What were the creative plans for Ultimate Warrior 1996-97?

[The Rick Jericho]

When they brought him back at Wrestlemania 12, I'm sure there was at least a one year plan ahead for what they were going to do with him.

The first few months back we saw:

Hunter Hearst Helmsley at Wrestlemania 12
Goldust WWF Intercontinental - Good Friends, Better Enemies
Owen Hart (D) - Beware of Dog
Jerry Lawler - King of the Ring
Camp Cornette* - International Incident

Now we know the last match didn't happen, but it seemed like he was locking in feuding with Camp Cornette through the Summer of 1996.

One thing is for sure, in this very short run, the fans ate this up. He was over, so WWE downplaying it before making up with him was odd. The fans wanted him and had an appetite to see him destroy guys.

So were there any leaked plans of who he was facing at Survivor Series, Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania 13?

The one guy I could see was Warrior and Austin feuding in the fall of 1996 if Bret doesn't come back.

[JasonVoorhees1988]

As a kid I wanted him to squash Shawn Michaels. Like... HBK superkick doesn't even phase him, gorilla press, splash, HBK has every bone broken and goes the f*** away. God, that was the most "push this guy, no matter what" push ever.

But I don't think Vince wanted to put the belt on him.

[bluebeach25]

It's been known for Years at this point that Vince wanted Warrior back post-Montreal in late 97. But it didn't just came to together for whatever, i think Warrior/Hogan in WCW happened in early/mid 98? Warrior's Run in WCW was terrible enough, what a waste that was. Horrorfying Rematch against Hogan.

So not sure what would've been the plans but what makes you wonder the most is if Warrior really comes back pre-wm 14? What's his Spot on the Card? Just imagine HBK and Warrior in the same Locker Room for long...

[Gunhaver]

Jul 5, 2023 20:12:22 GMT -5 JasonVoorhees1988 said:

As a kid I wanted him to squash Shawn Michaels. Like... HBK superkick doesn't even phase him, gorilla press, splash, HBK has every bone broken and goes the f*** away. God, that was the most "push this guy, no matter what" push ever.

But I don't think Vince wanted to put the belt on him.

With Shawn's pull I don't think he would lose to Warrior, but I'd pay top dollar to see it as a weird-ass tag team.

[tirtefaa]

There weren't any creative plans.

It was mostly a ploy to just try to get any eyes on the product.

If WCW didn't have them signed, Vince was going to get them; Vader, Mero, Warrior and later Sid.

I still think that Vince was focusing on his current stars as well as building up newer guys like Ahmed Johnson and Goldust.

But it was a massive disaster all around.

Jarrett leaves.

Nash and Hall left.

Waltman was in rehab.

Bret and Undertaker went on hiatus.

Ahmed got injured.

Triple H got "punished".

Warrior no-showed.

Roberts was a bust.


So you have mostly a show with very few stars for Warrior to even feud with from the get go, so again WHAT were the plans? They really didn't have any. Any big heels they were building up at the time, they were building up for title programs with Shawn or for the Undertaker.

The only people I could think of other than Goldust and Lawler would have been Yokozuna, Bulldog or Owen...all of who were super super stale at this point (literally how many matches where Owen or Bulldog are in a singles match while the other person causes the DQ 10 minutes later?). Could you imagine if they had Austin feud with Warrior? That would have been a disaster.

No. I think Vince knew he wasn't likely going to hold onto Warrior for very long, but just wanted to do anything he could to get eyes on the product. This is the same guy who promoted for weeks the return of Razor Ramon.and Diesel, and assumed people would like the Roadie if he was shown to be the real Double J.

1996 is an awful year to watch, almost as bad as 1994, but it starts to finally find it's footing once Vince realized he was going to have to do a slow burn with his new stars (and take ratings hits along the way) before getting the fans to finally tune back in.

The thing to remember is this; don't bring a star into a company with the assumption that people will tune in because of them. It worked with Hogan and WCW for reasons that normally aren't present, but otherwise most of the time it loses it's luster super quick, and eventually you just get into the habit of trying to one up yourself.

[hentery]

Not really sure why you’d ask us. We are not the booking team of ww(f). If you’re asking if Dave said anything naw not really

[tafkaga]

Jul 6, 2023 4:48:04 GMT -5 hentery said:

Not really sure why you’d ask us. We are not the booking team of ww(f). If you’re asking if Dave said anything naw not really

Maybe because we all come to the conversation with different information, and it's possible that someone else here might have some information that you don't, based on having read/heard something that you didn't.  

