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Post by Tiger Millionaire on May 3, 2024 13:11:21 GMT -5
I don't know, I don't actively engage with anything on any social media forum that has my real name. I think that there has objectively been a groundswell of anti-AEW sentiment across the internet to an extent that "Tony Khan is a terrible booker" is the default position and pushing back against that causes you to either be viewed as an "AEW shill" or to be assumed that you're only playing devil's advocate. I feel this sentiment. My wife is in random AEW/wrestling meme groups, not serious stuff by any means, and they have had to ban longtime members that just couldn't stop their obsession with AEW and AEW fans being shut down. I usually always lurk if it is an option. The things I view are not influenced by me clicking on reddit posts because 1. I stopped going to Reddit when the API stuff happened. 2. I don't use my Twitter account anymore. I got in on it in 2007 and bored of it by 2012. 3. I only post my son's school fundraisers on FB. It's not the algorithm. The raw amount of AEW hate content has increased and the tone toward AEW fans who actually enjoy the product is the most unfriendly and toxic I have seen since I started watching in 2022. You used to have to have 100 sockpuppet accounts to influence 10,000 regular accounts, now you can get away with 10 sockpuppet accounts to influence 100,000.
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jb80
AC Slater
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Posts: 166
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Post by jb80 on May 3, 2024 14:05:43 GMT -5
Who are these people tuning in to see Jericho? Don't they realise they are doing more harm than good?
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Post by stoptheclocks on May 3, 2024 15:40:11 GMT -5
Someone on the Observer boards keeps track of the shows’ demos as compared to last year and as compared to the overall decline in ratings of the cable networks they’re on. TBS, TNT and USA are down an average of 6%. Over the last 8 weeks (as compared to the same 8-week period last year), Raw is up 2%, Smackdown is up 8% and Dynamite is down 12%. That's more or less my point. TBS and TNT's viewership, as a whole, is down in the 6-8% range and AEW's viewership is down 12%. It's not outpacing the average much. I would hazard a guess that, but for TBS/TNT having March Madness and the NBA, AEW's viewership drop would be less severe than TBS and TNT at large. WWE is cooking™ and in an especially hot period which, at least partially, likely accounts for a decent percentage of former AEW live viewers who aren't watching live anymore. None of this means the sky is falling for AEW. I'm not sure any of it means much of anything at all beyond AEW being 5 years old now and the honeymoon period being long gone. The Monday Night Wars were a fun time to be a wrestling fan for those who lived it and are this halcyon representation of a bygone era when wrestling was "cool" for people who are too young to have lived it, so a lot of wrestling fans love to hyper-scrutinize live TV viewership data that is becoming more and more antiquated by the day. Especially right now when dunking on AEW is free Reddit karma. It kind of is though, isn't it? I'm not saying it's doomsday, but 6% and 12% are not basically the same either. One number is double the other.
