What is wrestling tribalism anyway?

[SirLucas]

Is there such a thing as wrestling tribalism, or  it is just a term thrown out there by diehard AEW fans in defense of anybody who criticizes the product?

At one time, I was glued to "The Walking Dead" every Sunday night. But, as the seasons progressed, the plot seemed to stagnate with repetitive storylines and subpar character arcs, I began to give up on it. I didn't finish the final season nor have watched any of the spin-offs. Can wrestling fandom mirror that same feeling?

I was captivated by AEW's inception. It was fresh, it was different. But lately, my enthusiasm has waned. Sitting through a two-hour AEW broadcast feels like a chore; I find myself zoning out, flipping channels (or even jumping to a different streaming platform altogether), or scrolling through my phone. However, let me be clear: my lack of interest doesn't equate to wanting AEW to fail. On the contrary, I crave a wrestling program that reignites my passion, compelling me to tune in every week live.

So, where does this notion of tribalism fit in? Just because I'm disenchanted with AEW's current product doesn't automatically label me as a tribalist. I'm not blindly loyal to one promotion at the expense of all others. Rather, I'm a discerning viewer yearning for quality content, regardless of the company producing it.

I don't believe AEW is awful or lacks talent. It's just that it doesn't consistently hold my attention like WWE does. Don't get me wrong; not every WWE show is a homerun either. Take, for instance, the recent Backlash main event featuring Cody Rhodes and AJ Styles. While I heard AJ and Cody without a doubt had an incredible match, the outcome was so predictable that it dampening the excitement to the point where I turned off the show and did something else as soon as the bell rang. But still, I find myself able to sit through WWE shows more often than AEW.

[Denny Zen is Cooking™]

Tribalism in wrestling is what occurs when people imply that one has to choose between professional wrestling companies as if they were political parties or something.

As just one example, something like opening a post by specifically accusing only "diehard AEW fans in defense of anybody who criticizes the product" of doing something that is very clearly done by the most fervent of fans of both major companies.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

That's really not a good first sentence to open your argument with, first off. That's like... an example of the very thing you're questioning exists even if unintentional. I'll just go ahead and say no, it's not that at all.

Tribalism is very real, it's just not really invoked as much here because this place is actually for the most part very level headed with criticism and support of either company and beyond that

You go to the dredges of social media? You'll see exactly what tribalism is from all sides, the people who defend something to the death, shit on something like they're almost being held at gunpoint to do so, sometimes both things in the same breath.

No one has ever said you not being into AEW makes you "tribal", being tribal is like Mecca's friend who constantly sends him text messages about how much AEW's fanbase sucks, has horrible body odor, and the company is doing to die soon complete with empty arena pics like he's obsessed with how the company is doing despite apparently not watching it but hating everything about it. That's a very big difference and distinction between someone who AEW simply isn't for or they just aren't into right now and give legitimate reasons as to why and go about their lives.

It's really sad how much something like "Choosing a wrestling company and shitting on the other" overtakes so many peoples lives... just ENJOY wrestling! It's in the best state it's been in since WCW folded, people should be thrilled about that... sadly, plenty of them aren't. and probably never will be because of this insatiable need to please an entity one way or the other that will never know they actually exist lol

[Lizuka #BLM]

I mean, yeah, tribalism absolutely exists. Liking one company more than the other or negatively comparing one to the other in some respect is generally fine, but you have people who are constantly doing the, "AEW in the mud!" shit or talking about how AEW's the single worst product in wrestling history or is an embarrassment that needs to die for the good of the industry or whatever and like yeah, that stuff is just being an idiot who gets off at the idea of a monopoly for some reason.

[Wieners=$$$]

Tatanka was a perfect example of wrestling tribalism, until the SOB sold out!

[SirLucas]

Here's something else I thought about, the price is also a significant factor for me. WWE's premium live events are available for just $6 a month on Peacock. On the flip side, AEW's pricing doesn't seem as competitive.