To the OP, it felt like they had the same spot for him as they did for Luger in '94 and Bret in '95, the main event guys who wrestle in the midcard because they aren't part of Vince's vision.  

[cjh]

Jul 5, 2023 23:49:06 GMT -5 tirtefaa said:

There weren't any creative plans.

It was mostly a ploy to just try to get any eyes on the product.

If WCW didn't have them signed, Vince was going to get them; Vader, Mero, Warrior and later Sid.

I still think that Vince was focusing on his current stars as well as building up newer guys like Ahmed Johnson and Goldust.

But it was a massive disaster all around.

Jarrett leaves.

Nash and Hall left.

Waltman was in rehab.

Bret and Undertaker went on hiatus.

Ahmed got injured.

Triple H got "punished".

Warrior no-showed.

Roberts was a bust.


So you have mostly a show with very few stars for Warrior to even feud with from the get go, so again WHAT were the plans? They really didn't have any. Any big heels they were building up at the time, they were building up for title programs with Shawn or for the Undertaker.

The only people I could think of other than Goldust and Lawler would have been Yokozuna, Bulldog or Owen...all of who were super super stale at this point (literally how many matches where Owen or Bulldog are in a singles match while the other person causes the DQ 10 minutes later?). Could you imagine if they had Austin feud with Warrior? That would have been a disaster.

No. I think Vince knew he wasn't likely going to hold onto Warrior for very long, but just wanted to do anything he could to get eyes on the product. This is the same guy who promoted for weeks the return of Razor Ramon.and Diesel, and assumed people would like the Roadie if he was shown to be the real Double J.

1996 is an awful year to watch, almost as bad as 1994, but it starts to finally find it's footing once Vince realized he was going to have to do a slow burn with his new stars (and take ratings hits along the way) before getting the fans to finally tune back in.

The thing to remember is this; don't bring a star into a company with the assumption that people will tune in because of them. It worked with Hogan and WCW for reasons that normally aren't present, but otherwise most of the time it loses it's luster super quick, and eventually you just get into the habit of trying to one up yourself.

Undertaker was working full time in 1996, wasn't he?  He had a match at all 12 PPVs, though two of them were just for the live audience.

[Hypnosis]

Jul 5, 2023 23:25:43 GMT -5 Gunhaver said:

Jul 5, 2023 20:12:22 GMT -5 JasonVoorhees1988 said:

As a kid I wanted him to squash Shawn Michaels. Like... HBK superkick doesn't even phase him, gorilla press, splash, HBK has every bone broken and goes the f*** away. God, that was the most "push this guy, no matter what" push ever.

But I don't think Vince wanted to put the belt on him.

With Shawn's pull I don't think he would lose to Warrior, but I'd pay top dollar to see it as a weird-ass tag team.

WWE came pretty close to that more than once:

[bob]

I would've loved to have seen Warrior vs Yokozuna

[XIII]

I want to know how many drugs the Survivor Series team of the Warrior, Anvil, and Rockers did before the match. Damn!

[hassanchop]

Interestingly Ahmed is one of the few guys to say nice things about Warrior and said Warrior taught him stuff about the business



If Warrior stayed maybe Ahmed would shoot have his back and maybe Warrior would stand up for Ahmed. Imagine the headaches Cornette and JR would have to the duo of Ahmed and Warrior.

[Gunhaver]

Jul 6, 2023 11:18:32 GMT -5 Hypnosis said:

Soul-piercing nightmare blunt rotation.

[krozor]

I could easily imagine Ahmed and Warrior bonding over cutting promos about The Bee God and The Sand Ripper.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

Jul 6, 2023 13:16:38 GMT -5 XIII said:

I want to know how many drugs the Survivor Series team of the Warrior, Anvil, and Rockers did before the match. Damn!

Sadly I bet the Warrior/Tornado/LOD and Jake/Snuka/Rockers teams from the following year probably did even more. Although I guess maybe Animal causes the 1990 Warrior team to fall behind the other two.

[Rumble McSkirmish]

Jul 6, 2023 8:45:36 GMT -5 cjh said:

Jul 5, 2023 23:49:06 GMT -5 tirtefaa said:

There weren't any creative plans.

It was mostly a ploy to just try to get any eyes on the product.

If WCW didn't have them signed, Vince was going to get them; Vader, Mero, Warrior and later Sid.

