Would the face Powers of Pain done any better

[Milkman Norm]

Had they worked like the face Road Warriors in Crockett, running thru & dominating all but the top heel teams?

[chazraps]

Yes, ESPECIALLY with the Baron as their manager.

[Urn Anderson]

As a kid who watched WWF and only WWF at the time, so basically their perfect target audience, they would have definitely been over huge with me, and I would have loved the Baron if he would have stuck around long enough for me to have even noticed.

[Mozenrath]

Honestly, they probably could have done it. I actually was kind of surprised watching some old shows in that, Barbarian wasn't smooth, but he was fun, and Warlord, I get why he was Batista's favorite wrestler. He's actually pretty decent as far as big buff dudes went. I'd still give the two the outfits they got on breaking up, but keep the team together.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

I think they would've. They were over as faces and they had a great theme song that made them come off like bigger stars. Unfortunately it was dropped when they switched heels as it had too much of a face sound to it. I get the feeling they were supposed to be THE face team when they first came in as they were probably more marketable then Demolition in that they also had the face paint but had the more muscular superhero physiques similar to the Road Warriors. I think their lack of mic skills is what ultimately held them back and likely also played a part in their heel turn with Fuji switching to them. Demolition were much better talkers and didn't need a manager to do promos while the Powers of Pain did. They did have the Baron but I guess they didn't feel he working for some reason as he was dropped super quick.

[XIII]

I like the PoP more than the Road Warriors. Yeah they’d have been over huge.

Big dudes just bodying people always get over. Even Ryback got over doing it. lol

[willywonka666]

I wonder how long the WWF had been in talks with them, and the Road Warriors for that matter and I'm assuming their failure to at least secure the Road Warriors led to th creation of Demolition, but say demolition NEVER existed and the Powers came in when they did, how much bigger they could have been.

I completely lost interest when they split up.

[Milkman Norm]

Watching them playing face in peril to the Bolsheviks made it obvious to me that they really should have just demolished heels on the way to Demolition. Watching Volkoff attempting to get the heat on Warlord, and Warlord having either no interest or a limited understanding of babyface selling was bad.

[tafkaga]

Definitely. Fans were into big musclebound guys wrecking people. I don't see theme ever being Road Warriors or Demolition level though.

Demolition made up for their physical shortcomings with pure charisma, and the Road Warriors were just better athletes. Plus, Hawk was one of the best promos of his day, and PoP simply couldn't talk.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

Sept 20, 2023 11:51:19 GMT -5 Milkman Norm said:

Watching them playing face in peril to the Bolsheviks made it obvious to me that they really should have just demolished heels on the way to Demolition. Watching Volkoff attempting to get the heat on Warlord, and Warlord having either no interest or a limited understanding of babyface selling was bad.

I have no idea why but someone must have really loved the Powers of Pain and Bolshevik matches as they worked each other a ton after the Powers came in. Even into the fall after the Powers of Pain had destroyed them and beat them decisively in probably every major market including a big PPV at Summerslam they are still trying to push a "feud" between them on television.

I guess the reason was they were short on heel teams and for some reason they wanted to hold off on Demolition and Powers of Pain which makes no sense as they were going be opposing captains at Survivor Series so obviously that's what the plan was so I don't get why they felt the Powers had to waste more time with a JTTS team they had already destroyed countless times the previous three months. Only thing I can think of is they didn't want Demolition or Powers of Pain to job but I don't get why that would be problem as they could just do DQ and count out finishes like they would frequently do in that era when they wanted to keep everyone strong.

[Hit Girl]

They were always faces to me. Even as singles guys, they were never particularly heelish.

[Aceorton]

Sept 20, 2023 12:40:30 GMT -5 ThankGodForSidJustice said:

Sept 20, 2023 11:51:19 GMT -5 Milkman Norm said:

Watching them playing face in peril to the Bolsheviks made it obvious to me that they really should have just demolished heels on the way to Demolition. Watching Volkoff attempting to get the heat on Warlord, and Warlord having either no interest or a limited understanding of babyface selling was bad.

I have no idea why but someone must have really loved the Powers of Pain and Bolshevik matches as they worked each other a ton after the Powers came in. Even into the fall after the Powers of Pain had destroyed them and beat them decisively in probably every major market including a big PPV at Summerslam they are still trying to push a "feud" between them on television.

