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Post by KingPooper on Apr 8, 2024 11:19:15 GMT -5
Besides Jey vs Roman at Summerslam both were pretty much spinning their wheels all year
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 8, 2024 11:22:02 GMT -5
Though I wasn’t happy seeing Roman retain last year and I did think WWE could possibly regret it later, Cody winning the titles at 40 did allow for his prediction of the Bloodline deteriorating to play out, and it does feel like a bigger deal for Cody to be coronated at an “anniversary show” rather than a Mania ending in 9.
So my vote is “yeah, kinda, depends on how much you like Roman”. Much like with Daniel Bryan becoming champion at 30, as long as it’s a fun show with a satisfying outcome, I honestly do not care how many changes and shifts were made. Not important to me.
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 8, 2024 13:43:03 GMT -5
In hindsight, it was 1000% the right move as they created something far more compelling this year than last (which was itself extremely compelling), much more layered, and with much more that can happen as a follow-up than if he won last year.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Apr 8, 2024 13:47:40 GMT -5
Most definitely not. WWE had multiple red hot guys last year in Cody, Sami and Jey all ready to end the Bloodline. Instead Jey overstays his welcome in the group due to stupidity and the it takes the faces a whole damn year to realize that they outnumber the pricks. A group of them just could have kicked Solo’s ass backstage last year but Vince booked faces are mostly morons with no strategic ability whatsoever.
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Post by ace on Apr 8, 2024 13:50:44 GMT -5
Record business. An infinitely better story. A character arc that flat out didn’t make sense to win the first time. A fairy tale ending. The only people who can say it wasn’t the right call with a straight face are either too stubborn to admit they were wrong or don’t even understand the story they were mad about in the first place.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,672
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 8, 2024 14:01:31 GMT -5
In hindsight, it was 1000% the right move as they created something far more compelling this year than last (which was itself extremely compelling), much more layered, and with much more that can happen as a follow-up than if he won last year. I think WWE could have created something just as compelling as last year with Cody winning the title. Having said that, the story we got was great this year and Cody got the job done and didn't bottle it, with one of the best main events of all time while I would have had Cody win at WM39, now not let down that he didn't.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 8, 2024 14:01:32 GMT -5
A character arc that flat out didn’t make sense to win the first time. You keep saying this and it utterly baffles me. Cody HAD his struggle going into that match - he returned in spectacular fashion just to quickly get seriously injured, gutted through it to win Hell in a Cell anyway, worked to come back for the Rumble, won the match (and even coming in at #30, like, he was in there for 15 minutes, for reference that's as long as Austin was in in 1998), started gunning for the unstoppable champion, and was repeatedly dismissed and run down and told his dead dad never loved him and that Heyman was going to f*** his wife, and he recognized the danger of the Bloodline and worked to build alliances to give him some backup in going against them. The story was already there. There was already animosity, there was already a mountain to climb, Cody already had to struggle to get to that point, and he already knew what he had to do to win. It just didn't get paid off.
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 8, 2024 14:06:38 GMT -5
Nah, given that there were absolutely no in-story consequences for the match outcome last year (a whole lot of Cody spinning his wheels and Roman not being around), and what direction the two main players did go in would've made a lot more sense if the result in '23 had been flipped. WWE got away with this, big time; credit to them, they spent the last year at least assuring the audience that this isn't the Vince-led WWE anymore, that Cody wasn't going to be "buried" or shuffled into the midcard just because he lost last year, but from a storytelling/creative point of view, the extra year was meaningless beyond getting people to go "finally!" I mean that’s just blatantly not true. They definitely didn’t just have a rematch with nothing changed a year later. We had the whole Seth nuanced integration into the story, The Rock being introduced into the story (setting up feuds with Cody and Roman and a potential Roman babyface redemption arc), the Usos imploded and changed sides in that year, etc. And then we had Cody in-story gathering all of his Avengers for the rematch as a direct result of what happened last time. Now could that have been done in less than a full year’s time? Certainly. But there were definitely additions to the story since last year.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,672
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 8, 2024 15:26:46 GMT -5
Looking back, I vote yes. Otherwise, we would never have gotten Bitchhalla.
