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Post by The Barber on Jul 5, 2023 4:38:10 GMT -5
The cruel twist was that the WWF actually got good again not long after I dipped, and I missed a ton of fun stuff (McMahon-Helmsley era, the first few months of Angle, the Dudleys and Hardys getting over huge, early Radicalz, Too Cool's peak months, etc.). I watched the 2000 Royal Rumble and WrestleMania 2000, but that was about it for the year before I picked it up again in 2001. I feel like I'm the only one who didn't like the year 2000 in the WWF. I was never a fan of the McMahon-Helmsley Era, got bored of the tag teams real quick, no Steve Austin (mostly), the never ending Rock-Triple H feud, WrestleMania wasn't that good, etc.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Jul 5, 2023 4:49:16 GMT -5
Based on the DeadLock episodes that I've listened to from 99, the tv shows were pretty awful despite also being at the peak of wrestling popularity
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jul 5, 2023 9:24:08 GMT -5
I find almost everything until the last quarter when it was leading in to 2000 unwatchable.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jul 5, 2023 9:49:20 GMT -5
The Bad Owen's Hart's death Droz getting paralyzed Vince's being a the higher power Wrestlemania 15(Austin vs Rock being the only good thing) The Corporation and The Ministry of Darkness merging Road Dogg and Billy Gunn failing as singles starsThe Start of Big Show multiple heel face turns Beaver Cleavage The Good Austin vs Rock Rock N Sock connection Kurt Angle's,The Dudleyz,and Chris Jericho's debut Austin being run down(yes I know it turned out to be a disappointment but starting off good) What are your thoughts on 99 WWF since it seems to be a mixed bag? I don't think Road Dogg was failing as a singles star, he seemed pretty over based on crowd reaction. Billy Gunn OTOH was struggling. In fact, after his feud with The Rock, they put him back together with Road Dogg(and the rest of DX). That to me as an admission that his singles run has failed. Rock going scorched earth on Billy Gunn might’ve not been the reason why Gunn’s singles push failed, but that promo does stand out.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Jul 5, 2023 10:48:59 GMT -5
It's the year that made me a wrestling fan. I was 13 in summer 1999. March 99, my friend got Warzone for the N64 and we played it lots, and I found it was also a TV show on Sky which we had. I remember my first episode, The Rock walked down to ring and called The Big Show a roody poo candy ass and I was immediately a fan. First match was Owen Hart v D'lo Brown in a Steel City Street Fight.
As I immediately gravitated to The Rock (who wouldn't at the time?) and the Brood (rule of cool) I lived through their storylines and was delighted when both turned face in April. I also loved the X-Pac/Kane team, and my sister though Road Dogg was funny.
Owen Hart (who I had gravitated to early as a favourite too, he had a goofy style at the time which stood out) dying damn near killed my interest for good. But I held on. Even though for ages after, anytime there was some new match stipulation on PPV, I feared it was going to be another Owen Hart incident. Like the Iron Circle match. Or the Lions Den.
I remember The Rock beating HHH in a cage match vividly like its the Friday night RAW in early July 1999 all over again. Watching the King of the Ring 99 as my first live PPV, where everyone I was rooting for (Rock, Brood, Austin, X-Pac/Kane/Road Dogg in the KOTR) all lost easily!
When Jericho debuted he looked like a geek. He won me over when he had a surprisingly good match with Chyna because even then I knew that took talent. Oh, and he beat The Godfather clean on RAW which no one ever did.
My biggest memory from 1999? The Acolytes face turn. Or, well, the first step as they went tweener for a few months. August 99, they'd been beaten up on Heat by Taker and Big Show (not seen it, we didn't get Heat back then). RAW opens up with the fireworks and pyro and in the middle of them going off, the Acolytes appeared on the ramp and walked through it to the ring, calling out Taker and Big Show. It was the coolest shit I'd ever seen, proper Arnie calling out the bad guys stuff.
I also watched 1999 WCW from about summer on, which had many better wrestlers (Bret, Hennig, Malenko, Guerrero, Rey, Kidman, Kanyon, Bigelow, DDP, Sting, Meng, Booker to name just a few) who were struggling through shit booking. And I noticed that in the last quarter, the WCW booking got even worse. I only found out about Vince Russo when he appeared on camera in 2000.
In short, yeah, its crash TV and has many terrible, terrible moments (Beaver Cleavage, Owen dying, Mark Henry's incest angle, whatever the Blue Meanie/Goldust stuff was meant to be) but overall, it brought me into the fold, and kept me here. Somehow.
And I am genuinely nostalgia for my early mark Rock fandom, the Kane and X-Pac team (they can still become friends again, there's still time!) and my slow 180 turn on Mick Foley, from thinking him a daft loser to being totally won over by the guy. Oh, and the Big Bossman's 1999. All time GOAT heel work...