I guess the reason was they were short on heel teams and for some reason they wanted to hold off on Demolition and Powers of Pain which makes no sense as they were going be opposing captains at Survivor Series so obviously that's what the plan was so I don't get why they felt the Powers had to waste more time with a JTTS team they had already destroyed countless times the previous three months. Only thing I can think of is they didn't want Demolition or Powers of Pain to job but I don't get why that would be problem as they could just do DQ and count out finishes like they would frequently do in that era when they wanted to keep everyone strong.

I understand them waiting to put them directly against Demolition on TV (there's usually a buildup period for newcomers before they get title matches -- look at LOD, who were around nearly a YEAR before they started chasing the Nasty Boys for the titles in 1991). Maybe the PoP-Bolsheviks overload did come down to a lack of heel teams for the PoP to destroy, as you said. The Conquistadors got squashed by the PoP here and there, I believe. But the Brain Busters were new, so they were gonna be protected. The Rougeaus were still relatively fresh as heels and had plenty of stuff to do before they fell down the card a year later -- don't wanna bury them, either. The PoP-Demolition double turn and hastened title program was probably out of sheer necessity because of that.

I wonder if they'd considered bringing PoP in as heels (which they had been in the NWA) and feeding them the Young Stallions, the Bulldogs and the Bees (who could have been kept together a while longer explicitly for this purpose). Then you just need to flip Demolition at the right time.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

Sept 21, 2023 13:48:20 GMT -5 Aceorton said:

Sept 20, 2023 12:40:30 GMT -5 ThankGodForSidJustice said:

I have no idea why but someone must have really loved the Powers of Pain and Bolshevik matches as they worked each other a ton after the Powers came in. Even into the fall after the Powers of Pain had destroyed them and beat them decisively in probably every major market including a big PPV at Summerslam they are still trying to push a "feud" between them on television.

I guess the reason was they were short on heel teams and for some reason they wanted to hold off on Demolition and Powers of Pain which makes no sense as they were going be opposing captains at Survivor Series so obviously that's what the plan was so I don't get why they felt the Powers had to waste more time with a JTTS team they had already destroyed countless times the previous three months. Only thing I can think of is they didn't want Demolition or Powers of Pain to job but I don't get why that would be problem as they could just do DQ and count out finishes like they would frequently do in that era when they wanted to keep everyone strong.

I understand them waiting to put them directly against Demolition on TV (there's usually a buildup period for newcomers before they get title matches -- look at LOD, who were around nearly a YEAR before they started chasing the Nasty Boys for the titles in 1991). Maybe the PoP-Bolsheviks overload did come down to a lack of heel teams for the PoP to destroy, as you said. The Conquistadors got squashed by the PoP here and there, I believe. But the Brain Busters were new, so they were gonna be protected. The Rougeaus were still relatively fresh as heels and had plenty of stuff to do before they fell down the card a year later -- don't wanna bury them, either. The PoP-Demolition double turn and hastened title program was probably out of sheer necessity because of that.

I wonder if they'd considered bringing PoP in as heels (which they had been in the NWA) and feeding them the Young Stallions, the Bulldogs and the Bees (who could have been kept together a while longer explicitly for this purpose). Then you just need to flip Demolition at the right time.

Yeah the depth of the tag division wasn't really that great in the summer of 88 with the loss of teams like Strike Force and the Islanders. Fortunately around the same time the Rockers came in and then a little later the Brain Busters in the fall so it wasn't an issue any more by Survivor Series time. I think the Islanders would've been a good opponent for face Powers of Pain and would've been a nice way to bridge the bridge the gap between the Bolsheviks and Demolition.

I don't think being brought in as heels was considered with Demolition being heels at the time. Having two big powerful teams who wear face point both on the heel side doesn't seem like something they would do as they would be too simlar.

[johnnyk9]

I liked their team

[Squirrel Master]

If the PoP were going over LoD convincingly from time to time, yes. But that would require Hawk to sell, and that would be a matter of paying LOD plenty to keep their egos in check.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

For a while, but after you've fed everyone to them, then what? You've got a dozen teams who've been made to look second rate and Vince isn't going to let them go elsewhere to freshen up. Destroying everyone has a limited shelf life as a booking technique and putting guys who are not exactly work rate gold against new guys their size so they can 'finally meet their match' rarely produces anything watchable.

They'd eventually have to meet the real LOD like Demolition did, and end up heading to split and jobbertown same as they did without the mega push.

