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Post by gnr123 on Mar 10, 2024 16:05:18 GMT -5
He had memorable moments/matches, but the only real history defining moments are really Mania 20 (which was really just a personal milestone) and the Radicals debuting. Dude also went wire to wire in the 2004 Royal Rumble, and Randy Orton won the title off him to become the youngest ever World Heavyweight Champion. I would also put the tag title win over Austin and Triple H as a huge moment. Point is that stating that the only notable thing in his career being the WM20 ending is, to be blunt, f***ing stupid. The only notable thing he did in his career was the reason for the WWE developing a concussion protocol and taking chair shots to the head and blading away. Making WWE a safer working environment for the talent. That's it. Any bullshit he did in the ring is irrelevant and erased. He has been erased. And for good reason and good f***in' riddance! "Oh, but he had a good match with so and so," who cares!? What he did, the atrocities he committed that day, are the only thing people are going to remember about him. Not his match with Triple H, his Royal Rumble win, he's matches in WCW. The guy murdered his own wife and son and took his own life because he's too much of a gutless coward to deal with what he did. Nobody labels him an influence, nobody is any company talks about him, he's not missed and will never be talked about again. He has no legacy, he has no history, as far as his wrestling career goes, it went to hell where I hope he is now.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Mar 10, 2024 16:11:07 GMT -5
Heyman is gonna name drop Brock any chance he gets because he's an amoral scumbag who hitched his wagon to that sex creep for more of his career than he ran ECW, and whose interest it's in for there to be a Brock return so he can continue to make money. But WWE probably won't mind in he slips something into a hall of fame speech, because Brock's been removed from TV so they don't get further attetnion or heat on them from sponsors; it's not going to be a Benoit or even Vince-scale unpersoning. People will gripe on twitter and that's about as far as it'll go in WWE's eyes. In the immediate aftermath of the Vince McMahon WSJ sex trafficking story and lawsuit, Paul Heyman painted it as a "jealous haters" thing on the Pat McAfee Show. He is not someone you ever want to look at as an example of sound moral judgment. Paul is another guy like Vince where his TV character is him toned down lmao
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 10, 2024 16:33:47 GMT -5
Heyman is gonna name drop Brock any chance he gets because he's an amoral scumbag who hitched his wagon to that sex creep for more of his career than he ran ECW, and whose interest it's in for there to be a Brock return so he can continue to make money. But WWE probably won't mind in he slips something into a hall of fame speech, because Brock's been removed from TV so they don't get further attetnion or heat on them from sponsors; it's not going to be a Benoit or even Vince-scale unpersoning. People will gripe on twitter and that's about as far as it'll go in WWE's eyes. In the immediate aftermath of the Vince McMahon WSJ sex trafficking story and lawsuit, Paul Heyman painted it as a "jealous haters" thing on the Pat McAfee Show. He is not someone you ever want to look at as an example of sound moral judgment. What a f***ing scumbag I can't say enough how much of a non-stop wall to wall scumbag Paul Heyman is.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Mar 10, 2024 16:40:41 GMT -5
Erasing Benoit in the grander scheme of things means not being able to show 1 Wrestlemania main event, 1 Summerslam main event and 1 Royal Rumble win. Given that you won't be able to show 1 Wrestlemania Main Event, which was at MSG and included Triple H and Shawn Michaels, that probably puts Benoit in the top 50 comfortably. To be fair even if it is an exaggeration I don't think it's too much of one. There are so many big names over 50+ years that you can be a world champion and Mania main eventer and not even be guaranteed top 50. Sid and Yokozuna both have 2 Mania main events and might not make it. Drew beat Brock clean as a sheet in the main event and is about to have a 3rd Mania world title match and might not make it. From Bruno/Backlund/Morales/Graham to Hogan/Savage/Warrior/Andre to Taker/HBK/Bret to Rock/Austin/HHH to Cena/Batista/Orton/Brock to Punk/Bryan to Roman/Cody/Rollins. That's over 20 just off the top of my head easily above Benoit. Then there are your Pipers, Angles, Jericho, Edge, Foley, DiBiase, Snuka. There are probably other huge names from the 60-70s I'm not as knowledgeable about too. Then the female stars who were bigger than him like Chyna or Becky or Trish. In WWE history does he go above the likes of Jake Roberts or Mr. Perfect? Kane or Big Show? Jeff Hardy or Rey Mysterio? Bray Wyatt or Dean Ambrose? Diesel or Razor? The guy he celebrated with at the end of XX? At first I thought might not make the top 50 maybe was a bit of an exaggeration but it might not be. This is not a slight on Benoit (well f*** him for that other reason but just talking his WWE career here) but there are so many bigger names than him. There's a lot of competition. If he's top 50 he's probably scraping in very near the bottom.