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Post by yokohamacpfc on May 3, 2024 16:04:35 GMT -5
I don't know, I don't actively engage with anything on any social media forum that has my real name. I think that there has objectively been a groundswell of anti-AEW sentiment across the internet to an extent that "Tony Khan is a terrible booker" is the default position and pushing back against that causes you to either be viewed as an "AEW shill" or to be assumed that you're only playing devil's advocate. I feel this sentiment. My wife is in random AEW/wrestling meme groups, not serious stuff by any means, and they have had to ban longtime members that just couldn't stop their obsession with AEW and AEW fans being shut down. I usually always lurk if it is an option. The things I view are not influenced by me clicking on reddit posts because 1. I stopped going to Reddit when the API stuff happened. 2. I don't use my Twitter account anymore. I got in on it in 2007 and bored of it by 2012. 3. I only post my son's school fundraisers on FB. It's not the algorithm. The raw amount of AEW hate content has increased and the tone toward AEW fans who actually enjoy the product is the most unfriendly and toxic I have seen since I started watching in 2022. Online AEW derangement syndrome is so high and showing no signs of abating that I sadly think its a matter of time before someone rushes the ring with evil intent or even worse tries to smuggle a weapon into the venue. I really hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm just a 'too online' pearl clutcher and its all just harmless shit posting. It's just that for every 99 shit posters there's an angry Derrick or Timmy who takes every word to heart and these online hate movements seldom stay online.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 238,137
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 3, 2024 16:43:13 GMT -5
Who are these people tuning in to see Jericho? Don't they release they are doing more harm than good? The match was great, and Shibata is also great, there's no "harm" being done here.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 3, 2024 17:35:41 GMT -5
That's more or less my point. TBS and TNT's viewership, as a whole, is down in the 6-8% range and AEW's viewership is down 12%. It's not outpacing the average much. I would hazard a guess that, but for TBS/TNT having March Madness and the NBA, AEW's viewership drop would be less severe than TBS and TNT at large. WWE is cooking™ and in an especially hot period which, at least partially, likely accounts for a decent percentage of former AEW live viewers who aren't watching live anymore. None of this means the sky is falling for AEW. I'm not sure any of it means much of anything at all beyond AEW being 5 years old now and the honeymoon period being long gone. The Monday Night Wars were a fun time to be a wrestling fan for those who lived it and are this halcyon representation of a bygone era when wrestling was "cool" for people who are too young to have lived it, so a lot of wrestling fans love to hyper-scrutinize live TV viewership data that is becoming more and more antiquated by the day. Especially right now when dunking on AEW is free Reddit karma. It kind of is though, isn't it? I'm not saying it's doomsday, but 6% and 12% are not basically the same either. One number is double the other. Not particularly. Especially if you were to remove March Madness and NBA broadcasts from the data. AEW’s programming is largely mirroring the network it’s on. Now, arguably, pro wrestling content should perform like pro sports content, but it’s tough to make the 1:1 comparison. Suffice to say there’s a whole heck of a lot of pearl clutching going on in the IWC about something that, as of yet, doesn’t really seem like much of an issue.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,907
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Post by Kalmia on May 3, 2024 17:40:13 GMT -5
It's amazing how many ratings and TV experts are also wrestling fans.
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Post by eJm on May 3, 2024 17:51:31 GMT -5
It's amazing how many ratings and TV experts are also wrestling fans. It’s more amazing how, somehow, none of the people who are ratings experts actually work on a network wrestling is on to let them know their mistakes. They clearly need their expertise on these matters.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 3, 2024 18:12:37 GMT -5
It's amazing how many ratings and TV experts are also wrestling fans. I’m a wrestling fan that happens to be interested in the ratings and TV network goings-on. Not an expert by any means but I don’t think you need to be an expert to discuss it here.
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Post by Medium Rare, Trash Just Like U on May 3, 2024 18:15:31 GMT -5
I wish I was an expert on anything.
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Post by THE FVNKER on May 3, 2024 18:17:47 GMT -5
Someone on the Observer boards keeps track of the shows’ demos as compared to last year and as compared to the overall decline in ratings of the cable networks they’re on. TBS, TNT and USA are down an average of 6%. Over the last 8 weeks (as compared to the same 8-week period last year), Raw is up 2%, Smackdown is up 8% and Dynamite is down 12%. That's more or less my point. TBS and TNT's viewership, as a whole, is down in the 6-8% range and AEW's viewership is down 12%. It's not outpacing the average much. I would hazard a guess that, but for TBS/TNT having March Madness and the NBA, AEW's viewership drop would be less severe than TBS and TNT at large. WWE is cooking™ and in an especially hot period which, at least partially, likely accounts for a decent percentage of former AEW live viewers who aren't watching live anymore. None of this means the sky is falling for AEW. I'm not sure any of it means much of anything at all beyond AEW being 5 years old now and the honeymoon period being long gone. The Monday Night Wars were a fun time to be a wrestling fan for those who lived it and are this halcyon representation of a bygone era when wrestling was "cool" for people who are too young to have lived it, so a lot of wrestling fans love to hyper-scrutinize live TV viewership data that is becoming more and more antiquated by the day. Especially right now when dunking on AEW is free Reddit karma. I’ve echoed your sentiment about the Monday Night Wars plenty of times. I don’t usually post in these threads cause it’s always the same discussion. Wether it’s 600k or 900k these threads always come to the point where people are defending the numbers, and another group is saying why it’s bad (although most of the time it’s worded way more mildly than that, thank goodness). I was talking with someone else in another thread, and there seems to be this arbitrary goalpost that AEW must reach over 1 million viewers before people are satisfied. Why that specific number is the end all be all I will never know.
