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Post by stoptheclocks on Apr 16, 2023 7:07:15 GMT -5
They....really were awful, though. They were incoherent nonsense. Like, Hulk liked a ramble, too, but he would at least mostly stay on point. I think Warrior's promos, in retrospect, get by on the fact that a lot of people who talk about them were kids when they were watching him. He was truly garbage on the mic. Energy expended does not equal competence. Yes, but in context of the era warrior's promos work, yes most of us were kids at the time but that's who it was being marketed to. It was the late 80s early 90s. It was like He-man and Connan smashed together and come to life. In the 90s it was kids who bought action figures (oddly those same kids are still buying action figures but those kids are now in their late 30s - early 40s). Exactly. Saying Warrior's promos were trash and only popular with kids is like saying [insert popular YouTuber's name] video's suck. They clearly work brilliantly for the target audience. If kids liked them, that was the point. Sting didn't have the look or the charisma to have become as popular as Warrior was at that time. And being better in the ring wouldn't have made the slightest difference to Warrior's overness, so that part is moot too.
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repomark
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Post by repomark on Apr 16, 2023 10:05:24 GMT -5
This is an interesting one. It is always interesting to me how both rose to prominence in different companies on a similar ark. Both were extremely charismatic, both won their first world title in 1990. I do think - at least in part - NWA started to market Sting as their Warrior once Warrior got so over in WWF. This is especially true of the pre Man Called Sting music they have Sting which was quite similar to Warrior’s theme (albeit also a banger). But I still think Sting was over in his own right anyway.
We will never know, but I think they switch places both still end up at the top of the card. They were both just too charismatic not to. I wonder if an NWA run early in his career might have improved Warrior in ring, which may have added to is longevity. Sting with the McMahon marketing machine behind him likely would have been a bigger star in WWF.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 16, 2023 10:43:38 GMT -5
Yes, but in context of the era warrior's promos work, yes most of us were kids at the time but that's who it was being marketed to. It was the late 80s early 90s. It was like He-man and Connan smashed together and come to life. In the 90s it was kids who bought action figures (oddly those same kids are still buying action figures but those kids are now in their late 30s - early 40s). Exactly. Saying Warrior's promos were trash and only popular with kids is like saying [insert popular YouTuber's name] video's suck. They clearly work brilliantly for the target audience. If kids liked them, that was the point. Sting didn't have the look or the charisma to have become as popular as Warrior was at that time. And being better in the ring wouldn't have made the slightest difference to Warrior's overness, so that part is moot too. Saying Warrior's promos were rambling garbage is definitely a bit much. Yeah, alot of it was nonsencial, but if you saw his promos against "Macho King" Randy Savage headed into Wrestlemania 7, they were on point, showing he CAN cut a coherent promo if he wanted to. As far as if Warrior and Sting swapped places is concerned, I doubt Warrior would fit into the NWA/WCW given his character fit the cartoony WWF at the time and his wrestling ability(or lack thereof) wasn't on par with the "serious" style that company was going for. I can picture Sting getting a good upper-midcard push in the late 80s/early 90s WWF, but I doubt he would be the one to dethrone Hulk Hogan as the flagbearer of the company. Ultimate Warrior couldn't even do it and he fit the WWF mold way better than the Stinger did. Maybe if he stuck around longer when the company was phasing out more musclebound guys during the steroid trial, it would give him some more room to become a main eventer, but they already had Bret Hart who they wanted to give a singles push since the late 80s, so I doubt they would be room for both of them to ascend and be THE top guy. I feel in WWF, the IC title would be Sting's ceiling, so in essence, both men(Sting and Warrior's) careers went the way they should've been(for the most part).
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Apr 16, 2023 12:19:29 GMT -5
Listen, I loved Warrior as a kid. I was 7 when he took the title from Hogan. But I loved him in spite of the promos, not because of them. Even at the time I thought, “He yells a lot and I don’t know most of what he said.” What I could understand didn’t really make sense.
I just didn’t care. He looked cool and wrecked the bad guys.
Sting was kind of awkward on promos but it kind of worked for him in a weird way. Like with Warrior, I didn’t really care. He looked cool and wrecked the bad guys.
I think Sting would have been better from an in ring perspective, but that didn’t really matter for WWF at the time. As much as I prefer Sting in every way and in hindsight think of Warrior as a lousy human being, I think he worked better for that company at that time.
But Vince and company would have a lot fewer headaches with Sting.