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Post by eJm on Mar 10, 2024 17:51:02 GMT -5
Heyman is gonna name drop Brock any chance he gets because he's an amoral scumbag who hitched his wagon to that sex creep for more of his career than he ran ECW, and whose interest it's in for there to be a Brock return so he can continue to make money. But WWE probably won't mind in he slips something into a hall of fame speech, because Brock's been removed from TV so they don't get further attetnion or heat on them from sponsors; it's not going to be a Benoit or even Vince-scale unpersoning. People will gripe on twitter and that's about as far as it'll go in WWE's eyes. In the immediate aftermath of the Vince McMahon WSJ sex trafficking story and lawsuit, Paul Heyman painted it as a "jealous haters" thing on the Pat McAfee Show. He is not someone you ever want to look at as an example of sound moral judgment. It’s always funny when people in the aftermath of this have called them “jealous” or “ambulance chasers” or whatever when all it does is make you out to have been someone within the company, or has been in the company, to not have read the lawsuit or read any stories about the lawsuit. “Vince blackmailed the woman with having her photos shown to production people and other people in the company as well as using her as a sexual bargaining chip for one of your biggest stars? What a hater. She’s jealous of having to be forced to keep a job abusing her or else she’d have nothing and never work anywhere again!”
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Grimlock
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Mar 10, 2024 17:55:42 GMT -5
When it comes to Brock it just makes me sad. You have the greatest pure athlete in wrestling history. His first few years are stellar. Dude ends up at the very least shitty along with being the poster boy for the most boring never watch WWE again shit era ever.
It is actually incredible how boring they made him. That should be impossible but no, he really just didn’t do shit for ages but held the title scene ransom for what felt like a decade.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Mar 10, 2024 18:33:06 GMT -5
When it comes to Brock it just makes me sad. You have the greatest pure athlete in wrestling history. His first few years are stellar. Dude ends up at the very least shitty along with being the poster boy for the most boring never watch WWE again shit era ever. It is actually incredible how boring they made him. That should be impossible but no, he really just didn’t do shit for ages but held the title scene ransom for what felt like a decade. That, to an extent, was on Lesnar. He never cared about pro wrestling except insofar as it made him money (I don't think) and the perks that came from being at or near the top of the card. His most impactful work was in UFC; WWE was a step down for him after that.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 10, 2024 18:46:30 GMT -5
In the immediate aftermath of the Vince McMahon WSJ sex trafficking story and lawsuit, Paul Heyman painted it as a "jealous haters" thing on the Pat McAfee Show. He is not someone you ever want to look at as an example of sound moral judgment. What a f***ing scumbag I can't say enough how much of a non-stop wall to wall scumbag Paul Heyman is. And how much of a pass he seems to get from wrestling fans.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 10, 2024 23:58:24 GMT -5
I've always wondered what Brock's career looks like if his UFC return wasn't an embarrassing decision win over Mark Hunt overturned because he got popped for PEDs immediately. If he got a meaningful UFC return, he might have just walked on wrestling again, or ended up even more part time than he already was, and not wanting to do anything when he was there because he had a fight coming up. I don't see him doing both long term but if MMA seemed even kind of viable I think he'd have left wrestling behind again, in which case maybe they wouldn't have given Randy Orton brain damage just to run worked shoot tough guy stuff to rebuild Brock's aura after the steroid news came out
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Post by yokohamacpfc on Mar 11, 2024 2:42:07 GMT -5
I think it’s possible that the Saudis will ask for Brock for the next show. He would be a favorite of the PIF suits (or thawbs) that run the shows who would care little about an American scandal.
