ghost
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,738
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Post by ghost on Nov 4, 2023 19:08:11 GMT -5
Knight will be fine but I’m not sure I get the point of even having this match in the first place. To show that Knight “belongs” as a top guy before giving him the US title at Mania? I mean, I guess that’s logical to some degree but could have done this feud after WM 40 and it could have had more juice behind it.
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King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,738
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Post by King Devitt on Nov 5, 2023 1:52:33 GMT -5
The reason I'm upset is that it's always the same - challenger has Roman dead to rights, one of Romans cousins does a run-in, Roman wins. And the challenger looks like a tool for not doing anything to counter Romans cousins sticking their noses in. Knight made such a big deal about Roman needing so many opportunities to win the big one for the first time, yet he does nothing to make sure either Jimmmy or Solo don't get involved. When Roman loses the title, they should have the face have Roman in their sights, Romans friends try to help, challenger outsmarts Roman by having his pals stop them, Roman realizes his goose is cooked, then gets pinned. *motions to the match with Cody where it still backfired* And yeah count me in with those that think this was unnecessary. I'm glad Knight got the big payday out of it, but you could've had Knight come out and talk trash during the Miz/Waller meh-a-thon if you were just gonna feed him to Jinder Reigns. He still would've been super over regardless. You could have done anything with him on this show. I mean he'll be fine, but it just seems like an odd choice.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Nov 5, 2023 11:43:01 GMT -5
WWE need to review 1997 and see how Stone Cold flirted with the WWF title scene without ever having a championship match, and should have built LA Knight similarly
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fg
Unicron
Gaming
Posts: 2,943
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Post by fg on Nov 5, 2023 12:05:44 GMT -5
WWE need to review 1997 and see how Stone Cold flirted with the WWF title scene without ever having a championship match, and should have built LA Knight similarly Steve had a title match with the Undertaker at the May 1997 PPV with the Harts costing him the match.
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Post by Treklubj on Nov 5, 2023 17:33:22 GMT -5
WWE need to review 1997 and see how Stone Cold flirted with the WWF title scene without ever having a championship match, and should have built LA Knight similarly Steve Austin challenged for the World title in a fatal 4-way and lost in 1997. He then went on to Wrestlemania where Bret Hart beat him so bad he passed out and damn near bled out. This was after Bret beat him at Survivor Series 1996. He tried to avenge all those Ls to the Hitman and the best he could do was pick up a DQ win. Austin challenged Undertaker for the World title in May and lost. Austin did manage to win a tag team title with Shawn Michaels which led to a match with HBK over who would be team captain. He couldn't even win that. In July, Austin was part of the team that lost to the Hart Foundation at Candian Stampede. Owen Hart broke his neck at Summerslam. Austin did manage to win I-C title though, thanks to the worst roll-up in history. Austin did manage to bounce back at the end of the year by beating Owen (he obviously couldn't wasn't on the level of the #1 Hart) and Rock (who wasn't close to being THE ROCK yet) to keep hold of the I-C belt. If Austin's 1997 had taken place today I'm pretty sure there would be a multi-page "Steve Austin is a Stone Cold bitch" thread on this board.
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Post by Treklubj on Nov 5, 2023 17:42:24 GMT -5
L.A. Knight's star will continue to rise.
Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Cody Rhodes and Jey Uso all list to Roman and all got more over after the losses than they were before. I'm having a hard time seeing why anyone believes that L.A. Knight will be the dude to break that trend.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,671
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Post by Nosnorb on Nov 5, 2023 19:55:17 GMT -5
L.A. Knight's star will continue to rise. Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Cody Rhodes and Jey Uso all list to Roman and all got more over after the losses than they were before. I'm having a hard time seeing why anyone believes that L.A. Knight will be the dude to break that trend. As mentioned before, you can't fight the dude that has both the top titles, lose, and move on and not have it deemed going down the card. Knight was red hot before this, and there is nowhere higher he can go except beating Roman, which doesn't look like it's going to happen. And with Roman needing interferance to win every single match and the faces looking like nimrods for not doing anything about it, at this stage nobody is going to be elevated from actually facing Roman unless they beat him. In the buildup, Knight stated how much of a bottler Roman was and that he only needed one shot to get the job done. Well, he's had his shot. I think Knight will keep his heat, but dudes star won't rise due to this defeat. Dude would have gotten even hotter if he actually did only need the one chance.
