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Post by yokohamacpfc on May 5, 2024 21:07:57 GMT -5
Swerve can't lose his first defense. Perry and Ospreay are likely future contenders but it wouldn't be useful for either of them to do the job now. Hangman has already put him over. A Joe rematch with a stipulation that puts Swerve at a disadvantage could be an idea but TK hates title rematches.
TBH I thought it was decent (and very un-TK-like) for Christian to bring up what Swerve did to Wayne all those months ago as motivation. Even if Christian is insincere it can add a little to Swerve's character development with him having to deal with the receipts of his past. It also means Mama Wayne is entirely justified to hate Swerve and go to extreme lengths to cost him the title. You then have the added tease of perhaps Luchasauras beginning to listen to Mama Wayne more than Christian and Christian manipulating all of the patriarchy like puppets on a string bringing further headaches for Swerve.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 5, 2024 21:14:05 GMT -5
I think the major criticism is more that Swerve is in a position where some feel he needs to have the best, most credible challengers to legitimize his run at the top since he is new to the main event scene. If that were the prevailing criticism (the most common criticism I’ve seen is that Christian hasn’t “earned” the shot rankings wise since he just lost his title to Copeland, is 3-2 on the year, and hasn’t been seen in several weeks), then it wouldn’t make even a scintilla of sense to me, personally, considering that Christian is a well-established near 30-year veteran who, even in kayfabe, is an absolute menace who isn’t above cheating and has won 2/3rds of his matches in AEW. I think a Swerve-Christian feud is decidedly way down the list of potential feuds for Swerve in terms of importance/cache and its a bit of a secondary storyline on the show most likely. It’s a “bigger” match for him to fight Ospreay, Okada, Hangman, Mox, Danielson, Cope, Perry (because of the angle), maybe White, and then injured guys Omega, MJF, Cole. I do think it will be a substantively fun feud and match, though.
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Post by stan1337 on May 5, 2024 21:29:02 GMT -5
If that were the prevailing criticism (the most common criticism I’ve seen is that Christian hasn’t “earned” the shot rankings wise since he just lost his title to Copeland, is 3-2 on the year, and hasn’t been seen in several weeks), then it wouldn’t make even a scintilla of sense to me, personally, considering that Christian is a well-established near 30-year veteran who, even in kayfabe, is an absolute menace who isn’t above cheating and has won 2/3rds of his matches in AEW. I think a Swerve-Christian feud is decidedly way down the list of potential feuds for Swerve in terms of importance/cache and its a bit of a secondary storyline on the show most likely. It’s a “bigger” match for him to fight Ospreay, Okada, Hangman, Mox, Danielson, Cope, Perry (because of the angle), maybe White, and then injured guys Omega, MJF, Cole. I do think it will be a substantively fun feud and match, though. My guess it's the Bucks will start slow and then keep sending harder and harder heaters at him. You won't see him v Mox, Omega, MJF, Cope, Danielson, Ospreay (and maybe Hanger) because they are ostensibly faces on the same side as Swerve v the EVPs. Why shoot the shot with Okada or anyone big you mentioned now? Swerve is amazing, just beat Joe who was presented as a monster. Also, Swerve does not need to do anything to establish himself as a main eventer (I don't think you said that he needed to do so but others did and I wanted to point out that it is a foolish thing to say without double posting.)
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Post by polarbearpete on May 5, 2024 21:34:24 GMT -5
I think a Swerve-Christian feud is decidedly way down the list of potential feuds for Swerve in terms of importance/cache and its a bit of a secondary storyline on the show most likely. It’s a “bigger” match for him to fight Ospreay, Okada, Hangman, Mox, Danielson, Cope, Perry (because of the angle), maybe White, and then injured guys Omega, MJF, Cole. I do think it will be a substantively fun feud and match, though. My guess it's the Bucks will start slow and then keep sending harder and harder heaters at him. You won't see him v Mox, Omega, MJF, Cope, Danielson, Ospreay (and maybe Hanger) because they are ostensibly faces on the same side as Swerve v the EVPs. Why shoot the shot with Okada or anyone big you mentioned now? Swerve is amazing, just beat Joe who was presented as a monster. Also, Swerve does not need to do anything to establish himself as a main eventer (I don't think you said that he needed to do so but others did and I wanted to point out that it is a foolish thing to say without double posting.) I think there’s an idea out there that Swerve is a brand new star to the main event scene and so in order to try to make his reign not be like the Jack Swagger/Dolph Ziggler/ early Bryan/ early Punk reigns, he should be in the biggest storyline on the show.