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Post by stoptheclocks on May 3, 2024 18:53:09 GMT -5
It's amazing how many ratings and TV experts are also wrestling fans. It’s more amazing how, somehow, none of the people who are ratings experts actually work on a network wrestling is on to let them know their mistakes. They clearly need their expertise on these matters. Seems a bizarre statement to make given that 100% of people on this board, including you, post constantly about industries they do not work in.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,907
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Post by Kalmia on May 3, 2024 19:41:52 GMT -5
It's amazing how many ratings and TV experts are also wrestling fans. I’m a wrestling fan that happens to be interested in the ratings and TV network goings-on. Not an expert by any means but I don’t think you need to be an expert to discuss it here. There's a difference between being a wrestling fan who knows they only have a layman's understanding and those who speak with the authority of someone who gets paid the big bucks to analyze the figures.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 3, 2024 20:31:30 GMT -5
I’m a wrestling fan that happens to be interested in the ratings and TV network goings-on. Not an expert by any means but I don’t think you need to be an expert to discuss it here. There's a difference between being a wrestling fan who knows they only have a layman's understanding and those who speak with the authority of someone who gets paid the big bucks to analyze the figures. Can’t tell if you’re saying I’m the former or the latter!
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,127
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Post by Mecca on May 3, 2024 21:13:40 GMT -5
Someone on the Observer boards keeps track of the shows’ demos as compared to last year and as compared to the overall decline in ratings of the cable networks they’re on. TBS, TNT and USA are down an average of 6%. Over the last 8 weeks (as compared to the same 8-week period last year), Raw is up 2%, Smackdown is up 8% and Dynamite is down 12%. That's more or less my point. TBS and TNT's viewership, as a whole, is down in the 6-8% range and AEW's viewership is down 12%. It's not outpacing the average much. I would hazard a guess that, but for TBS/TNT having March Madness and the NBA, AEW's viewership drop would be less severe than TBS and TNT at large. WWE is cooking™ and in an especially hot period which, at least partially, likely accounts for a decent percentage of former AEW live viewers who aren't watching live anymore. None of this means the sky is falling for AEW. I'm not sure any of it means much of anything at all beyond AEW being 5 years old now and the honeymoon period being long gone. The Monday Night Wars were a fun time to be a wrestling fan for those who lived it and are this halcyon representation of a bygone era when wrestling was "cool" for people who are too young to have lived it, so a lot of wrestling fans love to hyper-scrutinize live TV viewership data that is becoming more and more antiquated by the day. Especially right now when dunking on AEW is free Reddit karma. I need someone, could be you that's fine, to explain to me like I am a complete rube. How/why WWE is cooking. Like I don't get it...maybe I'm missing what it is. Like the last PPV I watched was literally 5 matches in 4 hours..with incredibly long entrances, mixed with constant videos that felt like a tourism infomercial for the city they were in. By the time it was over my frustration level was peaked.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 3, 2024 21:35:09 GMT -5
