|
|
Post by ChitownKnight on Dec 1, 2023 12:40:23 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by The Rick Jericho on Dec 1, 2023 12:44:39 GMT -5
John Cena.
Youtube Generation. His clips, matches and highlights are all available all over the place and in HD quality.
Make-a-wish. Blows every other person out of the water.
Super Cena. Never seen anything like it before or after.
Accolades. He's won some titles here and there.
In 20 years John Cena will probably be even bigger when we look back at him, while 20 years from no one will care about Flair or he will be known as "that crazy old guy" if he's still around.
|
|
|
|
Post by nickcave on Dec 1, 2023 12:45:50 GMT -5
Depends on generation but the longer Flair remains on TV the more he diminishes, about the last amount of cultural cred he has is rap artists like to name drop him but that's it
|
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Dec 1, 2023 12:46:35 GMT -5
No one's done as great a job of tarnishing Ric Flair's legacy as Flair himself.
|
|
john84
Fry's dog Seymour
Proud Father of 3 :)
Posts: 24,299 
|
Post by john84 on Dec 1, 2023 12:50:24 GMT -5
As much as I hate the Super Cena crap, I'll go with Cena especially since Ric has damaged his legacy over the years IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zombie Mod on Dec 1, 2023 13:53:41 GMT -5
all depends on what comes out in the future.
there could be all sorts of shady stuff about Cena we have no clue about (very unlikely considering how much scrutiny famous people are under these days.) like he could kick kittens and puppies in his free time or put the milk in first when making a cup of tea (yes I know you heathens are out there.)
also there could be more shady stuff come out about flair that few knew about.
|
|
|
|
Post by simplydurhamcalling on Dec 1, 2023 14:08:50 GMT -5
Legacy within wrestling probably Flair, in spite of all the crap that comes out about him those within the business still take up for him, refer to him as the GOAT etc.
In pop culture probably Cena.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jindrak Mark on Dec 1, 2023 14:13:44 GMT -5
As a hip-hop fan I think they're the two most referenced wrestlers in songs. Weirdly with Flair it mostly only started in the past 5-10 years. The Ric Flair Drip song was obviously a big deal. And I swear I've heard some variation of "call me John Cena because you can't see me" or something along those lines dozens of times. Drake just name-dropped him in a new song a few weeks ago too.
I think it would be closer 10-15 years ago. Cena clears him now though. He hosted SNL which only Hogan and Rock did. He's starred in hit movies. He's the star of his own mainstream TV show. Even the "and his name is John Cena!" meme is still big on social media despite being years old now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Instant Classic on Dec 1, 2023 14:37:06 GMT -5
Strictly just wrestling, Ric Flair.
|
|
tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,952
|
Post by tirtefaa on Dec 1, 2023 15:54:30 GMT -5
No one's done as great a job of tarnishing Ric Flair's legacy as Flair himself. Yeah, I mean if we're subtracting points for being an embarrassment to themselves, then Flair has to lose a ton of points there. If I were pointing to accolades within the business, then I would say that Flair wins out. Not because of world titles or anything, but moreso that he was 'the guy' no matter where he went, whereas Cena has only been a WWE guy for the entirety of his career, booked under one guy and BY one guy. I'm not saying that Cena couldn't be 'the guy' elsewhere, because he certainly could be if he wanted. To me, it's the lack of chances that was taken with Cena that really will always hurt him in my eyes. I can look at his 2005-2017 and despite a rotating door of feuds, not much ever really changed with who he was, and it all really blends together for better or worse. I know some people like him for this, but to me I always wished he was a little more ambitious with how he presented himself since while I never doubted his workrate, the material itself got very repetitive and didn't endear itself well when you're watching a weekly program for a decade. That being said, Ric becoming a parody of himself is just one of the saddest things ever, but he gets absolutely no sympathy since he'd likely try to find a way to cash that out. |
|
MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,990
|
Post by MolotovMocktail on Dec 2, 2023 1:19:39 GMT -5
I recently had a coworker who had no idea who Ric Flair was. Cena is like Hogan, Austin and Rock where even if you know absolutely nothing about pro wrestling, at least know his name and what he looks like.
|
|
|
|
Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Dec 2, 2023 1:36:47 GMT -5
Strictly just wrestling, Ric Flair. 100% Especially if you grew up in the 80's. No one could touch him. |
|
|
|
Post by HIM on Dec 2, 2023 2:05:26 GMT -5
In pro wrestling it's sadly Flair and that's purely because he's got 30 extra years on Cena as a wrestler. Outside of pro wrestling it's Cena. Cena's crossed over, more younger people know Cena as more older people pass away, Cena's got the whole meme thing and he's also in a lot more current things than Flair due to him being big in Hollywood these days.
