Post by Tea & Crumpets on Dec 9, 2023 6:57:04 GMT -5
Honestly so many it's a big bugbear I have with a lot of modern wrestling, so many little details aren't done right for me now.
- Shuffling and the obvious sit-up & brace for a top rope move
- Everyone standing in a crowd for a dive then dying like bowling pins even if they're barely brushed. I've seen musicians jump into the crowd they don't murderkill everyone who breathes on them.
- 99% of modern comedy wrestling. It's too ironic, too self-indulgent and meta and reliant on referencing and deconstructing the staples of wrestling- staples that are then played straight in another match. Not my thing but also hard to get re-invested in anything after 20 minutes of "ha ha this is all a silly show isn't it" irony. I used to like Chikara, not so much now, even in Chikara it worked best when that was the consistent tone rather than having Chuck Taylor throw an invisible handgrenade at Hydra one minute, Claudio and Brodie Lee having a blood feud the next. The best comedy wrestling is the older school stuff which was more slapstick/vaudeville inspired but still reliant on playing the actual content of a match comparatively straight. William Regal, Jim Breaks, Johnny Saint, Norman Smiley.
- Overly choreographed or obviously co-operative spots, in particular most of the modern RVD/Jerry Lynn or Malenko/Guerrero style exchanges. They seem focused on going as fast and elaborate as possible rather than making each part of the sequence look real, every move should look like it's trying to achieve something rather than just be there to go through the routine, it looks like a dance rather than a fight when done wrong. Those sorts of sequence can be amazing, but if you can't make it look real and spontaneous and like everything is an attempt to do something, don't bother.
-Related to this, the DRAMATIC POSE-OFF at the end of an exchange. It was cool the first few times in the 90s because it was novel, and because Malenko's gimmick was a shoot wrestler, RVD's was a martial arts guy, so the 'stop in a fighting stance' thing made sense for their gimmick. The Bucks, Adam Cole and Johnny Gargano aren't kickboxers or shootwrestlers why are they suddenly adopting a fighting pose for the staredown when they never do it otherwise?
- Even moreso, mirror moves and dramatic pose-offs. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen an actual mirror move happen in MMA, and it's infuriating how many wrestlers will suddenly add a move to their repertoire that they don't usually do, just to have the mirror move spot. It's why I really struggle with Will Ospreay, he absolutely loves doing the "I do a move, you do the same move, I do another move, you do the same move, flip, flip, kneel down like the Avengers and pause for applause" spot and it just always takes me out of it. They may as well turn to the crowd hold hands and bow mid-match.
-Related again- bad strikes and bad strike exchanges. The Japanese style, Suzuki, Kobashi, Misawa, Kawada etc. style of throwing stiff strikes, strike rushes, or "Let's see who hits harder" strike offs are so, so overdone, and often done badly. The Suzuki test your striking spot is so often done with no rhyme or reason, if they're pausing from trying to win the match to instead butt like rams in mating season, I want a reason for this pridefulness and the commentary to sell it rather than just chortling at the stiff moves. Plus, less is more a lot of the time. Moxley's clinch knees are so hit and miss, Kingston's machine gun chops are hit and miss, just tighten up and slow down. 1-2 strikes that look snug and convincing are a way better spot than 5-10 rushed strikes that either have a ton of air or don't look impactful.
- Lack of selling- not just going too fast as if they can't be bothered with the selling and downtime and drama, but not even selling your OWN moves. Zack Sabre Jr used to be a criminal offender for this, if you're not looking like you're putting effort into your moves, struggling, trying to hurt them etc., your offence instantly looks ten times worse and again, like a routine or like you're doing a wrestling school drill.
-Contrast to the above- overselling. In the modern era, most wrestling is seen on the camera, and HD. Playing to the cheap seats in the stadium doesn't work now, they're watching it on the screen. It's the same problem as "Guy is KO'd for 10 minutes from a transition move but the ref is down so misses the pin" or "Interference KOs a guy for 10 minutes and the ref recovers to count 3". If you can't time those spots right don't do them, they're the sort of thing I presume is workshopped and rehearsed so get the timing down. Inconsistent selling across the board really takes me out not just of a match but of a show, it bleeds between matches.
-Related again, a lot of ref bumps are OTT. The guy gets caught with a stray punch and is down for 3 minutes like he's been Wasted in GTA. Again look at real combat sports, a guy who gets knocked out might be down for 20seconds, and take a minute or two to get back to his feet, but he's not just flat out dead, hell sometimes he'll be down, then get back up in 10-20 seconds just clearly in no condition to fight. Pro wrestling referees are made of glass and are the dumbest people alive, it's such an established meme that you get stuff like Summerslam last year, where Jeff Jarrett guest referees better than any full time ref and you just go "Why DON'T they have more referees who are ex-pros in kayfabe", they're wise to the tricks and won't need CPR every time there's a stray elbow. Ref bumps need to be done cleverer and made shorter, the only "The ref is dead" bump I can think of that felt remotely justified was whenever one would catch HHH's sledgehammer. Hebner's at WM17 in HHH/Taker was ridiculous, he's squished in the corner and is dead for about fifteen minutes.
