Has the term "face/heel turn" broken past wrestling?

[wildojinx]

I've seen people on websites who dont even like wrestling use the term heel turn or face turn when referring to characters in fiction (and sometimes in real life, but lets not talk about that). Has the term transcended wrestling fandom?

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

Yes, at least in fairly nerdy spaces.

At the point when Pokemon, a contender for the most valuable and recognizable IP in the world, had a heavily marketed creature called a Heel Pokemon with wrestling inspired moves like Darkest Lariat and Malicious Moonsault, and said Pokemon also appears in Super Smash Bros games? (And is also the absolute king of Pokemon competitively, but that's more obscure information.) That's containment broken.

[DiBiase is Good]

Heel has been used as a term for an unpleasant person before wrestling adopted it. It’s not heard that much now but it was common enough to be used more frequently in the past.
IIRC the mother in Home Alone uses it. She says something like “don’t you feel like a heel being in first class when the kids are all in economy”.

Can’t recall any examples of it being followed by “turn” anywhere else though.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Apr 25, 2024 22:49:27 GMT -5 DiBiase is Good said:

Heel has been used as a term for an unpleasant person before wrestling adopted it. It’s not heard that much now but it was common enough to be used more frequently in the past.
IIRC the mother in Home Alone uses it. She says something like “don’t you feel like a heel being in first class when the kids are all in economy”.

Can’t recall any examples of it being followed by “turn” anywhere else though.

It was used in a few Flintstones cartoons too, so I think it was a bigger thing in the 50s/60s.

[I'm Team Bayley and Indi]

tvtropes uses the terms face and heel, I wonder if that helped play a part in it getting used away from wrestling.

[Cvslfc123]

Apr 25, 2024 22:49:27 GMT -5 DiBiase is Good said:

Heel has been used as a term for an unpleasant person before wrestling adopted it. It’s not heard that much now but it was common enough to be used more frequently in the past.
IIRC the mother in Home Alone uses it. She says something like “don’t you feel like a heel being in first class when the kids are all in economy”.

Can’t recall any examples of it being followed by “turn” anywhere else though.

The song "You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch" also has the word heel in it. Which also played for a few seconds in Home Alone.

[THE FVNKER]

I know both phrases are used in MMA all the time. Hell, I’ve even heard guys who are adamantly not fans of wrestling describe fixed fights as “works”. So yeah, pretty wild.

[thirteen3]

Yeah, Heel comes from the old timey term Shit heel. Baby face comes from Toots Mondt having a, well, baby face. It's how he got his nickname.

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

Apr 25, 2024 22:49:27 GMT -5 DiBiase is Good said:

Can’t recall any examples of it being followed by “turn” anywhere else though.

Undertale, off the top of my head, which is a pretty good index for what I said about nerdy spaces. It's one of the most popular indy games of the 10's, but it's still an indy game; it's in that space where it's wildly popular, but very easy to know very little about if you're not looking in the right direction.

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

Apr 26, 2024 2:43:16 GMT -5 I'm Team Bayley and Indi said:

tvtropes uses the terms face and heel, I wonder if that helped play a part in it getting used away from wrestling.

It absolutely did, I think, and I'd wager that it worked because of 1. the pre-existing meaning of "heel" as detailed in this thread, 2. the fact that it's one of the more succinct and morally neutral terms for a good guy becoming a bad guy, and 3. the pro wrestling heel (someone who is deliberately hateable for the sake of entertainment) being a useful concept to reference or explain.

[James Fabiano]

A Nintendo Power special on the NES's anniversary mentions Mario's heel turn in Donkey Kong Jr.