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Post by tafkaga on Apr 18, 2023 13:48:25 GMT -5
I question whether Sting could have ever been 'the guy' in WWF. There's no doubt he could work, had charisma, and a marketable look, but he was always much better in the role of title chaser. I suppose it could be argued that WCW just didn't know how to use him once he actually won the belt, but his title reigns always felt obligatory rather than a new era or new direction. Furthermore, I think his vibe was too similar to Hogan's and Warrior's to just jump into that spot. I still feel like the best thing they could have done in '93 was to put Luger in that spot, but as the arrogant heel, and let him work with Bret, Hennig, Macho.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 18, 2023 14:44:24 GMT -5
As I think about this where would the point of divergence from our timeline be? As far as I know Sting stayed with Watts following the Blade Runners run while Warrior went to Dallas & created the proto version of his gimmick.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2023 15:15:21 GMT -5
If you’re taking Surfer Sting in 1990-1991 and making him the WWF’s 1-B, giving him the full marketing machine push, merchandise and everything, I honestly couldn’t say for sure whether he wouldn’t have surpassed Hogan in the way that Warrior was intended to.
Hogan’s biggest saving grace would have been how well he was established and that it was widely regarded that he was one of the best talkers in wrestling. Sting, in that time period, not so much.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Apr 19, 2023 11:12:46 GMT -5
They....really were awful, though. They were incoherent nonsense. Like, Hulk liked a ramble, too, but he would at least mostly stay on point. I think Warrior's promos, in retrospect, get by on the fact that a lot of people who talk about them were kids when they were watching him. He was truly garbage on the mic. Energy expended does not equal competence. I have to disagree about his promos. They were definitely 'out there', just like his character, but not rambling nonsense. He put 110% into making sure that character was presented in exact accordance with his vision, so to think that he just gave half ass rambling promos is completely against character. I have no doubt that he scripted them and carefully chose every word. I certainly cannot blame someone for not liking his promos, the same way a lot of people didn't like his character, but I don't think that either one of those things are garbage. Some of the vocabulary he used was stuff to look up in the dictionary, and not typical loud rambling rassler stuff. It was definitely by design. Let's not forget Jim Hellwig was three month's short of being a qualified chiropractor, so was definitely more intellectual than the character let on.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Apr 19, 2023 11:32:06 GMT -5
Yes, Sting is overall better than Warrior. More versatility, longevity, better worker, got better over time, etc. That doesn't mean Warrior was just a lesser Sting. Warrior exceeded Sting in certain areas that were key to his success in the WWF. His look was a 10. Sting's was more like an 8. Warrior's promos were a 10. Sting's promos in the 80's were a 5 or 6 at best. And I don't want to hear revisionist BS about Warrior's promos being awful, incoherent, etc. His promos were 100% on point for his character and part of the presentation that came far closer than anyone else to eclipsing Hulkamania in the 80's. They....really were awful, though. They were incoherent nonsense. Like, Hulk liked a ramble, too, but he would at least mostly stay on point. I think Warrior's promos, in retrospect, get by on the fact that a lot of people who talk about them were kids when they were watching him. He was truly garbage on the mic. Energy expended does not equal competence. To me they hit a level of "I have no f***ing clue what he's talking about, but I believe that he does!" To me a promo is meant to complement or overall increase the aesthetic or presentation of a wrestler. For an out of control wild man, these rambling incoherent promos enhance the image greatly. How much of that was intentional on his part, I have no f***ing clue, but I can't deny that his promos are a fun watch.
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Dang!
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Post by Dang! on Apr 19, 2023 13:03:36 GMT -5
I don't think it would have mattered. Sting had the advantage of working with someone like Ric Flair to hone his craft. I doubt Steve Borden was going to learn much from working with guys like Hercules and Dino Bravo in WWF. And while he would eventually find his charisma, Sting was not on the same level as Warrior was back when Warrior started in WWF. Also Warrior had a more impressive body, which is what Vince admired most at the time. Honestly, I don't see Sting rising past the midcard much like Ricky Steamboat was. Yes. Sting's most recent AEW promo pretty much reminded me that it was Ric Flair who helped him become what he is today. WWF did not have a guy like that on top. Warrior probably could have been a better wrestler if he had the right mentor.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Apr 19, 2023 13:32:41 GMT -5
Yes, but in context of the era warrior's promos work, yes most of us were kids at the time but that's who it was being marketed to. It was the late 80s early 90s. It was like He-man and Connan smashed together and come to life. In the 90s it was kids who bought action figures (oddly those same kids are still buying action figures but those kids are now in their late 30s - early 40s). Exactly. Saying Warrior's promos were trash and only popular with kids is like saying [insert popular YouTuber's name] video's suck. They clearly work brilliantly for the target audience. If kids liked them, that was the point. Sting didn't have the look or the charisma to have become as popular as Warrior was at that time. And being better in the ring wouldn't have made the slightest difference to Warrior's overness, so that part is moot too. I remember a video with a guy listing YouTube channels and he described that as a kid he liked Smosh because he found their videos over the top, random, flashy and loud. But then he grew up and he found their videos over the top, random, flashy and loud.