[Milkman Norm]

It would have been interesting once Tully & Arn came in, if the PoP could have been convinced to work with them the way the Road Warriors did. Because as much as Hawk & Animal would no sell they did understand its importance at key times.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

Sept 25, 2023 10:55:29 GMT -5 Milkman Norm said:

It would have been interesting once Tully & Arn came in, if the PoP could have been convinced to work with them the way the Road Warriors did. Because as much as Hawk & Animal would no sell they did understand its importance at key times.

I don't think it would've been as good as Warlord and Barbarian while they had really good power offense that Arn and Tully could bump around for, they were probably even worse sellers then Hawk and Animal. In the many Bolshevik matches that made tape any time either has to play face in peril and sell it comes off as very awkward. While Hawk gets for a lot of crap for his no selling and rightfully deserved, he could also sell pretty well when it came time for the face in peril segment. I would say in probably like 90% of LOD matches Hawk played the face in peril and Animal got the hot tag. So oddly of the two Hawk both no sold more and sold more at the same time.

Then again maybe the PoP not being good sellers would've mattered since most of the face teams in WWF didn't sell much for Arn and Tully anyways. Demolition and even the Hart Foundation pretty much ate them up and gave them very little. I wonder it was some kind of WWF pride thing where they didn't want one of the big teams coming in from the #2 promotion and getting over at their expense.

[thecrusherwi]

Sept 25, 2023 13:40:57 GMT -5 ThankGodForSidJustice said:

Sept 25, 2023 10:55:29 GMT -5 Milkman Norm said:

It would have been interesting once Tully & Arn came in, if the PoP could have been convinced to work with them the way the Road Warriors did. Because as much as Hawk & Animal would no sell they did understand its importance at key times.

I don't think it would've been as good as Warlord and Barbarian while they had really good power offense that Arn and Tully could bump around for, they were probably even worse sellers then Hawk and Animal. In the many Bolshevik matches that made tape any time either has to play face in peril and sell it comes off as very awkward. While Hawk gets for a lot of crap for his no selling and rightfully deserved, he could also sell pretty well when it came time for the face in peril segment. I would say in probably like 90% of LOD matches Hawk played the face in peril and Animal got the hot tag. So oddly of the two Hawk both no sold more and sold more at the same time.

Then again maybe the PoP not being good sellers would've mattered since most of the face teams in WWF didn't sell much for Arn and Tully anyways. Demolition and even the Hart Foundation pretty much ate them up and gave them very little. I wonder it was some kind of WWF pride thing where they didn't want one of the big teams coming in from the #2 promotion and getting over at their expense.

I think it was just the way the WWF used non-monster heels in that era. Even protected main event heels like Ted Dibiase (especially early in his run) and Randy Savage spend a ton of time in their matches getting bounced from one corner of the ring to the other.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

Sept 25, 2023 16:16:49 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

Sept 25, 2023 13:40:57 GMT -5 ThankGodForSidJustice said:

I don't think it would've been as good as Warlord and Barbarian while they had really good power offense that Arn and Tully could bump around for, they were probably even worse sellers then Hawk and Animal. In the many Bolshevik matches that made tape any time either has to play face in peril and sell it comes off as very awkward. While Hawk gets for a lot of crap for his no selling and rightfully deserved, he could also sell pretty well when it came time for the face in peril segment. I would say in probably like 90% of LOD matches Hawk played the face in peril and Animal got the hot tag. So oddly of the two Hawk both no sold more and sold more at the same time.

Then again maybe the PoP not being good sellers would've mattered since most of the face teams in WWF didn't sell much for Arn and Tully anyways. Demolition and even the Hart Foundation pretty much ate them up and gave them very little. I wonder it was some kind of WWF pride thing where they didn't want one of the big teams coming in from the #2 promotion and getting over at their expense.

I think it was just the way the WWF used non-monster heels in that era. Even protected main event heels like Ted Dibiase (especially early in his run) and Randy Savage spend a ton of time in their matches getting bounced from one corner of the ring to the other.

Yeah but at the same time guys like Savage and Dibiase would definitely "get their s**t in" as well where they would a lot of offense and heat on the face for a good chunk of time in the middle portion of the match in between getting bounced around in the early stages of the match and towards the finish after the face would make the comeback. So it was still pretty much 50-50. With the Brain Busters in a lot of their matches it felt more like 80-20 in favor of the faces. It would usually be the faces kick their ass for like the first ten minutes straight, then a very short face in peril segment where they maybe get like a minute offense, then right into the hot tag where they get beat up some more before the finish in which they would either lose or cheat and win.

When they were facing the Rockers it was different as those matches followed the more usual give and take formula. However the Rockers were the small underdog face team so them dominating wouldn't have made sense.