HBK- greatest WWE superstar ever?

[Stotty]

Based solely on performance in the WWE, do you think Shawn Michaels is the greatest of all time. i personally don't care what happens backstage, he may be an ass, but he brings it to the ring like no one else.This July, he celebrates 20 years with the company, longer than any other performer

Look at some of his accomplishments:

- revolutionized tag team wrestling in the WWF with Marty Janetty
- proved his in ring ability by making the Intercontinental championship red hot, along with Razor Ramon, and Bret Hart.
-competed in one of the greatest WWE matches of all time, the ladder match at WMX
- competed in arguably THE greatest WWE match of all time, in the iron man match with Bret Hart
- wrestled solid 4 to 5 star matches against guys that aren't known for their in ring ability, i.e. Vader, Sid, Diesel
- competed in the first (and best) hell in a cell
-was the first grand slam champion
-created DX, one of the most famous, and revolutionary stables of all time, yes, it may be a lot like the NWO, but was different enough to set it apart
- original leader of the new generation
-among the first to embrace the WWF attitude
- returned from career threatening injury after four years to put on classics with Jericho, Angle, HHH and more
-still among the best promos in the business
-still among the best wrestlers in the business

I know he didn't draw like Hogan or Austin, but in a period where business was down he proved a lot of people wrong by making people care about the title again, and making it a 'wrestling' title not the 'the guy who draws most' title. In my opinion, HBK has a serious claim to being the greates, all round WWE superstar of all time. Agree? Disagree? Discuss.

[Big Daddy Bad Booking]

Well, for WWE sakes, I say yes. He has the charisma, the move set, and the work ethic that everyone should aspire to. His peak was at WWF's lowest, not because of HBK, but because of the war and WWF's lack of original, daring product (at the time). I still say that at almost 42, HBK can wrestle like he's 25.

[Red 'n' Black Reggie]

in terms of being a good investment, damn right. he has put on some of the best matches in wwe's history, and (at least nowadays) has been a really good example to follow backstage.

[bubbles]

I'd say Undertaker probably but HBK's up there

[therealmamamiller]

You make an excellent case for him and reading what you've written I would have to say he just might be. Shawn has always been among my top 2-3 wrestlers of all time but I never really saw him that way in terms of the WWE in general until I read this post. He definitely is everything you said, great wrestler, great on the mic, involved in some amazing matches and I didn't realize it's been 20 years with the company for him.

I also have to tell you that I've been priveleged to meet him on a few ocassions and even back in the day when he was supposedly a **** he was extremely friendly and polite to people he didn't really have to be.

Like the Undertaker (my #1 guy) Shawn has never been hyped as the flavor of the week (like The Rock & Austin) but he has been a steady and dynamic presence in the E.

[What?]

Read my sig.

[K7 - WC's Crowd Extra]

In a word.

No.

[Citizen Snips]

Nah. A great performer, yes. But the greatest WWE Superstar of ALL TIME? That's crazy, as that would encompass far more than just classic matches, as your list seems to indicate but not prove. Being one of the first to embrace Attitude puts him above Austin and Rock, who made Vince a billionaire with Attitude? His classic matches offset his TERRIBLE drawing power, thus making him better than Hogan and Andre? I don't see it.

[Kash Flagg]

The WWE determines greatest as drawing money. Shawn would be far distant to people like Hogan, Austin, and Rock...maybe to a lesser degree Triple H. Shawn and Bret would be equal I think.

[Hiroshi Hase]

Hogan, Rock, Austin, then probably Hart. Shawn's a good workhorse in the ring, but I wouldn't say the greatest superstar in WWE.

[Kash Flagg]

I mean, if you go by matches, then Angle and Beniot beat Shawn by a margin. So that theory doesn't hold very well.

Probably should add Foley as someone that would be higher along with the Undertaker.

[Austin's Middle Finger]

He's got talent, definitely. But so have a lot of wrestlers that weren't in the right place at the right time. He's been in a lot of great matches. But he wouldn't have been in a lot of those matches in the first place if it wasn't for some hefty backstage influence.

And besides, nobody outside the wrestling world gives a f*** about him. Everybody knows who Hogan, Austin and Rock are. But HBK? Back in 1996, everybody was too busy watching the nWo than him prancing about showing off his pubic hair.

[repomark]

Based on in ring work and back catelogue of matches - I whole heartedly agree with the original post that HBK has a very valid case as the greatest of all time. As a total package however - I would still always go with Austin. I am sure this thread has been done recently - but hey I am always willing to argue HBK's case as the greatest in ring performer the business has ever seen.

[salTy]

STONE COLD!! STONE COLD!! STONE COLD!! STONE COLD!!

[skillz]

curly said:

And besides, nobody outside the wrestling world gives a smurf about him. Everybody knows who Hogan, Austin and Rock are. But HBK? Back in 1996, everybody was too busy watching the nWo than him prancing about showing off his pubic hair.

Perfectly stated.

Talent is subjective. A great match is subjective. The original poster said that the Iron Man match was the best of all-time, while I and many others found it incredibly boring. Who is right? All of us. It's a matter of taste. I found Hogan incredibly entertaining in the ring. Some disagree. Fine. The thing is, none of that matters in the long run. Vince McMahon didn't push Hogan because he thought Hogan was a great wrestler. He pushed him because Hogan connected with the audience so much that it drew an insane amount of money. Replace Hogan's name with Austin, Rock, and Foley in the late-1990's, and it's the same thing.

Then we look at Shawn Michaels. From a business sense, he was bad. I don't have to explain how poor the WWF was in 1996. I stopped watching a little bit after WM 12, and only started watching again when Hall/Nash went to WCW and later when Hogan turned heel. I refused to watch a 200 pound male stripper parade around as World Champion in the WWF, while showing his pubes in his post-match celebrations. Turns out I wasn't alone in that sentiment.

No one outside of wrestling fans will know who Shawn Michaels is. That's not the greatest. The greatest is someone who transcends the industry and in some cases becomes bigger than it (Hogan and Rock come to mind instantly). Shawn is just someone who got pushed heavily during down periods.

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

Maybe the greatest 'wrestler', but not the greatest 'superstar'.

Like others have said, guys like Austin, Hogan, and Rock transcend wrestling and are famous to people who've never seen a wrestling match. Shawn was never even close to that level,

And Shawn is my favorite wrestler ever.

[J is Justice]

k7 said:

In a word.

No.

[chibidiablo]

Shawn is the greatest wrestler to ever perform in North America, bar none.

[brutuscheesecake]

The IC title was red hot long before Shawn got his hands on it.

Bret/HBK is not even close to being the greatest WWF match of all time. It was kind of boring with a predictable result (everybody knew Hitman was jobbing)

[What?]

chibidiablo said:

Shawn is the greatest wrestler to ever perform in North America, bar none.

No.