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Post by Ultimo Chocula on May 24, 2007 14:16:33 GMT -5
I've never heard his ECW promos but I did see him during both his Dynamic Dude and Franchise in WCW days and he really did nothing for me either time. Me thinks he's a creation of pure hype. Of course that's only my own personal opinion.
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Post by thebudman2006 on May 24, 2007 14:27:13 GMT -5
I LOVE SHANE DOUGLAS!
Edit:don't type round filters.
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What?
Don Corleone
Mr. Money in Teh Banned.
Tu que pasa? You ain't even in my clasa.
Posts: 2,036
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Post by What? on May 25, 2007 6:59:40 GMT -5
Shawn's claim was that all he ever did was curse and try to run down the legends and didn't have much else to say besides that. Flair offers his opinion of Douglas in his book, saying that all Douglas would do is whine and blame everyone else for his lack of success, saying that if he was truly great, he would've risen above all that and succeeded. I agree with them and have always thought Shane's work has been horribly overrated Agreed.
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Post by DrizzlinShytes on May 25, 2007 9:30:01 GMT -5
Shane Douglas would have you believe he is better than Flair and HBK combined.
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illwauk
Tommy Wiseau
Eww... this place got old man stink!
Posts: 52
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Post by illwauk on May 25, 2007 12:41:59 GMT -5
Maybe Shane isn't the best promo man, but he could be a lot worse. At least he has the sense to know his weaknesses and do whatever he can to hide them unlike SOME people who apparently think the best way to hide them is to be married to the boss' daughter.
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WWHHHD
Unicron
Break it down for a 5 second pose!
Posts: 3,467
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Post by WWHHHD on May 25, 2007 15:56:29 GMT -5
Shane Douglas will always be my favorite. He always talked people into the building.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on May 25, 2007 16:31:41 GMT -5
what did shane say about magnum t.a. iv heard he said somthing but dont know what it was he said something about Magnum T.A. blowing guys in the lockerroom, in so many words, and I'm not sure why he even brought up the name because he obviously was never involved in anything with Magnum, it juts sounded like he heard a rumor and couldn't wait to tell everybody that makes no sense to me, why would Magnum who at the time was poised to be "the next big thing" need to blow people, seriously he was over for being him. Magnum and Douglas weren't even working in the same era, so Douglas insulting Magnum makes no sense, by the time Douglas debuted in WCW, Magnum was just an announcer.
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bobolebowski
Don Corleone
The Future....Of....THE WORLD!
Posts: 1,508
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Post by bobolebowski on May 25, 2007 16:50:55 GMT -5
Now I think Shane Douglas has definitely been able to put on some damn good matches. You guys say his in ring work was overrated but I do feel that he could deliever on some occasions when it came to in the ring, he also would work hurt A LOT so you gotta give him credit for that (broken pallat, fractured cheek bone, messed up arm/elbow, compound fracture of the wrist). But with all that said, I still didnt think he could deliever great promos all the time.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on May 25, 2007 17:05:10 GMT -5
His promos as Dean Douglas where he'd use the "authoritative teacher" voice were pretty good for what they were.
Matt Striker also can cut a great promo using the smarmy condescending teacher tone.
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on May 26, 2007 1:26:23 GMT -5
You can't exactly trust the opinions of HBK and Flair when it comes to Douglas--I think we all know why. Of course they'd try to run him down. In situations like this you have to consider the sources: on one hand you have a proven liar (and on video no less) who tried to bury Douglas (along with the Clique) and the other (Flair) was harshly criticized by Douglas. On the other hand, I wouldn't exactly believe everything Douglas says about Shawn and Flair either. Everyone has their own agenda that they want other people to believe. That's probably one of the reasons we share opinions with each other in the first place.
I'm aware that in situations like this, people tend to support the person that they like the best. However, I think that a person's motivation for making a claim must be examined and observable facts taken into account. Based my own qualifications of a good talker, I would conclude that Shane was good on the mic. I can't claim that he's objectively good, but from my POV he's good at talking.
Finally, consider this: Who decides whether a wrestler is good on the mic or not? Is it the fans? Is it the peers of a wrestler? Are they good or bad because other people perceive them to be? Or are they intrinsically good or bad? And how would one go about proving any of this?
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bobolebowski
Don Corleone
The Future....Of....THE WORLD!
Posts: 1,508
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Post by bobolebowski on May 26, 2007 1:49:15 GMT -5
You can't exactly trust the opinions of HBK and Flair when it comes to Douglas--I think we all know why. Of course they'd try to run him down. In situations like this you have to consider the sources: on one hand you have a proven liar (and on video no less) who tried to bury Douglas (along with the Clique) and the other (Flair) was harshly criticized by Douglas. On the other hand, I wouldn't exactly believe everything Douglas says about Shawn and Flair either. Everyone has their own agenda that they want other people to believe. That's probably one of the reasons we share opinions with each other in the first place. I'm aware that in situations like this, people tend to support the person that they like the best. However, I think that a person's motivation for making a claim must be examined and observable facts taken into account. Based my own qualifications of a good talker, I would conclude that Shane was good on the mic. I can't claim that he's objectively good, but from my POV he's good at talking. Finally, consider this: Who decides whether a wrestler is good on the mic or not? Is it the fans? Is it the peers of a wrestler? Are they good or bad because other people perceive them to be? Or are they intrinsically good or bad? And how would one go about proving any of this? Well as far as people liking each other because of BS theres a saying theres three sides to every story...your side, my side, and the truth. As far as telling if a wrestler is good on the mic or not, just open your eyes and watch tape, guys who captivate your attention and are able to tell great stories such as a Mick Foley, Roddy Piper, Bobby Heenan, Jake Roberts, The Rock, Steve Austin, Raven, Brian Pillman, and Arn Anderson are all great promo guys. Someone who stutters over their words, forgets what they are talking about, if you can barely understand them, or leaves you thinking what the hell did I just hear probably isnt such a great promo guy. Like Shelton Benjamin, Lex Luger, Chris Benoit at times, Matt Hardy, Lance Storm, Dean Malenko, The Ultimate Warrior at times, Goldberg, and Brock Lesnar arent the best, even though some guys cant deny their in ring ability.