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Post by Sephiroth on Apr 19, 2023 13:40:46 GMT -5
The ideal time to bring Sting in would’ve been in place of Luger. Imagine in 1993; Hogan has been beaten, Yokozuna has defeated everyone on the USS Intrepid, and this guy steps off the helicopter to slam him. I think people forget just how jacked Sting was in those days. He would have looked believable “slamming” Yoko
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Apr 19, 2023 16:04:20 GMT -5
I think it definitely could have worked and almost everyone would have preferred it.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 20, 2023 7:50:29 GMT -5
I’ve been reading through this thread and having a think about the question posed at the beginning, and the more I’ve thought about it, the stranger I’ve found the comparison between Sting and the Ultimate Warrior. I’d viewed them as similar myself for ages, but outside of a few aesthetic similarities the characters aren’t remotely the same. The Warrior had that sort of manic energy, the character was totally unhinged and a bit scary almost, which Sting wasn’t at all. If anything was similar to Hogan, an all-American Venice Beach bodybuilder who was the whitest of white meat babyfaces.
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Apr 20, 2023 8:17:51 GMT -5
I’ve been reading through this thread and having a think about the question posed at the beginning, and the more I’ve thought about it, the stranger I’ve found the comparison between Sting and the Ultimate Warrior. I’d viewed them as similar myself for ages, but outside of a few aesthetic similarities the characters aren’t remotely the same. The Warrior had that sort of manic energy, the character was totally unhinged and a bit scary almost, which Sting wasn’t at all. If anything was similar to Hogan, an all-American Venice Beach bodybuilder who was the whitest of white meat babyfaces. Yep. Warrior could have easily been a heel without changing much. Sting would have had to kill someone's grandma for any of us to be convinced there was an evil bone in his body. They had big muscles, wore face paint, occasionally beat their chests, and that's about as far as the similarities go.
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Post by ANuclearError on Apr 20, 2023 11:16:02 GMT -5
I’ve been reading through this thread and having a think about the question posed at the beginning, and the more I’ve thought about it, the stranger I’ve found the comparison between Sting and the Ultimate Warrior. I’d viewed them as similar myself for ages, but outside of a few aesthetic similarities the characters aren’t remotely the same. The Warrior had that sort of manic energy, the character was totally unhinged and a bit scary almost, which Sting wasn’t at all. If anything was similar to Hogan, an all-American Venice Beach bodybuilder who was the whitest of white meat babyfaces. A big reason why the two are always compared is that they started their careers side by side, tagging as the Blade Runners. Their histories already intertwine, so this kinda speculation is inevitable.
Fwiw, I think Sting would have flourished in the WWF. Obviously he wouldn't have been the Warrior, Hellwig was already planting the seeds pre-WWF anyway. I think Sting's shown enough adaptability where he could tune his gimmick to not step on Hogan's toes too much and still succeed.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 20, 2023 13:41:46 GMT -5
I question whether Sting could have ever been 'the guy' in WWF. There's no doubt he could work, had charisma, and a marketable look, but he was always much better in the role of title chaser. I suppose it could be argued that WCW just didn't know how to use him once he actually won the belt, but his title reigns always felt obligatory rather than a new era or new direction. Furthermore, I think his vibe was too similar to Hogan's and Warrior's to just jump into that spot. I still feel like the best thing they could have done in '93 was to put Luger in that spot, but as the arrogant heel, and let him work with Bret, Hennig, Macho. In fairness I think that's also just the difference in how NWA/WCW was booked compared to WWF. NWA/WCW was built around the facing chasing a heel champ. There were some reigns in the company's history sure but in that territory the chase was the story. WWE/WWF has more traditionally been about long term face champs taking on the monster of the month. I think Sting COULD absolutely do that as he did it with Vader (also with having him have to go through people like Cactus, the Barbarian, and Abdullah). Now could Warrior do the WCW way? I think in some instances. I think having him fight vs the Horsemen, Dangerous Alliance, or nWo could work in theory, but I dunno if he could have done say.. the Luger feud.
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