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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2023 14:09:38 GMT -5
Hassan had some good points, but he always said them in ways that made him seem like an asshole, he was definitely a heel. He also was played by an Italian-American. This is part of the more difficult argument though...Does being a part of a demographic give you the right to offend others (within and out of it) just because something doesn't offend you or you are trying to prove a point? It's all in perception and i think this story could have been told a simpler way.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Oct 11, 2023 14:10:45 GMT -5
but didn't muhammad hassan start off as a character that wasn't a terrorist at all, playing off the uncomfortable promos towards a judging audience that also now confirms that yes, the timing was on purpose lmao Yes but in a way that made him a bad guy. Like he was the bad guy for being the victim of racism and weren't using it to make the audience think about their prejudices or feel bad or anything, but specifically to have people booing someone who didn't want to be stereotyped. It was ugly as shit in how they played it, and then they made him a terrorist anyway so f***ing.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Oct 11, 2023 14:12:47 GMT -5
He also was played by an Italian-American. This is part of the more difficult argument though...Does being a part of a demographic give you the right to offend others (within and out of it) just because something doesn't offend you or you are trying to prove a point? It's all in perception and i think this story could have been told a simpler way. I mean I think anytime you are going to do a story involving someone's race/religion/gender/sexuality, it is better to have the person involved actually representing that group. Obviously a story can still offend or be in poor taste independent of that. But I think having someone like Max who is Jewish and has personal experiences as a Jewish man and has actively stood up to anti-semitism makes me more willing to see it play out than if it wasn't someone who was Jewish portraying a Jew.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 11, 2023 14:14:32 GMT -5
It’s all so unnecessary at this point. The angle didn’t need it, no-one remotely buys Juice Robinson as a threat to MJF. If you want to go down this route? Terrible timing aside, OK. But save it for someone who won’t get beaten and then shoved down the card again a week later. Someone who won't get shoved down the card again probably isn't going to agree to have their reputation tainted by being the dude who agreed to cut a promo with those kind of overtones.
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Oct 11, 2023 14:14:42 GMT -5
but didn't muhammad hassan start off as a character that wasn't a terrorist at all, playing off the uncomfortable promos towards a judging audience that also now confirms that yes, the timing was on purpose lmao Yes but in a way that made him a bad guy. Like he was the bad guy for being the victim of racism and weren't using it to make the audience think about their prejudices or feel bad or anything, but specifically to have people booing someone who didn't want to be stereotyped. It was ugly as shit in how they played it, and then they made him a terrorist anyway so f***ing. they never even gave us a reason why he randomly became a terrorist anyways, regardless of UPN getting him axed and fired after that shit did they?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2023 14:14:58 GMT -5
This is part of the more difficult argument though...Does being a part of a demographic give you the right to offend others (within and out of it) just because something doesn't offend you or you are trying to prove a point? It's all in perception and i think this story could have been told a simpler way. I mean I think anytime you are going to do a story involving someone's race/religion/gender/sexuality, it is better to have the person involved actually representing that group. Obviously a story can still offend or be in poor taste independent of that. But I think having someone like Max who is Jewish and has personal experiences as a Jewish man and has actively stood up to anti-semitism makes me more willing to see it play out than if it wasn't someone who was Jewish portraying a Jew. I wholeheartedly agree regarding the authenticity of it I guess it was just more of a hypothetical of when do you overstep your own lines?
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 11, 2023 14:18:16 GMT -5
Yes but in a way that made him a bad guy. Like he was the bad guy for being the victim of racism and weren't using it to make the audience think about their prejudices or feel bad or anything, but specifically to have people booing someone who didn't want to be stereotyped. It was ugly as shit in how they played it, and then they made him a terrorist anyway so f***ing. they never even gave us a reason why he randomly became a terrorist anyways, regardless of UPN getting him axed and fired after that shit did they? It seemed like they were trying to go for a "YOU made me do this! I tried to be reasonable, but YOU wouldn't let me!" thing. But then Vince got impatient and skipped from A to Tasteless without bothering with anything in-between
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Oct 11, 2023 14:18:35 GMT -5
I mean I think anytime you are going to do a story involving someone's race/religion/gender/sexuality, it is better to have the person involved actually representing that group. Obviously a story can still offend or be in poor taste independent of that. But I think having someone like Max who is Jewish and has personal experiences as a Jewish man and has actively stood up to anti-semitism makes me more willing to see it play out than if it wasn't someone who was Jewish portraying a Jew. I wholeheartedly agree regarding the authenticity of it I guess it was just more of a hypothetical of when do you overstep your own lines? I don't think the idea is that Max wasn't offended by it, it's more that Max was deeply offended by it and wanted to tell a story on television where he is able to stand up to antisemitic bullying in a way that he wasn't able to as a kid. The question is more whether and to what extent it's appropriate to depict such overtly offensive stuff on a professional wrestling show, where the whole idea is to blur the lines between reality and fiction, as opposed to a fully scripted TV show like Breaking Bad or something.