|
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 2, 2023 4:42:02 GMT -5
As a hip-hop fan I think they're the two most referenced wrestlers in songs. Weirdly with Flair it mostly only started in the past 5-10 years. The Ric Flair Drip song was obviously a big deal. And I swear I've heard some variation of "call me John Cena because you can't see me" or something along those lines dozens of times. Drake just name-dropped him in a new song a few weeks ago too. I think it would be closer 10-15 years ago. Cena clears him now though. He hosted SNL which only Hogan and Rock did. He's starred in hit movies. He's the star of his own mainstream TV show. Even the "and his name is John Cena!" meme is still big on social media despite being years old now. Don't forget one of his movies had an Oscar Nomination...  No one's done as great a job of tarnishing Ric Flair's legacy as Flair himself. Yeah, I mean if we're subtracting points for being an embarrassment to themselves, then Flair has to lose a ton of points there. If I were pointing to accolades within the business, then I would say that Flair wins out. Not because of world titles or anything, but moreso that he was 'the guy' no matter where he went, whereas Cena has only been a WWE guy for the entirety of his career, booked under one guy and BY one guy. I'm not saying that Cena couldn't be 'the guy' elsewhere, because he certainly could be if he wanted. To me, it's the lack of chances that was taken with Cena that really will always hurt him in my eyes. I can look at his 2005-2017 and despite a rotating door of feuds, not much ever really changed with who he was, and it all really blends together for better or worse. I know some people like him for this, but to me I always wished he was a little more ambitious with how he presented himself since while I never doubted his workrate, the material itself got very repetitive and didn't endear itself well when you're watching a weekly program for a decade. Cena could easily have walked into any company in the middle of his main event run and immediately would have been treated like a big deal though. Flair was treated like a big deal because he was the Nature Boy and a multi time NWA champion... it's pretty comparable to being a multi-time world champion and The Ace of one of if not the Biggest Wrestling Promotion in the world. and if you're talking repetitive Material you're comparing him to the king of that with Ric Flair... hell the WWE's 2000 style of everyone has signature spots that must be in every match is literally taken right out Flair's playbook. |
|
UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sponsorisé par St. Michel Choco Chip Madeleines/NyonsOlive Tapenade Noir/Pâté de Campagne/Cigarettes
Posts: 16,347 
|
Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Dec 2, 2023 7:17:30 GMT -5
this is a tough one because flair has actively been seemingly intent on destroying his legacy for a while and Cena came up in a time where media relevancy changed completely but I think i'd still go Flair begrudgingly.
|
|
|
|
Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Dec 2, 2023 11:10:59 GMT -5
People don't understand that Flair has generational viewers of different varieties. He came up through Charlotte and was majorly over in the Carolinas when wrestling was a larger deal locally and found that success as NWA Champion touring the country whether he went to St. Louis, Florida, Georgia or anywhere he defended, even on Memphis TV he was a huge deal.
When Crockett went National, he became a cable star and big deal to even more vieweres watching on TBS and going to the shows. In the WWF when he jumped he was treated as a major deal from Day 1 that all the wrestlers were insecure about because of his status and that carried over when he came back to WCW and grew even larger in his mid 90s run and beyond.
Did Flair stay too long? Probably but people will overlook the negatives for what he did for them.
Cena has an audience that grew up on WWE and whose parents know about him but will there kids? Will John Cena be just an actor to the upcoming generation or will have transcend his wrestling fame the way Flair did for 40-50 years.
|
|
|
|
Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Dec 2, 2023 11:14:52 GMT -5
Cena is a much better person but I'd go with Flair.
|
|
tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,952
|
Post by tirtefaa on Dec 2, 2023 11:51:40 GMT -5
Cena could easily have walked into any company in the middle of his main event run and immediately would have been treated like a big deal though. Flair was treated like a big deal because he was the Nature Boy and a multi time NWA champion... it's pretty comparable to being a multi-time world champion and The Ace of one of if not the Biggest Wrestling Promotion in the world. and if you're talking repetitive Material you're comparing him to the king of that with Ric Flair... hell the WWE's 2000 style of everyone has signature spots that must be in every match is literally taken right out Flair's playbook. I'm not disagreeing with any of your points, in fact I essentially said the same thing with some of my post. But the issue is "said legacy" versus "potential legacy". There is absolutely no doubt that Cena could have done more if he wanted...but he didn't. There is a *reason* why Cena's run in the company felt like one long continuous episode, mostly because the performance stuck to a very rigid and simple approach and never ever strayed from that. This isn't an argument for a heel turn, but for every great moment that Cena has, they quickly hit the reset button on him and it felt like the company did not care about the quality of the character enough to bring it forward in other ways, simply because they were making enough on the investment....they didn't want to rock the boat. Again, I liked Cena the performer to some degree, but the prominence and focus of his presence along with the lack of not doing more with him did hurt him to *me*. My vision on what is interesting in wrestling is allowing the ability to shake things up, whether that means changing companies, making changes to characters or redirecting how you build a feud, etc. But does that make sense for WWE or John Cena the person? Absolutely not. They know what works and they aren't going to change it. Wal-Mart didn't become the largest retail store by having a quality looking store with helpful staff. Their approach was always cheap prices. WWE had a singular vision with John Cena and wanted him marketed a very specific way, and it's worked out for them. But sometimes you just don't want to shop at Wal-Mart. So if you're asking me, how I compare the value of John Cena, it comes down to the value I saw in him as a performer, the same way I look at the value in shopping at Wal-Mart. Did I have the right experience that I was looking for? In most cases, no...I didn't. I can't argue with *their* success, but that doesn't change the fact that they have a stagnant, yet successful view on what they want. |
|
|
|
Post by Jindrak Mark on Dec 2, 2023 12:32:36 GMT -5
I recently had a coworker who had no idea who Ric Flair was. Cena is like Hogan, Austin and Rock where even if you know absolutely nothing about pro wrestling, at least know his name and what he looks like. I'm not sure Austin is quite on that level in 2023. To people 30-40+ who remember him from his peak yeah but I don't get the feeling his fame carried onto future generations the way Hogan's did. When he had that match with Owens last year I had to explain to my nephew how big of a deal he was. I think a lot of non-wrestling fans might not even know him at all whereas 90+% of people in America probably know Rock/Cena/Hogan. Not sure exactly what level Flair would be on though. |
|
|
|
Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 2, 2023 12:36:08 GMT -5
Right now? Probably Flair, but he's 30 years older then Cena and Cena is making some major in roads in Hollywood these days. By the time all is said and done with, I'm sure it'll be Cena. Hell, you could put up a damn convincing argument it's already John and I certainly wouldn't argue against it
|
|