I still think that Vince was focusing on his current stars as well as building up newer guys like Ahmed Johnson and Goldust.

But it was a massive disaster all around.

Jarrett leaves.

Nash and Hall left.

Waltman was in rehab.

Bret and Undertaker went on hiatus.

Ahmed got injured.

Triple H got "punished".

Warrior no-showed.

Roberts was a bust.


So you have mostly a show with very few stars for Warrior to even feud with from the get go, so again WHAT were the plans? They really didn't have any. Any big heels they were building up at the time, they were building up for title programs with Shawn or for the Undertaker.

The only people I could think of other than Goldust and Lawler would have been Yokozuna, Bulldog or Owen...all of who were super super stale at this point (literally how many matches where Owen or Bulldog are in a singles match while the other person causes the DQ 10 minutes later?). Could you imagine if they had Austin feud with Warrior? That would have been a disaster.

No. I think Vince knew he wasn't likely going to hold onto Warrior for very long, but just wanted to do anything he could to get eyes on the product. This is the same guy who promoted for weeks the return of Razor Ramon.and Diesel, and assumed people would like the Roadie if he was shown to be the real Double J.

1996 is an awful year to watch, almost as bad as 1994, but it starts to finally find it's footing once Vince realized he was going to have to do a slow burn with his new stars (and take ratings hits along the way) before getting the fans to finally tune back in.

The thing to remember is this; don't bring a star into a company with the assumption that people will tune in because of them. It worked with Hogan and WCW for reasons that normally aren't present, but otherwise most of the time it loses it's luster super quick, and eventually you just get into the habit of trying to one up yourself.

Undertaker was working full time in 1996, wasn't he?  He had a match at all 12 PPVs, though two of them were just for the live audience.

Yeah Taker spent most of 1996 feuding with Goldust and Mankind, he did take some time off in late summer early fall though on account of a nasty staph infection he got from the Boiler Room Brawl with Mankind. (And was replaced on some stops on the house show loop at that time by Bill Watts of all people.)

[Mozenrath]

Jul 6, 2023 17:31:34 GMT -5 Rumble McSkirmish said:

Jul 6, 2023 8:45:36 GMT -5 cjh said:

Undertaker was working full time in 1996, wasn't he?  He had a match at all 12 PPVs, though two of them were just for the live audience.

Yeah Taker spent most of 1996 feuding with Goldust and Mankind, he did take some time off in late summer early fall though on account of a nasty staph infection he got from the Boiler Room Brawl with Mankind. (And was replaced on some stops on the house show loop at that time by Bill Watts of all people.)

Including a match where Bill Watts, according to Foley, beat him in a casket match by slapping Bearer in the face, beating up Foley, throwing him in the casket, and shutting the lid, all without taking his hat off. Given Watts was nearing 60 and retired by then, I assume the decision was made to not have him bump, though I also imagine Foley probably was fine with what had to be an easy night.

[Mozenrath]

I kind of wonder if, by then, WWE knew he was too unreliable to plan long-term around, but on the other hand, they also really wanted and needed star power. Camp Cornette was probably a safe bet, and would have provided him a stream of villains for a bit.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jul 6, 2023 17:45:20 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Jul 6, 2023 17:31:34 GMT -5 Rumble McSkirmish said:

Yeah Taker spent most of 1996 feuding with Goldust and Mankind, he did take some time off in late summer early fall though on account of a nasty staph infection he got from the Boiler Room Brawl with Mankind. (And was replaced on some stops on the house show loop at that time by Bill Watts of all people.)

Including a match where Bill Watts, according to Foley, beat him in a casket match by slapping Bearer in the face, beating up Foley, throwing him in the casket, and shutting the lid, all without taking his hat off. Given Watts was nearing 60 and retired by then, I assume the decision was made to not have him bump, though I also imagine Foley probably was fine with what had to be an easy night.

I believe Foley said he slapped Bearer so hard that he drew blood.

[Mozenrath]

Jul 6, 2023 18:42:20 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Jul 6, 2023 17:45:20 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Including a match where Bill Watts, according to Foley, beat him in a casket match by slapping Bearer in the face, beating up Foley, throwing him in the casket, and shutting the lid, all without taking his hat off. Given Watts was nearing 60 and retired by then, I assume the decision was made to not have him bump, though I also imagine Foley probably was fine with what had to be an easy night.

I believe Foley said he slapped Bearer so hard that he drew blood.

I had forgotten that detail, but yeah, which, sounds like a bit much.