....Sometimes I wonder if I actually don't like wrestling anymore.
- Shuffling and the obvious sit-up & brace for a top rope move
- Everyone standing in a crowd for a dive then dying like bowling pins even if they're barely brushed. I've seen musicians jump into the crowd they don't murderkill everyone who breathes on them.
- 99% of modern comedy wrestling. It's too ironic, too self-indulgent and meta and reliant on referencing and deconstructing the staples of wrestling- staples that are then played straight in another match. Not my thing but also hard to get re-invested in anything after 20 minutes of "ha ha this is all a silly show isn't it" irony. I used to like Chikara, not so much now, even in Chikara it worked best when that was the consistent tone rather than having Chuck Taylor throw an invisible handgrenade at Hydra one minute, Claudio and Brodie Lee having a blood feud the next. The best comedy wrestling is the older school stuff which was more slapstick/vaudeville inspired but still reliant on playing the actual content of a match comparatively straight. William Regal, Jim Breaks, Johnny Saint, Norman Smiley.
- Overly choreographed or obviously co-operative spots, in particular most of the modern RVD/Jerry Lynn or Malenko/Guerrero style exchanges. They seem focused on going as fast and elaborate as possible rather than making each part of the sequence look real, every move should look like it's trying to achieve something rather than just be there to go through the routine, it looks like a dance rather than a fight when done wrong. Those sorts of sequence can be amazing, but if you can't make it look real and spontaneous and like everything is an attempt to do something, don't bother.
-Related to this, the DRAMATIC POSE-OFF at the end of an exchange. It was cool the first few times in the 90s because it was novel, and because Malenko's gimmick was a shoot wrestler, RVD's was a martial arts guy, so the 'stop in a fighting stance' thing made sense for their gimmick. The Bucks, Adam Cole and Johnny Gargano aren't kickboxers or shootwrestlers why are they suddenly adopting a fighting pose for the staredown when they never do it otherwise?
- Even moreso, mirror moves and dramatic pose-offs. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen an actual mirror move happen in MMA, and it's infuriating how many wrestlers will suddenly add a move to their repertoire that they don't usually do, just to have the mirror move spot. It's why I really struggle with Will Ospreay, he absolutely loves doing the "I do a move, you do the same move, I do another move, you do the same move, flip, flip, kneel down like the Avengers and pause for applause" spot and it just always takes me out of it. They may as well turn to the crowd hold hands and bow mid-match.
-Related again- bad strikes and bad strike exchanges. The Japanese style, Suzuki, Kobashi, Misawa, Kawada etc. style of throwing stiff strikes, strike rushes, or "Let's see who hits harder" strike offs are so, so overdone, and often done badly. The Suzuki test your striking spot is so often done with no rhyme or reason, if they're pausing from trying to win the match to instead butt like rams in mating season, I want a reason for this pridefulness and the commentary to sell it rather than just chortling at the stiff moves. Plus, less is more a lot of the time. Moxley's clinch knees are so hit and miss, Kingston's machine gun chops are hit and miss, just tighten up and slow down. 1-2 strikes that look snug and convincing are a way better spot than 5-10 rushed strikes that either have a ton of air or don't look impactful.
- Lack of selling- not just going too fast as if they can't be bothered with the selling and downtime and drama, but not even selling your OWN moves. Zack Sabre Jr used to be a criminal offender for this, if you're not looking like you're putting effort into your moves, struggling, trying to hurt them etc., your offence instantly looks ten times worse and again, like a routine or like you're doing a wrestling school drill.
-Contrast to the above- overselling. In the modern era, most wrestling is seen on the camera, and HD. Playing to the cheap seats in the stadium doesn't work now, they're watching it on the screen. It's the same problem as "Guy is KO'd for 10 minutes from a transition move but the ref is down so misses the pin" or "Interference KOs a guy for 10 minutes and the ref recovers to count 3". If you can't time those spots right don't do them, they're the sort of thing I presume is workshopped and rehearsed so get the timing down. Inconsistent selling across the board really takes me out not just of a match but of a show, it bleeds between matches.
-Related again, a lot of ref bumps are OTT. The guy gets caught with a stray punch and is down for 3 minutes like he's been Wasted in GTA. Again look at real combat sports, a guy who gets knocked out might be down for 20seconds, and take a minute or two to get back to his feet, but he's not just flat out dead, hell sometimes he'll be down, then get back up in 10-20 seconds just clearly in no condition to fight. Pro wrestling referees are made of glass and are the dumbest people alive, it's such an established meme that you get stuff like Summerslam last year, where Jeff Jarrett guest referees better than any full time ref and you just go "Why DON'T they have more referees who are ex-pros in kayfabe", they're wise to the tricks and won't need CPR every time there's a stray elbow. Ref bumps need to be done cleverer and made shorter, the only "The ref is dead" bump I can think of that felt remotely justified was whenever one would catch HHH's sledgehammer. Hebner's at WM17 in HHH/Taker was ridiculous, he's squished in the corner and is dead for about fifteen minutes.
....Sometimes I wonder if I actually don't like wrestling anymore.