That's more or less my point. TBS and TNT's viewership, as a whole, is down in the 6-8% range and AEW's viewership is down 12%. It's not outpacing the average much. I would hazard a guess that, but for TBS/TNT having March Madness and the NBA, AEW's viewership drop would be less severe than TBS and TNT at large. WWE is cooking™ and in an especially hot period which, at least partially, likely accounts for a decent percentage of former AEW live viewers who aren't watching live anymore. None of this means the sky is falling for AEW. I'm not sure any of it means much of anything at all beyond AEW being 5 years old now and the honeymoon period being long gone. The Monday Night Wars were a fun time to be a wrestling fan for those who lived it and are this halcyon representation of a bygone era when wrestling was "cool" for people who are too young to have lived it, so a lot of wrestling fans love to hyper-scrutinize live TV viewership data that is becoming more and more antiquated by the day. Especially right now when dunking on AEW is free Reddit karma. I need someone, could be you that's fine, to explain to me like I am a complete rube. How/why WWE is cooking. Like I don't get it...maybe I'm missing what it is. Like the last PPV I watched was literally 5 matches in 4 hours..with incredibly long entrances, mixed with constant videos that felt like a tourism infomercial for the city they were in. By the time it was over my frustration level was peaked. I’m the wrong person to ask. I think WWE remains mostly terrible. I just see people say WWE is “cooking” all the f***ing time these days. I sort of hate that term, which is why I added it to my username to take the piss out of it lol. That said, WWE’s live gates and viewership numbers are up and their shows are more critically acclaimed than they have been in years. I think, primarily, because things got SO bad under Vince, that incredibly simple things like Michael Cole speaking like a human being again, being able to say the word “wrestling” on TV again, actually pushing the wrestlers the fans like, and peeling the PG veneer back again feel like the greatest thing WWE has ever done, or something.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 3, 2024 22:53:56 GMT -5
That's more or less my point. TBS and TNT's viewership, as a whole, is down in the 6-8% range and AEW's viewership is down 12%. It's not outpacing the average much. I would hazard a guess that, but for TBS/TNT having March Madness and the NBA, AEW's viewership drop would be less severe than TBS and TNT at large. WWE is cooking™ and in an especially hot period which, at least partially, likely accounts for a decent percentage of former AEW live viewers who aren't watching live anymore. None of this means the sky is falling for AEW. I'm not sure any of it means much of anything at all beyond AEW being 5 years old now and the honeymoon period being long gone. The Monday Night Wars were a fun time to be a wrestling fan for those who lived it and are this halcyon representation of a bygone era when wrestling was "cool" for people who are too young to have lived it, so a lot of wrestling fans love to hyper-scrutinize live TV viewership data that is becoming more and more antiquated by the day. Especially right now when dunking on AEW is free Reddit karma. I need someone, could be you that's fine, to explain to me like I am a complete rube. How/why WWE is cooking. Like I don't get it...maybe I'm missing what it is. Like the last PPV I watched was literally 5 matches in 4 hours..with incredibly long entrances, mixed with constant videos that felt like a tourism infomercial for the city they were in. By the time it was over my frustration level was peaked. Presentation and production is still top of the line, the in-ring product is very good as usual, but now the product also has logical, long-form storytelling week to week and month to month, lack of constant rematches (for the most part), the belts have been re-established as meaningful and credible, tons of stars that are more over than they’ve ever been, better camera work (less quick cuts), better commentary, looser scripting on promos (with some doing the best promo work of their careers like McIntyre), less use of buzzwords and less/no banned words, etc etc
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 238,137
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 3, 2024 23:06:44 GMT -5
I wish I was an expert on anything. You are a Lexis King expert!