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Oct 11, 2023 14:19:43 GMT -5
they never even gave us a reason why he randomly became a terrorist anyways, regardless of UPN getting him axed and fired after that shit did they? It seemed like they were trying to go for a "YOU made me do this! I tried to be reasonable, but YOU wouldn't let me!" thing. But then Vince got impatient and skipped from A to Tasteless without bothering with anything in-between crazy shit. i still remember the ticker at the bottom of the screen the entire night with UPN apologizing to the viewers for what happens on the show later and sitting there as a child thinking "hmm can't be that bad" as someone who didn't really have internet to read the spoilers then it happened and none of us could watch the show for months. huzzah! great times. he deserved better lol
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Oct 11, 2023 14:20:56 GMT -5
3LW remains relevant more than 20 years after the fact. I, I don't mind (ha) What people say or do (nah, nah) But I, I do mind What you believe is true You are the only one Getting all my love Cuz what they do (what they do) Ain't A-E-W Playas, they gonna play And haters, they gonna hate Ballers, they gonna ball And carnies, they gonna carn That ain't got nothin' to do With me and you That's the way it is That's the way it is Yeah I gotta be honest doing a fun ha ha song rewrite edit about someone wanting to do a storyline where they get a chance to dramatize and overcome the racist bullying they experienced as a kid is really, really gross. Whatever you didn't like with it, there's ways to be respectful in that dislike, but what MJF is working through is also rooted in the antisemitism he's experienced and I don't think it's a justifiable line to walk where you slam the mere occurrence of fictional characters doing something as inexcusable to put on TV and then go rewriting a 2001 R&B song to express your discontent with someone's earnest efforts to work through their trauma in their art.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Oct 11, 2023 14:21:24 GMT -5
I still think it was a mistake and that they should probably reconsider how they're approaching it over the next few weeks. That said, I appreciate MJF's passion. If they pull it off and it actually goes well, it's definitely something that would be remembered forever.
I just don't see how they power through in the current climate without attracting both valid and bad faith criticism that ultimately causes AEW more harm than good. It just feels like he's playing with fire. Tony liked the tweet, so I don't know that they're going to change course unless advertisers or WBD give them a call. I just don't want to see the company get dragged into stuff even if they have the best of intentions.
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Post by mo on Oct 11, 2023 14:21:34 GMT -5
Yes but in a way that made him a bad guy. Like he was the bad guy for being the victim of racism and weren't using it to make the audience think about their prejudices or feel bad or anything, but specifically to have people booing someone who didn't want to be stereotyped. It was ugly as shit in how they played it, and then they made him a terrorist anyway so f***ing. they never even gave us a reason why he randomly became a terrorist anyways, regardless of UPN getting him axed and fired after that shit did they? Because Vince McMahon doesn’t know how to do subtlety. I’m sure he thought it was brilliant storytelling.
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Oct 11, 2023 14:21:42 GMT -5
It’s all so unnecessary at this point. The angle didn’t need it, no-one remotely buys Juice Robinson as a threat to MJF. If you want to go down this route? Terrible timing aside, OK. But save it for someone who won’t get beaten and then shoved down the card again a week later. Someone who won't get shoved down the card again probably isn't going to agree to have their reputation tainted by being the dude who agreed to cut a promo with those kind of overtones. We don’t know that. TV time, biggest promo of his career and a controversial storyline that’ll get a lot of attention..not blaming him for not turning that down. But he’s still behind Jay White and is an obvious stepping stone to MJF vs Jay. When MJF inevitably beats him he’ll go back down the pecking order. Not saying he’ll turn into Joey Janella, but if they really needed to do this it needs to be for The Number One Heel, and that ain’t Juice.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2023 14:28:08 GMT -5
This is also starting to make bigger press now unfortunately
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Post by stoptheclocks on Oct 11, 2023 14:32:28 GMT -5
This is also starting to make bigger press now unfortunately Yeah whatever MJF was aiming for, this is done.
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Oct 11, 2023 14:32:30 GMT -5
they never even gave us a reason why he randomly became a terrorist anyways, regardless of UPN getting him axed and fired after that shit did they? Because Vince McMahon doesn’t know how to do subtlety. I’m sure he thought it was brilliant storytelling. i'm not saying you're wrong but without these last few months, declaring MJF is subtle would've been f***ing hilarious lmao.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 11, 2023 14:35:16 GMT -5
Someone who won't get shoved down the card again probably isn't going to agree to have their reputation tainted by being the dude who agreed to cut a promo with those kind of overtones. We don’t know that. TV time, biggest promo of his career and a controversial storyline that’ll get a lot of attention..he’s still behind Jay White and is an obvious stepping stone to MJF vs Jay. When MJF inevitably beats him he’ll go back down the pecking order. Not saying he’ll turn into Joey Janella, but if they really needed to do this it needs to be on The Number One Heel, and that ain’t Juice. I still don't think someone with more upward mobility would agree to it. Example : Swerve (he's the only guy besides Jay I can think of being pushed towards "Top Heel" status right now, unless you want to count Ospreay who isn't there every week). He's got too much to lose to risk on being the guy who agreed to cut an anti-semitic promo.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 11, 2023 14:37:37 GMT -5
they never even gave us a reason why he randomly became a terrorist anyways, regardless of UPN getting him axed and fired after that shit did they? It seemed like they were trying to go for a "YOU made me do this! I tried to be reasonable, but YOU wouldn't let me!" thing. But then Vince got impatient and skipped from A to Tasteless without bothering with anything in-between There was. The one promo they cut afterwards (which was only on the Internet) was then just doing the same shit they always did. You don't hate me because I'm a jerk. You hate me because you are a racist you racist. "How do you know that they were Muslims if they were in ski masks!?!?" Was a direct quote.
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 11, 2023 14:40:00 GMT -5
Hassan had some good points, but he always said them in ways that made him seem like an asshole, he was definitely a heel. He also was played by an Italian-American. Yep, this is the biggie, and one of the biggest differences. The coin thing is also specifically something that genuinely happened to MJF, not some ripped-from-the-headlines thing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2023 14:48:14 GMT -5
This is also starting to make bigger press now unfortunately All I can say is, good luck AEW. Was this stupid and tone-deaf? Yes That said, the unwanted attention is not good for this company, especially since I believe this was not anyone's intentions.
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