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on May 5, 2024 21:50:57 GMT -5
Honestly, Christian is the top heel singles wrestler in the company and isn’t tied up in the elite angle so I think this is kind of a money feud right now. They’ve got a history and they’re both evil motherf***ers so I’m looking forward to this match. I just hope they don’t drag it out too much, the cope feud had a good blow off match but the feud went on a little too long for me.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 5, 2024 22:24:49 GMT -5
My guess it's the Bucks will start slow and then keep sending harder and harder heaters at him. You won't see him v Mox, Omega, MJF, Cope, Danielson, Ospreay (and maybe Hanger) because they are ostensibly faces on the same side as Swerve v the EVPs. Why shoot the shot with Okada or anyone big you mentioned now? Swerve is amazing, just beat Joe who was presented as a monster. Also, Swerve does not need to do anything to establish himself as a main eventer (I don't think you said that he needed to do so but others did and I wanted to point out that it is a foolish thing to say without double posting.) I think there’s an idea out there that Swerve is a brand new star to the main event scene and so in order to try to make his reign not be like the Jack Swagger/Dolph Ziggler/ early Bryan/ early Punk reigns, he should be in the biggest storyline on the show. I get what you’re saying, I guess I’m just having a hard time wrapping my head around how Swerve isn’t viewed as a part of the EVP hostile takeover storyline. This match with Christian started because he called out the EVPs for attacking Tony Khan being a bitch move, and the EVPs sent Christian after him for doing so. I highly doubt the EVPs are going to be content to sit idly by and admit defeat when Swerve beats Christian.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 6, 2024 1:36:29 GMT -5
Both Swerve's reign and the EVP takeover storyline are brand new. You need time for both to get their legs under them, because if you have your brand new champ and huge breakout 'this guy is now a centerpiece of our company and wasn't planned to be from day one' star make a beeline right for the evil bosses, you endu p super trapped. Either Swerve gets a big one over on them to establish himself as the huge star, or he needs to face setbacks that immediately toy with his momentum. Letting them send Swerve's way a guy who isn't associated with them, who Swerve has history with, and who we know there'll be some amazing segments out of en route to a match built well by the new top face and one of the most consistent heels in the company, gives Swerve those pieces. He's already made clear his dislike of the situation and they're already shooting retribution his way for it as their very first act as the guys running the show. Say this runs until Wembley or Chicago, hell say it runs to Full Gear; the storyline takes time to grow. If Swerve mounts an offensive right now, he has to lose by necessity. Jack Perry is recently back and Okada is both new and on that international title grind. Neither guy should be Swerve's first opponent for the sake of their own pushes, nor for the sake of Swerve actually getting some foundation under him.
We've had two weeks of huge shocking Elite moments that set the stage for everything they're doing. I imagine this coming week, the Swerve segment is going to be the biggest segment of the show. But right now, the solution that keeps him away and the well built story that getsh im to fight them back are honestly the exact same path: establish himself on a credible filler opponent who he can do good character stuff with, and let the EVP thing go its way. Swerve is no underdog and he gains nothing from early failures.