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hassanchop
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Post by hassanchop on Mar 11, 2024 3:10:47 GMT -5
I heard rumors that in 2005 when Lasley was still in developmental, the agents hid him from Vince hoping not to create another Brock. I guess the way he was booked from mid 2005- early 2006, they were kinda successful. I think it’s possible that the Saudis will ask for Brock for the next show. He would be a favorite of the PIF suits (or thawbs) that run the shows who would care little about an American scandal. They must bring the sumo guy back first.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Mar 12, 2024 12:28:16 GMT -5
I heard rumors that in 2005 when Lasley was still in developmental, the agents hid him from Vince hoping not to create another Brock. I guess the way he was booked from mid 2005- early 2006, they were kinda successful. I think it’s possible that the Saudis will ask for Brock for the next show. He would be a favorite of the PIF suits (or thawbs) that run the shows who would care little about an American scandal. They must bring the sumo guy back first. They can probably do that, but I'm thinking that WWE post-Vince will likely just put on non-canonical shows for the Saudis that might include Lesnar. They'll make sure he's in the ring with near-peers like Lashley who a) aren't holding any titles and b) are fairly capable of holding their own in case Lesnar decided to go into business for himself. Perhaps having those kinds of terms in front of him, the kinds of terms that say, "Yeah, you're wanted by a section of our paying audience, but we honestly can't trust you to behave and neither can most of the roster," might make him either walk away completely or be more willing to play well with others.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Mar 12, 2024 12:38:49 GMT -5
I heard rumors that in 2005 when Lasley was still in developmental, the agents hid him from Vince hoping not to create another Brock. I guess the way he was booked from mid 2005- early 2006, they were kinda successful. I think it’s possible that the Saudis will ask for Brock for the next show. He would be a favorite of the PIF suits (or thawbs) that run the shows who would care little about an American scandal. They must bring the sumo guy back first. PUT SOME DAMN RESPECT ON THE NAME OF HIROKI SUMI!
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Famous Rocking Chimes
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Post by Famous Rocking Chimes on Mar 12, 2024 16:25:10 GMT -5
Bryan Alvarez saying last night on WOL that there is chat behind the scenes of perhaps bringing Brock back.
Not that I think he should (both from a moral and wrestling standpoint) but they must think Brock isn’t going to be implicated any further in the trafficking case if so.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Mar 12, 2024 16:29:03 GMT -5
I've always wondered what Brock's career looks like if his UFC return wasn't an embarrassing decision win over Mark Hunt overturned because he got popped for PEDs immediately. If he got a meaningful UFC return, he might have just walked on wrestling again, or ended up even more part time than he already was, and not wanting to do anything when he was there because he had a fight coming up. I don't see him doing both long term but if MMA seemed even kind of viable I think he'd have left wrestling behind again, in which case maybe they wouldn't have given Randy Orton brain damage just to run worked shoot tough guy stuff to rebuild Brock's aura after the steroid news came out Remember when Vince offered him up a totally fake victory over a guy who beat the shit out of him for real? What a bunch of marks.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
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Post by hassanchop on Mar 13, 2024 1:09:35 GMT -5
I heard rumors that in 2005 when Lasley was still in developmental, the agents hid him from Vince hoping not to create another Brock. I guess the way he was booked from mid 2005- early 2006, they were kinda successful. They must bring the sumo guy back first. PUT SOME DAMN RESPECT ON THE NAME OF HIROKI SUMI! Better yet, Lesnar loses to the guy, he tries to bodyslam him, fails, and eats a Banzai drop and 1, 2 adios. Bryan Alvarez saying last night on WOL that there is chat behind the scenes of perhaps bringing Brock back. Not that I think he should (both from a moral and wrestling standpoint) but they must think Brock isn’t going to be implicated any further in the trafficking case if so. Worse case, they bring him back and some assholes in the audience will chant something to remind everyone of the case he was implicated in, or bring some obnoxious signs alluding to it. Nightmarish case, if someone in the writing decides to create a pervy character for Lesnar like Jerry Lawler calling for puppies in the 2000s.
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Post by eJm on Mar 13, 2024 6:50:14 GMT -5
I think the problem I have is that, like, the case has only just been filed. We're going to be hearing about more names soon enough and if it gets to court properly, there's zero chance of Brock not being a witness since he's practically all but named. So bringing him back now when we don't know for sure what happened with him and Grant seems extremely unwise to me.
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 13, 2024 7:57:40 GMT -5
I think the problem I have is that, like, the case has only just been filed. We're going to be hearing about more names soon enough and if it gets to court properly, there's zero chance of Brock not being a witness since he's practically all but named. So bringing him back now when we don't know for sure what happened with him and Grant seems extremely unwise to me. Yeah it should play out further before he returns unless there’s some type of exculpatory evidence he’s presented (not even sure what that could be).
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Mar 13, 2024 7:59:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure I believe that, they just made him unplayable in 2K which caused problems for their 2 main game modes, business is good, there's literally no reason to do this.
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Post by SneakMan on Mar 13, 2024 8:46:41 GMT -5
Beyond his kayfabe accomplishments which are easy enough to write around (Mania 31, 34 and 38 can easily be “Roman Reigns competes for the WWE/Universal title,” Mania 30 can simply be “The Undertaker’s legendary Streak comes to an end”) Brock’s biggest impact in WWE is getting their no-compete clauses changed to be far less draconian, and making the company so paranoid about people leaving that they, for years, have made sure no one wrestler can be bigger than The WWE Brand. And neither of those aspects are ones that WWE would wanna promote anyway.
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