If AEW can't offer a similar special-event-style production at a comparable price point, it automatically raises the bar in my eyes. Subconsciously, I might expect AEW's product to be ten times better than WWE's to justify the higher cost.

Sure, there are fans who can afford to pay $50 for an AEW PPV each month, and if they feel they're getting their money's worth, that's great! But personally, I'm satisfied with the WWE product at 88% less the cost.

Let me give you an analogy. There's a local mom-and-pop produce shop in town, and while some people love supporting local businesses, I find that getting my groceries from Walmart for a lot less serves me just as well. Similarly, with wrestling, my $6 Peacock subscription satisfies my wrestling viewing needs perfectly.

I recently had a discussion with a friend who argued, "Well, you can just download a torrent of the PPV the next day." But that's not the point for me. I want to watch a pay-per-view live, just like I want to eat a pizza when it's delivered, not the next day.

In the end, pay-per-views are about the payoff, and because of the price difference, I'm less likely to invest as much in weekly AEW TV as I would in WWE.

And to add some historical perspective, during the Monday Night Wars, if WWF had a PPV for $30, WCW PPVs were also priced at $30. Even ECW's PPVs were around $20. So when people argue, "well, Tony Khan can't afford to price pay-per-views the same as WWE," my inner Mr. Pink from "Reservoir Dogs" emerges, and I just want to say, "here's the world's smallest violin." Tony Khan needs to figure out a way to make it work.

[yokohamacpfc]

The weekly “These days if you criticize AEW you get the chair” posts always remind me of culture war warriors who complain of being “silenced” and “cancelled” when they have a column in the NYT and a regular spot on Maher. No offense to OP who I’m sure is just making conversation but the fact that the topic of AEW criticism is discussed so openly rather contradicts the narrative that it is completely taboo.

I’d separate tribalism from regular criticism by defining tribalism as an attitude towards the disliked company that is doing damage to the critics mental health. If you showed the tweets of Gareth or the bloke who pretends to be Vince/HHH or the bloke with the fat Jericho avatar (I’m useless at remembering user names) to their families then they would stage an intervention.

[héad.casé]

May 16, 2024 16:34:13 GMT -5 yokohamacpfc said:

The weekly “These days if you criticize AEW you get the chair” posts always remind me of culture war warriors who complain of being “silenced” and “cancelled” when they have a column in the NYT and a regular spot on Maher. No offense to OP who I’m sure is just making conversation but the fact that the topic of AEW criticism is discussed so openly rather contradicts the narrative that it is completely taboo.

I’d separate tribalism from regular criticism by defining tribalism as an attitude towards the disliked company that is doing damage to the critics mental health. If you showed the tweets of Gareth or the bloke who pretends to be Vince/HHH or the bloke with the fat Jericho avatar (I’m useless at remembering user names) to their families then they would stage an intervention.

This Gareth fella was the guy who couldn’t stop tweeting about how awful Jade Cargill was when she was in AEW, but as soon as she signed with WWE he tweeted “Welcome to the team” from what I remember.

[SirLucas]

May 16, 2024 16:47:00 GMT -5 héad.casé said:

May 16, 2024 16:34:13 GMT -5 yokohamacpfc said:

The weekly “These days if you criticize AEW you get the chair” posts always remind me of culture war warriors who complain of being “silenced” and “cancelled” when they have a column in the NYT and a regular spot on Maher. No offense to OP who I’m sure is just making conversation but the fact that the topic of AEW criticism is discussed so openly rather contradicts the narrative that it is completely taboo.

I’d separate tribalism from regular criticism by defining tribalism as an attitude towards the disliked company that is doing damage to the critics mental health. If you showed the tweets of Gareth or the bloke who pretends to be Vince/HHH or the bloke with the fat Jericho avatar (I’m useless at remembering user names) to their families then they would stage an intervention.

This Gareth fella was the guy who couldn’t stop tweeting about how awful Jade Cargill was when she was in AEW, but as soon as she signed with WWE he tweeted “Welcome to the team” from what I remember.