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on May 26, 2007 2:08:24 GMT -5
Well as far as people liking each other because of BS theres a saying theres three sides to every story...your side, my side, and the truth. But how do we know who's telling the truth? Based on observable facts, it wouldn't be wise to trust someone like Shawn Michaels. And you have to question the motives of Flair and Douglas. I agree that the wrestlers you mentioned are great talkers. But, like I said earlier, it's easy to tell the great promo guys and the downright terrible ones. When it comes to guys who are only "good," it becomes more subjective. Here's where the subjective nature comes in. You mentioned Hardy and Storm: I don't think they're bad on the mic. Storm has cut good promos and so has Hardy (during his V-1 days mostly). In the case of Hardy, he cut a disappointing promo when he returned from being fired. Thus, fans start saying he's bad on the mic, which other fans believed and internalized. All this happens despite the fact that he's cut good promos consistently in the past. It has nothing to do with Hardy's actual mic skills, it's just an example of an idea being repeated enough that it's accepted. This doesn't just happen with promos either. If a wrestler botches a few spots in a short period of time then he could be labeled a "botch artist." You have to question things of this nature. For another example, look at Scott Steiner. He slurred his words and got some other stuff wrong in his promo against 3D, but it was still a good promo. And many people have the opinion that Scott is bad on the mic, when clearly one can see him cut this good promo. There's no clear distinction on who's good and who isn't--we just think that there's one. I think the closest you can come to telling who's good on the mic is by how the fans react, but even that isn't perfect.
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STMP
Hank Scorpio
Wild and Only 50
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Post by STMP on May 26, 2007 11:53:57 GMT -5
Shane Douglas has a talent for making you believe he is a great wrestler, without trying to make himself look good. Shane Douglas won't say "I'm the best wrestler in the world and I could sell out any arena". Instead he says "I had a great match against Terry Funk that was well recieved by the ECW fans and then I went into WWF where Shawn Micheals held me down and a teacher gimmick ruined any change of getting over."
When he says something like that, he makes it sound like he is a great wrestler because he had a great match with a legendary wrestler. And it would only be logical that the WWF would want to push him. But that didn't happen and the reason is someone who didn't like him. And he himself isn't responsible at all.
He makes it look like he is just a very talented wrestler who never got a break because everybody held him down. As if he is Chris Jericho.
I don't know enough about Shane Douglas to say if he really is as good as he pretends he is. And being on top in ECW doesn't mean that much, because Heyman was terrific at hiding people's flaws. He made Mike Awesome into one of the most dominating champions in pro-wrestling. Even though Mike had that stupid mullet, no mic skills, little charisma and only knew how to work one type of match (which he did great, but only worked well with Tanaka). He probably did the same with Shane Douglas.
What I did see from Shane was that he definately had some skill. He had a good look, very confident and his cursing became part of his gimmick. He just overdid it, just like Austin with the finger. It didn't mean anything anymore and just got annoying.
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Post by sexualvanilla on May 26, 2007 12:34:24 GMT -5
Regarding Douglas, one could also take into account what Mick Foley said in his first book. He trained with Douglas and the two are good friends, but admitted that Douglas had a talent for burning bridges and not knowing when to shut up (regarding his tenure in the WWF) so even a friend testified that his disappointing run wasn't just clique-ish hate
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stopheles
Mike the Goon
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Post by stopheles on May 26, 2007 13:15:39 GMT -5
Douglas's heel promos were great with or without cursing -- they made him look like a belligerent, arrogant jackass WHO COULD BACK IT UP IN THE RING but couldn't resist taking potshots at the bigger companies and legends on behalf of the trashy little fed that was trying to claw its way up to spit in the eyes of the majors.
You wanna talk about an ECW guy who could only get over by cursing?
Rhino.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 27, 2007 21:56:46 GMT -5
reading a bit about Douglas' history, he's just very bitter at the world. When he sterted, everybody billed him as the next big thing, and then he never got a fair chance in either NWA/WCW or WWF, and he really believes the reasons for that are Flair and the Klique (though the Klique probably can be blamed).
As for HBK's book, I like the book, but Shawn comes off as a prick to me, and the whole book is pretty much me vs. the world (and Bret Hart)
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Blindkarevik
Grimlock
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Post by Blindkarevik on May 28, 2007 12:04:30 GMT -5
Shane seems to be so paranoid that at this moment, simply by making this thread and doubting his legitimacy, you have now made his list of "People Who Screwed Me Over."
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