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Post by Stu on Jul 5, 2023 10:56:40 GMT -5
Wrestling Bios' "Reliving the War" series is less than two months from 1999. We're gonna see all this play out and it may be rough.
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Post by chronocross on Jul 5, 2023 10:59:28 GMT -5
I really enjoyed it at the time but it has not aged well and I only watch the main events from 1999.
Things pick up in the year 2000 and gets much better.
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Post by stephen90 on Jul 5, 2023 11:22:43 GMT -5
Here's an issue from WWF 99 you have Jericho looking like a face when he's interruption two heels when I'm reality he's supposed to be a heel. youtu.be/VK5Figz3aIU
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Post by James Fabiano on Jul 5, 2023 12:35:04 GMT -5
The IC title really went to crap in 99. That period when it went from Shamrock to Val Venis to Road Dogg to Goldust to Godfather to Jarrett to Edge back to Jarrett then to D-Lo then back to Jarrett again all within a few months was just dire. I wonder why that could be...bro?
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Jul 5, 2023 13:05:26 GMT -5
Wrestling Bios' "Reliving the War" series is less than two months from 1999. We're gonna see all this play out and it may be rough. Is it just me waiting to see him deal with the first Russo era of WCW. The 32 man tournament (which admittedly I am a mark for, I love tournaments) had so many stupid decisions, Sting losing his belt for losing a non-title match, Flair getting buried in the desert, etc. Also the "if Curt Hennig loses he must retire" storyline where he got put up against GOLDBERG, lost by submission, and this wasn't counted as a defeat as "he wasn't pinned". (TO say nothing of that f***ing pinata on a pole and Oklahoma...)
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Post by Billie Gein on Jul 5, 2023 14:30:46 GMT -5
I liked it but I wouldn't call it a good wrestling show or anything, I could still go back and watch all the PPVs from that year (aside from Over the Edge for obvious reasons) because they were entertaining, sometimes for the wrong reasons. Obviously the main event guys were completely carrying the show, the midcard in WWF was terrible until they brought in the good midcard wrestling talent from WCW.
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Post by koreycaskets on Jul 5, 2023 14:56:55 GMT -5
Probably my fav year for wrestling. I'm in the minority of people who liked the Corporate Ministry. My fav era of the Undertaker was the evil cult leader one as well.
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Post by sungod2020 on Jul 5, 2023 17:20:47 GMT -5
I don't think Road Dogg was failing as a singles star, he seemed pretty over based on crowd reaction. Billy Gunn OTOH was struggling. In fact, after his feud with The Rock, they put him back together with Road Dogg(and the rest of DX). That to me as an admission that his singles run has failed. Rock going scorched earth on Billy Gunn might’ve not been the reason why Gunn’s singles push failed, but that promo does stand out. I don't think Billy Gunn should've had that push to begin with, or at the very least, not be put into a program with The Rock, of course he was going to get owned. IDK, he's a talented in-ring worker, but he never clicked as a singles star. It's possible that part of his problem was this was in an era where more colorful and over guys stood out and brought more to the table than he could. He might've had a better shot in the 2010s as a Dolph Ziggler type of guy.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Jul 5, 2023 18:59:05 GMT -5
I thought Jan-Mar was mostly on par with 1998. Post-Mania is when things went downhill. Austin v Vince or Undertaker was already played out yet they ran with it well into the summer. The IC title went to crap. Billy Gunn flopped as KOTR. They did a good job building to a Austin/HHH Summerslam main event then at the last minute threw a broken down Mankind in. Jericho's first few months were really rough.
The last month or so of the year you could see things starting to turn around though. Stephanie aligning with HHH. The one positive of Austin's injury was it let Rock become the clear top babyface. Jericho found his footing. Tag teams like E&C/Hardys/Dudleys/Too Cool were starting to get over, Angle had debuted, Tazz vignettes had started and we didn't know it at the time but Eddie/Benoit/Saturn/Malenko were all about to arrive too so all of a sudden the midcard and tag divisions were way stronger compared to most of 99.