I don't know the Gareth fella. But my critique was that Jade Cargill was a champion on PPVs that were loaded with 14 plus matches, including multi-person matches, battle royals and other gimmick matches. I didn't think she was awful in AEW but the way AEW tries to shoehorn so much on a pay per view, didn't really give Jade much room to shine. Case and point, Jade's run in AEW is all one big blur to me. 

[01010010 01101001 01100011]

Wow, can't even call that first bit a swing and miss as I don't think you were even near the stadium.

Tribalism is alive and well in wrestling and always has been. NWA v. WWF, ECW v. WWF v. WCW, RAW v. Smackdown v. NXT, and so on. People become fiercely loyal to what they like and will fight tooth and nail to tell you why you're a f***ing idiot that doesn't know your mouth from your sister's ass so you have no right to talk about (blank). Look outside of here to Youtube to TwiXter to Facebook to reddit and so on.

It's something that has only gotten worse with WWE being largely unopposed and and to craft their own narrative for nearly 20 years. A whole generation of fans that mostly had no exposure to anything but WWE are now seeing things and having better access to Japan, Mexico and Europe as well as the indies and ask of that. That was after school, Friday nights and all day Saturday for me until I turned 16 or 17 and WCW folded. For some it's a whole new world to explore, others is not their cup of tea, but for a few it is challenging their beliefs, their traditions and they don't like it.

See how Meltzer is and was viewed for his opinions on AEW and WWE, how it has morphed as he has found less about AEW he likes or openly praises to critiquing them to giving AJ/Cody 5 Stars. And I'm not saying he is tribalistic, just you can see it in the responses to him.

[UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm]

Beating each other with hammers and insulting everyone’s mothers over whether blue or red bag Doritos are better, asking for the other flavor to be discontinued meanwhile purple bag eaters enjoy them all and say they’re just chips

[ASYLUMHAUSEN]

With an opening sentence like that I have to, by default, question the intent behind this post…I mean…acting like using the word is the exclusive domain of AEW fans is…whew…certainly a choice.

Anyway….

Tribalism exists in many areas, it’s just not necessarily called tribalism.
•Michigan football (GO BLUE!) Can’t stand Ohio St football (and vice versa)...
•WVU football fans can’t stand (Eat Shit) Pitt football...
•Red Sox fans can’t stand the Yankees....
•Man U fans can’t stand Man City football (or soccer depending on which side of the Atlantic you’re on)...

….and so forth and so on.

The people in the venn diagram who dabble in wrestling tribalism are their own individual circles while the overlapping circles of the actual Venn diagram just like professional wrestling (though usually/generally/sometimes prefer one of the major companies over the other - like me? My attention is on AEW…but I keep up with WWE, GCW, NJPW, etc…and I don’t belittle anyone who prefers something other than AEW)

Assuming your question came from a place of good intentions I hoe that helps.

[KME]

Yes, it fairly obviously exists, take once glance at the absolute cesspool that is the comment section of an AEW social media post and it's pretty bloody obvious. What you're describing, your personal experience, doesn't sound like tribalism, if you just prefer something else that's absolutely fine, but you wouldn't be the sort of person people are referring to when talking about tribal fans anyway and I kind of think you already know that. That opening line is very iffy though.

May 16, 2024 16:47:00 GMT -5 héad.casé said:

May 16, 2024 16:34:13 GMT -5 yokohamacpfc said:

The weekly “These days if you criticize AEW you get the chair” posts always remind me of culture war warriors who complain of being “silenced” and “cancelled” when they have a column in the NYT and a regular spot on Maher. No offense to OP who I’m sure is just making conversation but the fact that the topic of AEW criticism is discussed so openly rather contradicts the narrative that it is completely taboo.

I’d separate tribalism from regular criticism by defining tribalism as an attitude towards the disliked company that is doing damage to the critics mental health. If you showed the tweets of Gareth or the bloke who pretends to be Vince/HHH or the bloke with the fat Jericho avatar (I’m useless at remembering user names) to their families then they would stage an intervention.