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Post by Treklubj on Nov 5, 2023 20:11:44 GMT -5
L.A. Knight's star will continue to rise. Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Cody Rhodes and Jey Uso all list to Roman and all got more over after the losses than they were before. I'm having a hard time seeing why anyone believes that L.A. Knight will be the dude to break that trend. As mentioned before, you can't fight the dude that has both the top titles, lose, and move on and not have it deemed going down the card. Knight was red hot before this, and there is nowhere higher he can go except beating Roman, which doesn't look like it's going to happen. And with Roman needing interferance to win every single match and the faces looking like nimrods for not doing anything about it, at this stage nobody is going to be elevated from actually facing Roman unless they beat him. In the buildup, Knight stated how much of a bottler Roman was and that he only needed one shot to get the job done. Well, he's had his shot. I think Knight will keep his heat, but dudes star won't rise due to this defeat. Dude would have gotten even hotter if he actually did only need the one chance. Do you think LA Knight has peaked in WWE?
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,671
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Post by Nosnorb on Nov 5, 2023 20:18:52 GMT -5
As mentioned before, you can't fight the dude that has both the top titles, lose, and move on and not have it deemed going down the card. Knight was red hot before this, and there is nowhere higher he can go except beating Roman, which doesn't look like it's going to happen. And with Roman needing interferance to win every single match and the faces looking like nimrods for not doing anything about it, at this stage nobody is going to be elevated from actually facing Roman unless they beat him. In the buildup, Knight stated how much of a bottler Roman was and that he only needed one shot to get the job done. Well, he's had his shot. I think Knight will keep his heat, but dudes star won't rise due to this defeat. Dude would have gotten even hotter if he actually did only need the one chance. Do you think LA Knight has peaked in WWE? Kayfabe wise, unless he wins the WWE/Universal title, then yes. Dude took on Roman and lost. The only way he can get any higher is by actually winning the straps. And it might be a long time before he gets another chance to do that with Roman being part time. Popularity wise? Perhaps, dude was already the most over babyface on the roster alongside Cody, it's hard to see how he gets to that next level except for actually going to the mountaintop.
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Post by Treklubj on Nov 5, 2023 22:28:31 GMT -5
Do you think LA Knight has peaked in WWE? Kayfabe wise, unless he wins the WWE/Universal title, then yes. Dude took on Roman and lost. The only way he can get any higher is by actually winning the straps. And it might be a long time before he gets another chance to do that with Roman being part time. Popularity wise? Perhaps, dude was already the most over babyface on the roster alongside Cody, it's hard to see how he gets to that next level except for actually going to the mountaintop. So, kayfabe-wise, you think he's peaked? He's never held a single title in WWE (much like Austin when he had all his failed attempts and was getting his ass handed to him by Bret Hart), but it's all downhill from here. I'm not sure why you feel his popularity and star-power will be diminished with the Roman loss. Not only did I give four current examples of that not happening but we actually had this same discussion in August. You basically said crowds would no longer buy Jey Uso as a main event-level guy and he would fall off after the Roman loss. I said neither of those things would happen. Nearly three months after the Summerslam loss, Jey is every bit the top of the card guy I said he was. Finally, I do think LA Knight will get to the "mountaintop." It took Austin 21 months from the Austin 3:16 promo (the turning point for him) to win the Heavyweight title. Knight didn't start really getting crowd support until maybe February of this year. He didn't need the title win this quick, especially with Cody - Roman 2 all but advertised for WM 40.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,671
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Post by Nosnorb on Nov 5, 2023 22:49:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure why you feel his popularity and star-power will be diminished with the Roman loss. Not only did I give four current examples of that not happening but we actually had this same discussion in August. You basically said crowds would no longer buy Jey Uso as a main event-level guy and he would fall off after the Roman loss. I said neither of those things would happen. Nearly three months after the Summerslam loss, Jey is every bit the top of the card guy I said he was. Because he said that he only needed one shot, and failed to win. He also lost via Bloodline interferance, which after 3 years, he should have saw coming from a mile away and actually taken steps to counter it. Instead, he did nothing.
Those four examples are still over, but not sure if they are any more over than they were before losing to Roman, Kevin Owens is now back on Smackdown which more or less has no singles title to fight for with Paul and Reigns being champions.