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Post by longtimelurker29 on Apr 8, 2024 15:44:29 GMT -5
Nah, given that there were absolutely no in-story consequences for the match outcome last year (a whole lot of Cody spinning his wheels and Roman not being around), and what direction the two main players did go in would've made a lot more sense if the result in '23 had been flipped. WWE got away with this, big time; credit to them, they spent the last year at least assuring the audience that this isn't the Vince-led WWE anymore, that Cody wasn't going to be "buried" or shuffled into the midcard just because he lost last year, but from a storytelling/creative point of view, the extra year was meaningless beyond getting people to go "finally!" I mean that’s just blatantly not true. They definitely didn’t just have a rematch with nothing changed a year later. We had the whole Seth nuanced integration into the story, The Rock being introduced into the story (setting up feuds with Cody and Roman and a potential Roman babyface redemption arc), the Usos imploded and changed sides in that year, etc. And then we had Cody in-story gathering all of his Avengers for the rematch as a direct result of what happened last time. Now could that have been done in less than a full year’s time? Certainly. But there were definitely additions to the story since last year. Yeah, while some of the story dragged post Summerslam until the Rumble(which happens every year lol), the story had SIGNIFICANT beats that made the story even better that you couldn’t have told if Cody had won at 39.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 8, 2024 15:57:09 GMT -5
A character arc that flat out didn’t make sense to win the first time. You keep saying this and it utterly baffles me. Cody HAD his struggle going into that match - he returned in spectacular fashion just to quickly get seriously injured, gutted through it to win Hell in a Cell anyway, worked to come back for the Rumble, won the match (and even coming in at #30, like, he was in there for 15 minutes, for reference that's as long as Austin was in in 1998), started gunning for the unstoppable champion, and was repeatedly dismissed and run down and told his dead dad never loved him and that Heyman was going to f*** his wife, and he recognized the danger of the Bloodline and worked to build alliances to give him some backup in going against them. The story was already there. There was already animosity, there was already a mountain to climb, Cody already had to struggle to get to that point, and he already knew what he had to do to win. It just didn't get paid off. and even before that coming back was part of his story... being told he was wouldn't amount to anything and leaving the WWE and making his name in the indies and helping to form the closest thing WWE has to competition in 20 years. Like they beat it over your head that this was the story... the whole Undesirable to undeniable stuff the commentators said every time he came out... his f***ing theme music... it was massively spelled out..
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,288
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 8, 2024 16:14:37 GMT -5
murdering the main event scene for yet another year shouldn't ever be an option for any title for any company
Just because the ending bite of the dessert was amazing doesn't mean the 3 gallons of human feces you ate for the main course was worth it.
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Post by Schiavone on Apr 8, 2024 16:17:41 GMT -5
I really don’t know, but honestly I probably lean “yes” at this point. Sami versus Roman was what everyone wanted to see last year, and Cody getting the match didn’t feel as earned in the story. This year? We practically forced them to change their plans once it became clear Cody wasn’t getting his shot.
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Post by eJm on Apr 8, 2024 16:31:55 GMT -5
You keep saying this and it utterly baffles me. Cody HAD his struggle going into that match - he returned in spectacular fashion just to quickly get seriously injured, gutted through it to win Hell in a Cell anyway, worked to come back for the Rumble, won the match (and even coming in at #30, like, he was in there for 15 minutes, for reference that's as long as Austin was in in 1998), started gunning for the unstoppable champion, and was repeatedly dismissed and run down and told his dead dad never loved him and that Heyman was going to f*** his wife, and he recognized the danger of the Bloodline and worked to build alliances to give him some backup in going against them. The story was already there. There was already animosity, there was already a mountain to climb, Cody already had to struggle to get to that point, and he already knew what he had to do to win. It just didn't get paid off. and even before that coming back was part of his story... being told he was wouldn't amount to anything and leaving the WWE and making his name in the indies and helping to form the closest thing WWE has to competition in 20 years. Like they beat it over your head that this was the story... the whole Undesirable to undeniable stuff the commentators said every time he came out... his f***ing theme music... it was massively spelled out.. Yeah, I do not understand the re-writing of history here when even I, someone who wasn’t watching, could see the obvious story being told and the fact that story didn’t change that much this year besides the fact an Uso switched sides and The Rock showed up.
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Post by Cvslfc123 on Apr 8, 2024 16:37:56 GMT -5
Yes.
I couldn't stand Cody back then and hated that he won the Rumble from 30 and robbed Sami of his spot, he needed the last year to get me on board.
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Post by eJm on Apr 8, 2024 16:47:46 GMT -5
People’s point about Sami honestly applies to Drew for me. And he had a better backstory to win considering he took out the Usos, Heyman had to be the one to be with them while recovering so Roman was all on his own until Solo showed up.