This Gareth fella was the guy who couldn’t stop tweeting about how awful Jade Cargill was when she was in AEW, but as soon as she signed with WWE he tweeted “Welcome to the team” from what I remember.

Is that the guy who described himself as a "warrior for WWE"?

Either way he's the absolute worst, just a complete and utter c***.

[Malibu Albino]

I’m gonna start by saying that I wouldn’t define anything you’ve posted as “tribalism” and when people on this board talk about that sort of thing they are rarely talking about this forum and the regular posters within it. Tribalism comes up because a lot of us see it in other online spaces, you can go on to any AEW social media page and see exactly what I’m talking about. You can also see it happen here when a big, usually negative, thing happens and a bunch of randos who just made accounts come in and start posting trash talk.

There seems to be a fair amount of “you can’t post negative comments about AEW” sentiment from some, not just OP, and a lot of it feels less like constructive criticism and more like people saying “whenever I post a negative comment about AEW I get people responding to me.” And like yeah, we’re not discussing 2013-2016 TNA or WCW 2000 here. There are a lot of people who enjoy AEW and are going to disagree with a criticism you have of it. That’s okay! I’d say that is part of a healthy discussion forum. Provided your goal is to have a discussion and not just dunk on the company and then leave.

In short, tribalism is real even if it doesn’t show up much here and that discussing the negatives of the company is something you shouldn’t expect to do without a few responses.

[mrbananagrabber]

Of course it exists. Go on Twitter and look the majority of the comments. WWE is for children. AEW is an indie mudshow. Actual good matches and moments from both companies get needlessly criticised. Whether it’s some asshole putting laughing emojis at the news of Kenny’s real life illness or the scumbags who attacked Samantha Irvin for thanking Cornette for praising her. I don’t know why it’s as bad as it is, but to say it doesn’t exist - from the worst WWE and AEW fans - is just wishful thinking.

[Tiger Millionaire]

Just check out any ratings post or thread on social media that is swarmed up by people who don't watch the show. I think that's where it is different from when I was a kid during the 90s, there was a ton of tribalism, but it involved being somewhat knowledgeable about the other product, now, you go in, say your nonsense and have 50 other people with no idea agree with you and prop you up. It's much easier.

[Rudy Gobert Fadeaway]

May 16, 2024 16:51:58 GMT -5 UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm said:

Beating each other with hammers and insulting everyone’s mothers over whether blue or red bag Doritos are better, asking for the other flavor to be discontinued meanwhile purple bag eaters enjoy them all and say they’re just chips

We the black bag Doritos society are offended as shit 

[Kalmia]

Tribalism would be me, someone who doesn't watch WWE any more because it isn't my thing, going onto the WWE board and taking about how shit WWE is purely because I like AEW better. It'd be me trying to score points on Twitter by replying to every tweet WWE puts out saying their wrestling quality is awful and taking glee in everything that's happened with Vince McMahon because it makes AEW look better. It's instantly hating everything a company puts out because the wrong company does it and making sure everyone else hears about your hatred.

If you don't like something, that's fair enough. But if you hate everything, then why are you wasting time watching it? If you aren't watching, why are you wasting your time commenting as if you are?

[bearned]

People like different things, that’s life. I don’t really have a huge problem with anyone who just decides they don’t like AEW or WWE, as long as it’s genuine. Personally I just like wrestling, I’ll watch anything if it’s available to me.

[UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm]

May 16, 2024 17:51:05 GMT -5 Rudy Gobert Fadeaway said:

May 16, 2024 16:51:58 GMT -5 UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm said:

Beating each other with hammers and insulting everyone’s mothers over whether blue or red bag Doritos are better, asking for the other flavor to be discontinued meanwhile purple bag eaters enjoy them all and say they’re just chips

We the black bag Doritos society are offended as shit 

hey buddy frito lay off me i'll switch your snack with plain bugles you think i won't i will