Jey Uso has got the nickname "Main Event", but right now, Jey Uso isn't booked like a main eventer. Hell, the dude hasn't had a singles match on PPV since leaving The Bloodline. He isn't a top of the card guy yet. Things could change though.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Nov 6, 2023 3:43:17 GMT -5
WWE need to review 1997 and see how Stone Cold flirted with the WWF title scene without ever having a championship match, and should have built LA Knight similarly Steve Austin challenged for the World title in a fatal 4-way and lost in 1997. He then went on to Wrestlemania where Bret Hart beat him so bad he passed out and damn near bled out. This was after Bret beat him at Survivor Series 1996. He tried to avenge all those Ls to the Hitman and the best he could do was pick up a DQ win. Austin challenged Undertaker for the World title in May and lost. Austin did manage to win a tag team title with Shawn Michaels which led to a match with HBK over who would be team captain. He couldn't even win that. In July, Austin was part of the team that lost to the Hart Foundation at Candian Stampede. Owen Hart broke his neck at Summerslam. Austin did manage to win I-C title though, thanks to the worst roll-up in history. Austin did manage to bounce back at the end of the year by beating Owen (he obviously couldn't wasn't on the level of the #1 Hart) and Rock (who wasn't close to being THE ROCK yet) to keep hold of the I-C belt. If Austin's 1997 had taken place today I'm pretty sure there would be a multi-page "Steve Austin is a Stone Cold bitch" thread on this board. Fair enough. I have no recollection of his pre-1998 title shots, and didn't bother to look it up.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Nov 6, 2023 4:46:32 GMT -5
They should do a racy storyline about him wanting to bang Maxxine Dupri. It could all end with him beating Gunther for the IC title somehow.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,671
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Post by Nosnorb on Nov 6, 2023 9:48:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure why you feel his popularity and star-power will be diminished with the Roman loss. Not only did I give four current examples of that not happening but we actually had this same discussion in August. You basically said crowds would no longer buy Jey Uso as a main event-level guy and he would fall off after the Roman loss. I said neither of those things would happen. Nearly three months after the Summerslam loss, Jey is every bit the top of the card guy I said he was. I think one of the biggest reasons for that is what happened to Drew McIntyre and Big E. Both of them lost to Roman, and dropped off afterwards. When you mention the Reign of Terror, the first thing that comes to mind for many fans isn't how it ended at the hands of Batista or how Benoit made Trips tap at MSG, but Katie Vick and the abominable Booker T feud. Sometimes the bad times stick out more than the good ones, and seeing McIntyre bottle it in Cardiff then sing Oasis songs was pretty painful and made him look like an absolute goober, and it took a long time for Drew to start to get his mojo back. I guess that's a big reason why there are such doubts over WWE keeping dudes hot after losing to Reigns. Sometimes getting burned sticks in the memory.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Nov 6, 2023 11:38:09 GMT -5
WWE need to review 1997 and see how Stone Cold flirted with the WWF title scene without ever having a championship match, and should have built LA Knight similarly Steve Austin challenged for the World title in a fatal 4-way and lost in 1997. He then went on to Wrestlemania where Bret Hart beat him so bad he passed out and damn near bled out. This was after Bret beat him at Survivor Series 1996. He tried to avenge all those Ls to the Hitman and the best he could do was pick up a DQ win. Austin challenged Undertaker for the World title in May and lost. Austin did manage to win a tag team title with Shawn Michaels which led to a match with HBK over who would be team captain. He couldn't even win that. In July, Austin was part of the team that lost to the Hart Foundation at Candian Stampede. Owen Hart broke his neck at Summerslam. Austin did manage to win I-C title though, thanks to the worst roll-up in history. Austin did manage to bounce back at the end of the year by beating Owen (he obviously couldn't wasn't on the level of the #1 Hart) and Rock (who wasn't close to being THE ROCK yet) to keep hold of the I-C belt. If Austin's 1997 had taken place today I'm pretty sure there would be a multi-page "Steve Austin is a Stone Cold bitch" thread on this board. Thinking of this scenario a bit more - Austin was in the title mix partly because of HBK losing his smile. His shots against Taker and at Fatal 4 Way aren't the same as trying to dethrone an established 1100+ day champion. 1997 hot potatoed the World Title, and had the feeling that anyone could become champion out of Hart, Austin, HBK, Sid, or Taker in the first quarter of the year. LA Knight needs a traditional build - conquer the mid card, ascend to the World championship a couple of years later.