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Post by daaave on May 6, 2024 2:54:25 GMT -5
If they want to make Swerve the guy he needs to be involved in the biggest parts of the show. They need to keep him close to this Elite stuff, he can still feud with Christian but have him keep talking about the Elite, have them keep talking about Swerve. Make it feel like it's in the same universe and keep planting the seeds for their future confrontation.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on May 6, 2024 3:24:20 GMT -5
I think Christian makes most sense as a first fued especially given his motivation. Helps cement Swerve's face turn if his past is acknowledged. Also sets things up for Hangman later and an enemy or ally if we can see he's a changed man, especially in direct comparison to the biggest pos on the roster.
However they set things up in the wrong order. If the Bucks threw out rankings, hand picked Swerve's opponent and Osprey then goes for international title it would have made more sense.
Having Ospreay positioned as the logical next aew title contender and baffingly going for a lower belt/opponent instead undermines things.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 6, 2024 8:11:56 GMT -5
Let Swerve get some defenses where you expect him to win under his belt before you have the absolute biggest names all gunning for him at once, before you have the EVPs go into "We're gonna get the belt off of this guy no matter what it takes" mode.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 6, 2024 12:05:27 GMT -5
Both Swerve's reign and the EVP takeover storyline are brand new. You need time for both to get their legs under them, because if you have your brand new champ and huge breakout 'this guy is now a centerpiece of our company and wasn't planned to be from day one' star make a beeline right for the evil bosses, you endu p super trapped. Either Swerve gets a big one over on them to establish himself as the huge star, or he needs to face setbacks that immediately toy with his momentum. Letting them send Swerve's way a guy who isn't associated with them, who Swerve has history with, and who we know there'll be some amazing segments out of en route to a match built well by the new top face and one of the most consistent heels in the company, gives Swerve those pieces. He's already made clear his dislike of the situation and they're already shooting retribution his way for it as their very first act as the guys running the show. Say this runs until Wembley or Chicago, hell say it runs to Full Gear; the storyline takes time to grow. If Swerve mounts an offensive right now, he has to lose by necessity. Jack Perry is recently back and Okada is both new and on that international title grind. Neither guy should be Swerve's first opponent for the sake of their own pushes, nor for the sake of Swerve actually getting some foundation under him. We've had two weeks of huge shocking Elite moments that set the stage for everything they're doing. I imagine this coming week, the Swerve segment is going to be the biggest segment of the show. But right now, the solution that keeps him away and the well built story that getsh im to fight them back are honestly the exact same path: establish himself on a credible filler opponent who he can do good character stuff with, and let the EVP thing go its way. Swerve is no underdog and he gains nothing from early failures. Yeah, you need Swerve at least in the orbit of the growing Elite takeover storyline, since you want your top names involved in all of this, but you can't go for the biggest possible matchups yet, not when you still need to build Perry and Okada up into consistent draws (I think they're absolutely on their way, but it takes more time) and Swerve needs his legs under him early in this run. My fantasy booking idea is that you keep Swerve in said orbit, but the first major offensive against the new Elite is undertaken by a small group with Copeland and FTR as the frontmen, with the understanding that this initial charge is being led by guys who aren't "day one" AEW talent but who've built up to the audience that they genuinely care about the company. Importantly, you have those babyfaces come up short; you make it the equivalent of the nWo beating the Horsemen to make it a bigger deal when Sting finally arrives. The key will be getting to the next phase, when the people who eventually take the Elite down are people who are either "day one" types or are at least much more coded as AEW wrestlers than they are as WWE wrestlers, Swerve being high on that list. He could drop the title to Perry, Okada, or maybe even a returning Hangman, but he needs to be involved in however this all gets resolved, which could potentially include him winning the belt back.
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Post by Kalmia on May 6, 2024 14:52:54 GMT -5
I'd just sell it as Swerve hasn't really crossed the EVPs yet and they have their hands full with other things for the time being. Throwing Christian at him was less acting against Swerve and more just them helping Christian and throwing their weight around.
Then when the EVP storyline has fully bedded in and Swerve has a couple of defences under his belt he firmly stands against them. It's Swerve's house, after all, hahaha.
I think wrestling crowds are willing to go along and compartmentalise things until necessary. I also think it's fair that Swerve would have been too fixated on his belt for a few months to really get involved with the EVPs.
