John Cena, “The Greatest of All Time”

[fallandprayz]

Who thinks John Cena is the “Greatest of All Time”

If you disagree, please state reasons

Thank you.

[mj0mn0m]

Sept 23, 2023 13:29:32 GMT -5 fallandprayz said:

Who thinks John Cena is the “Greatest of All Time”

If you disagree, please state reasons

Thank you.

I was born in '92. Really do see Cena as a bigger deal than Hogan, Austin/Rock or Reigns. 😎✌️ ... hated the guy during my youth, but all in all every fave that he beat (Angle, Christian, Jericho) got their dues in AEW/TNA, not that big of a deal in retrospective.

[XIII]

He’s the greatest of all time in the same way that other sports people are. In 20 years someone else will be the greatest of all time.

[ChitownKnight]

Sept 23, 2023 13:42:50 GMT -5 mj0mn0m said:

Sept 23, 2023 13:29:32 GMT -5 fallandprayz said:

Who thinks John Cena is the “Greatest of All Time”

If you disagree, please state reasons

Thank you.

I was born in '92. Really do see Cena as a bigger deal than Hogan, Austin/Rock or Reigns. 😎✌️ ... hated the guy during my youth, but all in all every fave that he beat (Angle, Christian, Jericho) got their dues in AEW/TNA, not that big of a deal in retrospective.

Another guy here born in 92. He drew me in with his rap character. I was estatic when he made it to the top by beating JBL (who was a great foil) and the year after when he made HHH tap out in my hometown of Chicago. When he went PG, I didn’t like the character as much but I still respected him. I agree with the assessment of him being the GOAT. He probably made more money for wwe than any other big star due to his longevity, probably had the most successful title defenses clean, 16 time world champ.

[Rudy Gobert Fadeaway]

Dude got stabbed by a guy named Aaron. Wouldn't let that happen to me tho.

[Squirrel Master]

How can anyone say that, when in fact Terry Funk is the GOAT?

[tagteammatchplaya]

Madcap Moss is the greatest of all time, but WWE threw all that away

[Zombie Mod]

he's the greatest wwe company man of all time.

very few pr screw ups, no major scandals (as of yet, there are a few accusations of him being unfaithful as a partner and a few accusations of backstage politics but other than those we've heard nothing that would paint him as a shitty human as a lot of wrestlers have turned out to be.) survived the ridiculous grind the schedule of being the face of the company brought without cracking under the pressure, very rarely criticises the company even with a foot and 95% of the other out of the door, and managed to add to his act as and when he needed to.

after the nightmares of Hogan, Warrior, HBK, Nash, and others Cena must have been vince's dream star come to life.


the greatest wrestler of all time? it's far too subjective to say.

there are wrestlers who were/are crap in the ring but could have the live audience reacting to them almost instantly and how they wanted them to react.
there are wrestlers who were/are absolute work rate beasts that could physically turn someone into a pretzel but couldn't connect with a live audience.
there are wrestlers who were terrible in the ring but make insanely great coaches/trainers.
there are wrestlers who if the timing/luck had been right for them could have been seen as greats but just didnt get that chance.

everyone has a list of greats that will never match with everyone 100%.

[Gerard Gerard]

The guy leverages what could’ve been very easily a failed main babyface run into being an entirely unique marquee act that could serve as your top baby or top heel as the situation demanded. Not to shit on the guy, but it’s telling they tried to run the same shtick with Reigns for years and couldn’t get there, which is a mighty testament to what Cena brings to the table as a top-line act.

That’s not me defending how utterly insipid the product could be under Cena, just that he was like anyone else when it came to the dance.

