affiliate.

The taping schedule became an issue to as guys were being fired or suspended in the middle of taping cycles without a plausible way to write them out.

Finally I think the creative & perceived critical fallout from the steroid trial hurt them. I've been rewatching 1994 Superstars/Raws/PPVs and it's clear that after SummerSlam things just went out the rails. It's like all of the angles they would have been working on in June of that year to start the post summer build towards the Rumble didn't happen. Instead there's really low rent stuff, like "come to a show to see a 30 foot inflatable Undertaker", or "come participate in a Paul Bearer sound alike contest". And when one of the major angles is Babyface Doink vs Announcer Jerry Lawler you know things are gonna be pretty sucky.

[salz4life]

Mar 22, 2023 7:42:50 GMT -5 @wvguitar said:

Aside from the steroid scandals, I’ve always been surprised that WWF wws having trouble in that era.

If you were to put together a dream roster from the golden age of wrestling, you would basically end up with WWF’s roster from some time between 1990 and 1992.

I always though the "down period" was more 93-96 (early to mid 96, maybe). Were they really down in 90-92 as well?

[johnnyk9]

1993 was when you really see a lot of decline and suddenly tv tapings are happening in smaller venues like amphitheaters, universities and high school gyms, and big ball rooms, instead of the coliseums and arenas they were usual taped in. Hogan’s 93 run was done all wrong imo especially not having him make a single live tv appearance besides pretaped promos after WM 9 and before KOTR. That’s something that’s always puzzled me I understand save the championship matches for ppvs but not one podium or in ring interview? And Beefcake could’ve worked a few squashes. He had so many tag teams but had Money Inc. hold the titles too long. Also HBK had the IC title to long. If you look at thehistoryofwwe.com they did a lot of house shows that year too. So the wrestlers worked their butts off to earn their pay. Such a weird transition year indeed

[Jindrak Mark]

Mar 22, 2023 11:18:16 GMT -5 salz4life said:

Mar 22, 2023 7:42:50 GMT -5 @wvguitar said:

Aside from the steroid scandals, I’ve always been surprised that WWF wws having trouble in that era.

If you were to put together a dream roster from the golden age of wrestling, you would basically end up with WWF’s roster from some time between 1990 and 1992.

I always though the "down period" was more 93-96 (early to mid 96, maybe). Were they really down in 90-92 as well?

If we're talking WWF specifically their down period definitely lasted well into 1997.

They booked the Alamodome for the Royal Rumble and had to give away half of the tickets because they couldn't sell enough. Wrestlemania 13 got the worst PPV buyrate of any Mania. WCW was completely smashing them in the ratings compared to 95-96 when it was still pretty close at times. And business was so bad that Vince decided to let one of his top guys leave because he couldn't afford to pay him what he'd agreed.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

I thought the product was still great in 90-92 in that they still felt big time and as mentioned the roster at least until post Mania VIII was stacked. Other then I guess Sting every big name during that period was in their employee during that stretch. Why business started to decline I don't know. I guess a lot of the problem was Hogan was getting stale and they didn't have anyone else who could fill that spot and be The Guy and do even half as well. Warrior was too one dimensional, Sid was too unreliable, Bret lacked the larger then life appeal, Luger wasn't likeable enough. I've always believed you need a super strong overall talent as your #1 face to do great business and they just didn't have it at that time.

[salz4life]

Mar 22, 2023 13:53:37 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

Mar 22, 2023 11:18:16 GMT -5 salz4life said:

I always though the "down period" was more 93-96 (early to mid 96, maybe). Were they really down in 90-92 as well?

If we're talking WWF specifically their down period definitely lasted well into 1997.

They booked the Alamodome for the Royal Rumble and had to give away half of the tickets because they couldn't sell enough. Wrestlemania 13 got the worst PPV buyrate of any Mania. WCW was completely smashing them in the ratings compared to 95-96 when it was still pretty close at times. And business was so bad that Vince decided to let one of his top guys leave because he couldn't afford to pay him what he'd agreed.

You're right.... It really wasn't until late '97 to '98 that things started turning around (even though I think most of '97 was really good in WWF).

[ToyfareMark]

Mar 22, 2023 13:53:37 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

Mar 22, 2023 11:18:16 GMT -5 salz4life said:

I always though the "down period" was more 93-96 (early to mid 96, maybe). Were they really down in 90-92 as well?

If we're talking WWF specifically their down period definitely lasted well into 1997.