Sami? I mean, he was over but there was zero chance he was winning with the Cody match looming.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
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Post by Sparkybob on Apr 8, 2024 17:04:21 GMT -5
It's a tradeoff as I think Cody losing lead to a better rumble to Mania period than if Cody won last year, (Rock vs Roman no title probably wouldn't have gotten as much attention as the whole Rock/Cody switcharoo)
But the bloodline had nothing post SummerSlam through the rumble so it just depends on what you value more.
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Post by Defrebel - White Pony on Apr 8, 2024 17:15:33 GMT -5
For me, 100% yes. Watching Cody vs. Roman last night had a level of pure anxiety to it that just wouldn't have existed if I hadn't seen dude lose in this exact spot before and claw his way back over the last year. Whether or not that's a good thing depends on how you view it, but for me it made for an unforgettable experience watching and a much more satisfying outcome than if Cody had just won it last year and none of the chaos surrounding this match happened.
I literally had to put the Jeff Teague podcast on in the background to calm down. I wouldn't trade that level of investment for anything. Shoutouts to Club 520.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Apr 8, 2024 17:39:29 GMT -5
No. Not even close.
They set it up perfectly last year with Sami Zayn forming cracks in the Bloodline and joining forces with Kevin Owens to even the odds against Roman Reigns, then wasted a year doing nothing. This main event was fun and all, but it was rather repetitive and overbooked. Aside from the large number of gratuitous cameos this match featured (some of which had nothing to do with the story), there is literally nothing about this that wouldn't have been accomplished by just doing this last year.
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krozor
Don Corleone
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Post by krozor on Apr 8, 2024 18:03:14 GMT -5
They really managed to thread the needle and pull it off and I do want to celebrate that when so much else surrounding being a wrestling fan in the last year or so has been such a slog due to things outside the shows, but I'm still not sure what lessons anyone has learned about being addicted to getting heat and the dangers of misery booking.
For all the talk that "it's OK, the booking is good again now" I don't know what was really done this year that wasn't a function of The Rock finally being able to come back happening at a weird career/public persona valley that meant he needed to listen to the fan reaction, had the drive to get back into actual performing shape, and had a chance to reclaim some of his mojo by going full heel again and reminding everyone of what made him a true Mount Rushmore guy.
Jimmy and Solo are vastly less over and less valuable right now than they were a year ago, and that's with Solo getting a win over Cena that was essentially meaningless, which should not have been the case. They never really established what Jimmy's motivations actually were except "Jimmy's an idiot" and the actual finishes to WM39 (Solo is ejected, just comes back out anyway with a hoodie on and there are no repercussions for it) and Summerslam (Jimmy, who had turned on Roman to break up the Bloodline, shows up in a hoodie to turn on Jey to rejoin the Bloodline, then does nothing) remain godawful. I don't know how anything is lost for the Bloodline side of things if Cody wins at 39 and the Bloodline starts to fall apart because Roman can't handle the loss, blames the Usos, and gets even more evil/desperate to get his belts back and the family sends The Rock to do something about it OR Cody wins at 39, Jey sees a defeated Roman as having having finally lost his hold on them, Jimmy sees a defeated Roman as a need to go get The Rock to come in and fix things and brings Evil Rock back, causing the Usos to split. You still get to the same places with better week-to-week character motivations, and there's basically no way you end up with a worse Jimmy/Jey match or a less relevant Solo than what we got.
And I still can't get over that they never actually booked a reason for why Brock attacked Cody a year ago. Brock attacking Cody because Cody is champ now makes perfect sense. Brock attacking Cody instead of helping him when Brock can't actually get another title match until Roman loses makes no sense. And again, if we take HHH at his word, Brock himself went into business to do the respect/handshake stuff with Cody at the end of the feud - they somehow booked a half a year of matches with no reason why it started and no real finish in mind and got lucky that somehow Brock Lesnar of all people had a better understanding of what was needed to keep Cody on track at the end?
There's the argument about business and ratings being up, but Roman's barely on TV or wrestling for any of it, so is there any real sense that a more desperate/more ruthless Roman trying to get the belt back - and there's not even a reason he couldn't have gotten it back by doing something terrible or with the help of The Rock to get us where they wanted to be anyway - hurts anything?
I don't know, again, I want to give them credit because they pulled it off (in spite of I guess accidentally booking a Cody/Rock feud instead of Cody/Roman II anyway), but overall, none of it really instills a lot of confidence. The product IS better and more fun than the last few years of full Vince, though, and I'll happily take that. But overall, the last year of Bloodline was basically a microcosm of Roman's entire run on top for me: don't be happy that it's over, be sad that it took so damn long to happen. The "at least two years of this four year title reign could have been an e-mail" approach to a story line.
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