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Post by HMARK Center on May 4, 2024 10:08:45 GMT -5
That's more or less my point. TBS and TNT's viewership, as a whole, is down in the 6-8% range and AEW's viewership is down 12%. It's not outpacing the average much. I would hazard a guess that, but for TBS/TNT having March Madness and the NBA, AEW's viewership drop would be less severe than TBS and TNT at large. WWE is cooking™ and in an especially hot period which, at least partially, likely accounts for a decent percentage of former AEW live viewers who aren't watching live anymore. None of this means the sky is falling for AEW. I'm not sure any of it means much of anything at all beyond AEW being 5 years old now and the honeymoon period being long gone. The Monday Night Wars were a fun time to be a wrestling fan for those who lived it and are this halcyon representation of a bygone era when wrestling was "cool" for people who are too young to have lived it, so a lot of wrestling fans love to hyper-scrutinize live TV viewership data that is becoming more and more antiquated by the day. Especially right now when dunking on AEW is free Reddit karma. I need someone, could be you that's fine, to explain to me like I am a complete rube. How/why WWE is cooking. Like I don't get it...maybe I'm missing what it is. Like the last PPV I watched was literally 5 matches in 4 hours..with incredibly long entrances, mixed with constant videos that felt like a tourism infomercial for the city they were in. By the time it was over my frustration level was peaked. I'd definitely acknowledge there are things they're doing well: -With the worst of Vince's booking habits gone, WWE has done a good job of not getting in the way of wrestlers who are getting over; they let them come out, let the crowd react to them, let them talk, etc., without all the dumb "yeah, but are you REALLY over? Let's take away every good thing about you and find out!" stuff that used to happen. WWE may feel at times like an "entrance promotion", but hey, the fans like what the stars doing those entrances do and then what they say and some of their key spots, so why get in the way of something that's working? -It's not all passive on their part, though; they've also done a pretty good job of taking some of those wrestlers and rewarding the audience with moments that show them reaching a higher level. I wouldn't say this has been done at all perfectly, but even just Cody rising to the top title, Gunther's IC run leading into what's likely a rise to the main event, that sort of thing, does allow fans to feel like they're justified and, again, rewarded for viewing/following certain wrestlers. It's honestly something AEW should do more often; they'll tell stories with certain wrestlers, but it can be easy for certain acts to get sort of stuck in a particular position on the card (e.g. Kingston is very over, he's in a strong position, fans would probably go nuts for a World title win for him, but you still get the vibe he's not going to beat the tip top guys, at least not yet). -It also has to be acknowledged that while I think it's fair to argue a lot of their recent title runs went way too long, they did a good job of making a lot of the matches involving those titles feel important. I may not have liked the matches in many cases; hell, in the case of Roman I thought his matches basically became reruns that weren't telling any kind of compelling story or showing any interesting character development, which sucks because the motivation and initial execution of Roman's heel turn was one of the best things WWE's booked in twenty years. But I can't sit here and say crowds didn't care about Roman matches (well, ok, maybe outside of the Rumble this year) - people showed up, people were into the whole schtick, even if I couldn't really get it, but that's largely on the company for making sure those title matches felt like events. Now, for me, their actual in-ring product lacks too much for a lot of this to resonate with me - they have good matches, yes, but I feel like the "formula" for many WWE matches is too repetitive and not effective enough at communicating stories and characters in the ring, and while there are exceptions to that (hi again, Gunther!) it's just a general vibe much of the time. I also don't think WWE is particularly sharp when it comes to actually telling an unfolding story; they'll present their characters very well, they'll let them get over and not mess with a good thing, but to me it's still too "moments-based", even when a "moment" might be someone like Drew saying something on the mic so people go "ooh, he ethered him!", but it doesn't really show us those characters evolving due to what they're going through. Hell, I just outlined my complaint about Roman in the last paragraph, but he's just one example of that. But for now? It's working for them. Will it keep working, especially as some major names cycle out for awhile? Hard to say, but for now they've got the positive feeling going for them. What absolutely should be noted, as well, though, is the impact that WWE's leaning on the media is doing for them; people pooh-poohing this are just ignoring what guys like Nick Khan and the guys he works with are tip top at, which has contributed to all kinds of stories over the last long stretch that makes WWE a "babyface company" - I mean, shit, look at how some reports came out after this latest round of firings with the headline/descriptor "yeah, it's bad, but these were done much more nicely and gently than they were under Vince...don't worry, he's 1000% gone, we mean it, investors!", even at the very moment Cameron Grimes was talking about being misled. And, yes, that media strategy has fully involved working to throw dirt at AEW, which Tony Khan has finally seemed to begin forming a larger strategy to respond to with more focus, because it's something that could definitely impact AEW's media rights negotiations.
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Post by Medium Rare, Trash Just Like U on May 4, 2024 10:10:37 GMT -5
I wish I was an expert on anything. You are a Lexis King expert! A Lexpert.
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