They booked the Alamodome for the Royal Rumble and had to give away half of the tickets because they couldn't sell enough. Wrestlemania 13 got the worst PPV buyrate of any Mania. WCW was completely smashing them in the ratings compared to 95-96 when it was still pretty close at times. And business was so bad that Vince decided to let one of his top guys leave because he couldn't afford to pay him what he'd agreed.

I think what gets lost in Bret leaving is that even in 97 Vince had eyes on taking the company public, and he didn't want a contract like that on the books.

[thecrusherwi]

Mar 22, 2023 14:06:58 GMT -5 ThankGodForSidJustice said:

I thought the product was still great in 90-92 in that they still felt big time and as mentioned the roster at least until post Mania VIII was stacked. Other then I guess Sting every big name during that period was in their employee during that stretch. Why business started to decline I don't know. I guess a lot of the problem was Hogan was getting stale and they didn't have anyone else who could fill that spot and be The Guy and do even half as well. Warrior was too one dimensional, Sid was too unreliable, Bret lacked the larger then life appeal, Luger wasn't likeable enough. I've always believed you need a super strong overall talent as your #1 face to do great business and they just didn't have it at that time.

Yeah the roster was definitely stacked and the product was quite good. That summer 1991 through WrestleMania VII period is one of my favorites in WWF history. As far as why it started to decline - didn't the Donahue episode with Vince, Meltzer, and others come out around that time? I think the steroids story really went mainstream that spring. Also I think wrestling and the WWF in particular were a bit of an 80s fad and many 80s fads and cultural trends were fading fast in 1991/92 in all of pop culture. I think it was just a natural thing.

[sungod2020]

Mar 22, 2023 11:18:16 GMT -5 salz4life said:

Mar 22, 2023 7:42:50 GMT -5 @wvguitar said:

Aside from the steroid scandals, I’ve always been surprised that WWF wws having trouble in that era.

If you were to put together a dream roster from the golden age of wrestling, you would basically end up with WWF’s roster from some time between 1990 and 1992.

I always though the "down period" was more 93-96 (early to mid 96, maybe). Were they really down in 90-92 as well?

I always thought the early 90s started the down period with Ultimate Warrior not meeting expectations as Hogan's successor and Wrestlemania VII not selling out the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum that they had to relocate to a smaller venue where they had trouble filling THAT arena as well. Though they did sell out Indianapolis's Hoosier Dome the following Wrestlemania, so who knows?

I do think it's safe to say WWF wasn't AS popular as they were in the 1980s, but was in better shape than say post-Wrestlemania VIII to late 1997/early 1998. 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Mar 22, 2023 15:39:18 GMT -5 ToyfareMark said:

Mar 22, 2023 13:53:37 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

If we're talking WWF specifically their down period definitely lasted well into 1997.

They booked the Alamodome for the Royal Rumble and had to give away half of the tickets because they couldn't sell enough. Wrestlemania 13 got the worst PPV buyrate of any Mania. WCW was completely smashing them in the ratings compared to 95-96 when it was still pretty close at times. And business was so bad that Vince decided to let one of his top guys leave because he couldn't afford to pay him what he'd agreed.

I think what gets lost in Bret leaving is that even in 97 Vince had eyes on taking the company public, and he didn't want a contract like that on the books.

He paid Tyson like $3 million. He had the cash, if he really wanted to, he just chose Shawn over Bret, for whatever reason, then 6 months later, Shawn was gone too, except Shawn still had his deal.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

The WWF struggled because, on top of the scandals, they'd burned through pretty much every name talent they could get from the territories and obliterated most of the places where the next crop of talent could be trained to replace them. What they had was Smokey Mountain and Memphis, and they talent they churned out were not anything close to the national TV ready talent they replaced en masse in 1993. To make matters worse, the promising and actual stars that did crop up, were squandered through bad gimmicks and horrendous booking and a near total inability to play to anyone's strengths but Bret. Bret could have a decent match with anyone and worked as the handslapping face, Luger was a natural heel, but was put in that role too, Shawn, ditto. Diesel was a natural talker, so they had him silent, then become a hand slapping face, Bam Bam? Big scary guy became a hand slapping face. Undertaker wasn't good at carrying people, but kept being paired with people he'd need to carry and so on and so forth. It's like they bought a job lot of round holes and were hell bent on hammering every square peg they could find in there until one looked like a good fit. Even the guys who went on to wave the company would be subjected to the same thing, with Rock a smiling legacy babyface and Austin a silent technician managed by Ted DiBiase after a decade of proving himself as one of the best talkers in wrestling.