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Post by polarbearpete on Nov 6, 2023 11:54:54 GMT -5
Steve Austin challenged for the World title in a fatal 4-way and lost in 1997. He then went on to Wrestlemania where Bret Hart beat him so bad he passed out and damn near bled out. This was after Bret beat him at Survivor Series 1996. He tried to avenge all those Ls to the Hitman and the best he could do was pick up a DQ win. Austin challenged Undertaker for the World title in May and lost. Austin did manage to win a tag team title with Shawn Michaels which led to a match with HBK over who would be team captain. He couldn't even win that. In July, Austin was part of the team that lost to the Hart Foundation at Candian Stampede. Owen Hart broke his neck at Summerslam. Austin did manage to win I-C title though, thanks to the worst roll-up in history. Austin did manage to bounce back at the end of the year by beating Owen (he obviously couldn't wasn't on the level of the #1 Hart) and Rock (who wasn't close to being THE ROCK yet) to keep hold of the I-C belt. If Austin's 1997 had taken place today I'm pretty sure there would be a multi-page "Steve Austin is a Stone Cold bitch" thread on this board. Thinking of this scenario a bit more - Austin was in the title mix partly because of HBK losing his smile. His shots against Taker and at Fatal 4 Way aren't the same as trying to dethrone an established 1100+ day champion. 1997 hot potatoed the World Title, and had the feeling that anyone could become champion out of Hart, Austin, HBK, Sid, or Taker in the first quarter of the year. LA Knight needs a traditional build - conquer the mid card, ascend to the World championship a couple of years later. He can still have the traditional build moving forward. Having one failed title shot early on in his run won’t derail him if they plan to actually push him moving forward. Him ending a 5-month Logan Paul US Title reign at Mania would be pretty big for him.
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Post by Topher is Human on Nov 6, 2023 16:56:54 GMT -5
No, no he’s right. Cena losing to Lesnar in 2003 completely destroyed his star.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Nov 6, 2023 17:01:40 GMT -5
I think comparisons to previous builds for top guys (Austin and Cena) are difficult because they received run of the mill title shots on monthly PPVs that weren't super hyped or anything. Getting a title shot back then wasn't necessarily a big deal. They just needed to rotate guys. No one saw Austin's April 1997 title shot as a potential crowning moment but they did see WrestleMania in that light. Roman's limited dates plus the modern day presentation (lots of video packages and hype behind every show) makes title shots nowadays more meaningful. Now you can always rebuild to another LA Knight title shot (same with Sami and Cody and Owens and Drew). But that doesn't take away from the fact that this was built as a potential big moment and he came up short. You may be able to reach the same height in terms of fan interest/anticipation or exceed it but that's never a guarantee.
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Post by schizo on Nov 6, 2023 17:11:43 GMT -5
I think comparisons to previous builds for top guys (Austin and Cena) are difficult because they received run of the mill title shots on monthly PPVs that weren't super hyped or anything. Getting a title shot back then wasn't necessarily a big deal. They just needed to rotate guys. No one saw Austin's April 1997 title shot as a potential crowning moment but they did see WrestleMania in that light. Roman's limited dates plus the modern day presentation (lots of video packages and hype behind every show) makes title shots nowadays more meaningful. Now you can always rebuild to another LA Knight title shot (same with Sami and Cody and Owens and Drew). But that doesn't take away from the fact that this was built as a potential big moment and he came up short. You may be able to reach the same height in terms of fan interest/anticipation or exceed it but that's never a guarantee. I don’t think alot of people expected Knight to win, that match felt like a test run to see if he can hang in a main event level and he definitely felt like he belonged there. He put on a good showing with Roman at the ppv and that was all that we could ask for right now. Roman was NOT going to drop the title now and I don’t think Knight is quite ready to win the big one quite yet. But he definitely look like a main event start out there. There has been plenty superstars who came up short in title matches before eventually winning the title. knight will be fine, he’ll still get loud pops out there, Knight will win the title eventually, and it’s going to be a glorious moment
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2023 17:18:22 GMT -5
It is not a guarantee Knight is ever winning the title...could and will he remain a upper mid card to main event guy? sure but You have Gunther ...potential Will Ospreay if they get him, a Roman babyface redemption run.
Like there are plenty of hoops that might keep it from happening it is no guarantee at all and that is why this match was so important because he is in his 40s now...the window for him is not a very wide open one and really there was nothing here that would have hurt Roman by losing and cementing Knight.
Someone pointed it out it could have been like Foley winning it from Rock...a brief moment in time that absoloutley cemented Foleys status as a main event player.
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