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fg
Unicron
Gaming
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Post by fg on Jul 5, 2023 19:07:40 GMT -5
Rock going scorched earth on Billy Gunn might’ve not been the reason why Gunn’s singles push failed, but that promo does stand out. I don't think Billy Gunn should've had that push to begin with, or at the very least, not be put into a program with The Rock, of course he was going to get owned. IDK, he's a talented in-ring worker, but he never clicked as a singles star. It's possible that part of his problem was this was in an era where more colorful and over guys stood out and brought more to the table than he could. He might've had a better shot in the 2010s as a Dolph Ziggler type of guy. One guy who reviewed this match as part of his review of SSlam 99, said that this match proved that Billy didn’t have what it took to be a singles main eventer.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Jul 5, 2023 20:55:45 GMT -5
I don't think this is any sort of hot take at all, but the more time passes, the stuff that was going on in WWF, and really even some of the ECW stuff just hasn't aged well. Both had that Crash TV vibe that we've all talked about a zillion times. The product was very of-it's-time. Still, for nostalgia purposes it can be fun to watch but that's about all I get out of it. Don't get me wrong, that era in all 3 companies made me a life time fan, it's just hard to watch the late 90's at times with 2023 glasses on.
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Renslayer
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every time i come around your city...
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Post by Renslayer on Jul 6, 2023 0:19:54 GMT -5
I thought Jan-Mar was mostly on par with 1998. Post-Mania is when things went downhill. Austin v Vince or Undertaker was already played out yet they ran with it well into the summer. The IC title went to crap. Billy Gunn flopped as KOTR. They did a good job building to a Austin/HHH Summerslam main event then at the last minute threw a broken down Mankind in. Jericho's first few months were really rough. The last month or so of the year you could see things starting to turn around though. Stephanie aligning with HHH. The one positive of Austin's injury was it let Rock become the clear top babyface. Jericho found his footing. Tag teams like E&C/Hardys/Dudleys/Too Cool were starting to get over, Angle had debuted, Tazz vignettes had started and we didn't know it at the time but Eddie/Benoit/Saturn/Malenko were all about to arrive too so all of a sudden the midcard and tag divisions were way stronger compared to most of 99. Always thought that they should've ran with Shane as the big bad austin and rock had to deal with. They could've kept Vince off tv for a while (or not do the higher power! 😡😡)
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 6, 2023 5:02:03 GMT -5
I can't stand 1998 or 1999 WWF. And was in their prime demographic at the time. I have no nostalgia for it at all. It does feel like one of those things where the more I think about it, the less fondly I look back on a lot of the era; I think in ‘98 I was drawn in by Austin, Foley, and Taker but that the biggest draw was “Wow, I was a fan of WWF during the Hogan era, but check out how *different* it feels and looks, now!” Once the novelty of the show format and aesthetics being so distinct from the 80s-early 90s wore off, I realized I didn’t really like most of what I was watching, which goes for both WWF and WCW. Maybe it was 14 year old me entering smark-hood, but I guess there’s a reason it took discovering ROH in 2004 or so to basically save my wrestling fandom: the “mainstream US wrestling” format of the era, which still influences a lot of that today to some extent, just didn’t appeal to me after a fairly short amount of time.
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ToyfareMark
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Post by ToyfareMark on Jul 6, 2023 5:56:22 GMT -5
I can't stand 1998 or 1999 WWF. And was in their prime demographic at the time. I have no nostalgia for it at all. It does feel like one of those things where the more I think about it, the less fondly I look back on a lot of the era; I think in ‘98 I was drawn in by Austin, Foley, and Taker but that the biggest draw was “Wow, I was a fan of WWF during the Hogan era, but check out how *different* it feels and looks, now!” Once the novelty of the show format and aesthetics being so distinct from the 80s-early 90s wore off, I realized I didn’t really like most of what I was watching, which goes for both WWF and WCW. Maybe it was 14 year old me entering smark-hood, but I guess there’s a reason it took discovering ROH in 2004 or so to basically save my wrestling fandom: the “mainstream US wrestling” format of the era, which still influences a lot of that today to some extent, just didn’t appeal to me after a fairly short amount of time. It's funny because I loved 1997, 2000, and 2001. There are a few reasons that I dislike 98/99. Austin goes from defiant rebel not caring about anything to crowd pandering Austin with the beer swilling Most of the matches even on PPV were just not good. Vince Russo's crash TV style booking. Having suffered through the early 90's wrestling depression, all of a sudden so many people who I knew who mocked wrestling were now fans, and would look to me to be their guru. Wrestling wasn't just my thing anymore. This reason is selfish, but I didn't care. WCW's genius decision that ratings were everything meant all matches had to be competitive meant main eventers were spotlighted all the time on TV which in my opinion led to oversaturation, which meant you're getting tired of guys much quicker than you normally would. Plus all competitive matches on TV meant watering down the PPV's. And this last one is hard to explain but basically I felt like the world shrank. What I mean by this is that when I was younger and more naive, Prime Time Wrestling made you feel that the WWF was super huge. Prime Time showed matches from different arena's all over the country. Even thought it wasn't live, it still felt like the WWF was everywhere all at once. Raw took that away, and now everything all happened in one centralized location. Again this is just what I felt at the time, and I'm sure I'm one of the very few who felt like this.
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