[Chiral]

My personal pros and cons to Big Match John:

Pros
+His Make A Wish work is incredible
+One of the hardest workers ever
+His matches at their peak had a big fight feel with a unique crowd energy that can't really be replicated
+A hefty amount of all timer matches

Cons
-Past a certain point in his career his promos stopped being coherent and just were a series of fourth wall break "OHHHH" lines that nobody could possibly respond to in the narrative, started around when he began doing the "[takes cap off, rubs head] a fine speech..." promos, which helped make a lot of his story work feel completely pointless
-His character was insanely inconsistent
-At his peak, WWE booked him to be the only person that mattered and rarely let anyone get close to his level, a booking style they still use today to the shows' detriment
-Inversely once he hit part time WWE decided he was basically a jobber so he never really got to put anyone over in a meaningful way cuz he basically loses to everyone nowadays
-"Face in narrative but give the audience breadcrumbs to being a heel" booking just sucks ass overall and is damaging to onscreen storytelling in any company and Big Match is no different IMO
-Bad at selling
-Maybe too much of a company guy to the point of feeling stooge-y at times in interviews and such

[Tiger Millionaire]

For WWF/E it's Hogan, Rock, Austin, Bruno, and then you can stick Cena there; which is impressive.

[CMWaters]

Sept 23, 2023 16:10:21 GMT -5 Tiger Millionaire said:

For WWF/E it's Hogan, Rock, Austin, Bruno, and then you can stick Cena there; which is impressive.

2K23 agrees with you (though they had to pick between Austin and Rock and went with the former).

[Natural Born Farmer]

At this point yeah, I think he is.

Best matches, best promos, best character.  Had an enormous impact upon WWE's fortunes during a downtime for the business, and transitioned that into a surprisingly successful acting character, but he's still willing to give back.

His feuds with Edge, Styles, and Punk are among the best things WWE has ever done.

His Make-A-Wish work has been invaluable in helping to promote the brand.

That he never had a proper heel run as the top guy was maybe a mistake, but I think history has shown his instincts were correct.

[Hit Girl]

Hogan

[Jindrak Mark]

The greatest of all-time is basically whoever's the current biggest legend on good terms with the company and willing to appear semi-regularly. Or in the 90s they would say it was Andre after he died because they couldn't say Bruno because he wasn't on good terms or Hogan because he was in WCW.

In WWE kayfabe I think there's 4-5 guys you could make an argument for. Bruno, Hogan, Cena and probably Roman now for being the top guys for 8-12 years each. Roman gets points taken off for being a heel during his peak though unlike the others so he wasn't winning all his matches cleanly.

And even though he wasn't around as long his sheer popularity means Austin has to be in the conversation too. Rock's run might have been short too but he became a huge celebrity outside wrestling and returned years later to break all-time PPV records. At various points over the years I think they've also touted Taker/HBK as greatest but that's more for loyalty/longevity for Taker and in-ring prowess for HBK.

[government mule]

Because Bruce Hart is.

Sorry I meant to say Bret.

[Jaws the Shark]

No.

I will preface this by saying I think he's a very good and underrated worker - he got a lot of criticism in the mid/late-2000s about his actual work from a lot of people, including me, that in hindsight was very unfair and really related more to his booking - and did an admirable job of being the public face of WWE through what was a pretty difficult period for the company in a lot of ways.

But he was also on top in a period when WWE and the industry in general was in a slump, and during his career as a full-timer never had the crossover appeal that some others before him had to make wrestling relevant again: for example, he was a film star not because there was interest in him from outside of the wrestling bubble, but because WWE made films for him to star in so they could say he was. I also think that while no top babyface is universally revered, his divisiveness is a big mark against him. In terms of measurable statistics I believe he's not even in the top ten box office draws, he's not the top merchandise seller, he's up there as one of the biggest pay-per-view draws but that's a relatively new (IE, late eighties and onwards) metric to go by and so discounts a lot of massive draws, and it coincides with the start of the WWE and Wrestlemania brands often being used to sell shows.

But this isn't a knock by any means, he was the right man at the time. Like Sting in WCW in the nineties, he was a Mr. Reliable top babyface and probably ranks as one of the most valuable wrestlers to a company in history, and huge respect to him for that.

[Medium Rare, Trash Just Like U]

He's not mine, but I won't argue with anyone who thinks he is, especially if they grew up during his rise like I did during Austin and Rock's. He has a pretty strong case with his resume.

[stoptheclocks]

I think it's Hogan also. But Cena is definitely alongside Austin and The Rock just below.

[koreycaskets]

Nah Gigi Dolin is the Greatest of all time but Cen a can be third under her and Bruce Hart.