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Post by daaave on May 6, 2024 16:37:59 GMT -5
The only thing you want is for Swerve as world champ to feel like he's the most important thing on the show. I think you can get away with not doing that with a more made champ. Even Joe I think you could. But Swerve is new and needs the attention to keep building his name. They made this mistake with Hangman's run. I worry his match with Christian could be 3rd or 4th most interesting match on the card. Depending what else they book
But it's a tricky thing to manage. You want Swerve to succesfully defend the belt but you can't just have him burn through Okada and Ospreay and MJF straight away. I think Christian is a good opponent but it needs a hot build and I think leaning on The Elite story could help.
I'd have just gone Perry personally for ppv. Perry can take the loss. Yeah he's hot now and theres interest in him and you don't want to undercut him too much but lets be honest, he's eventually going to settle into young boy of the stable and Okada is and always will be the final boss of the Elite. I like Perry but in 6 months time he will be the job guy in the Elite so strike while interest is high
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Post by HMARK Center on May 6, 2024 17:09:20 GMT -5
The only thing you want is for Swerve as world champ to feel like he's the most important thing on the show. I think you can get away with not doing that with a more made champ. Even Joe I think you could. But Swerve is new and needs the attention to keep building his name. They made this mistake with Hangman's run. I worry his match with Christian could be 3rd or 4th most interesting match on the card. Depending what else they book But it's a tricky thing to manage. You want Swerve to succesfully defend the belt but you can't just have him burn through Okada and Ospreay and MJF straight away. I think Christian is a good opponent but it needs a hot build and I think leaning on The Elite story could help. I'd have just gone Perry personally for ppv. Perry can take the loss. Yeah he's hot now and theres interest in him and you don't want to undercut him too much but lets be honest, he's eventually going to settle into young boy of the stable and Okada is and always will be the final boss of the Elite. I like Perry but in 6 months time he will be the job guy in the Elite so strike while interest is high I don't think there's a prayer they want that for Perry; dude came back red hot with this angle, they know full well that if he's the job boy by World's End then it'll be a major @#$% up.
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Soultastic
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Post by Soultastic on May 6, 2024 17:30:50 GMT -5
I'm sure we can rush AR Fox into a main event possition by All Out right? Gimme Hell of War 2!
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Post by HMARK Center on May 7, 2024 5:25:46 GMT -5
I'm sure we can rush AR Fox into a main event possition by All Out right? Gimme Hell of War 2! All honesty, they might be able to do something with that in a short program, maybe a few weeks with a blowoff match on Dynamite - just have the Bucks throwing all of Swerve's past sins at him, with Fox being someone he got to turn and then betrayed, anyway. You wouldn't build a PPV around it since Fox has been in ROH for awhile, but something brief where he pops back up as part of an EVP scheme could work.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 8, 2024 21:18:46 GMT -5
I may not have called 'Swerve's segment will be the main point of this week' right but The Elite getting his entourage to double-cross and beat him down puts Swerve way more firmly into the sightlines of this story. These two things are happening alongside one another and the lines connecting them have been shown to be very intentional.
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Post by dynamitekidd on May 8, 2024 21:21:53 GMT -5
I may not have called 'Swerve's segment will be the main point of this week' right but The Elite getting his entourage to double-cross and beat him down puts Swerve way more firmly into the sightlines of this story. These two things are happening alongside one another and the lines connecting them have been shown to be very intentional. I liked this move. Swerve has something good going with Christian, now he has the Elite in his future. Plus you get him away from the embassy. Nice start for him.
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Post by Doo Doo Dickhead on May 8, 2024 21:23:25 GMT -5
Swerved Strickland.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 8, 2024 21:23:35 GMT -5
I definitely think Hangman is coming back as a heel with the Elite to challenge him and I wouldn't be surprised if their big grudge match is at All In. I get wanting to crown Ospreay in his home country but that timing just doesn't work right now for me.
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