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Post by Rorschach on Apr 30, 2007 15:23:37 GMT -5
Just watched ONS 2 again last night (In part to get the bitter taste of YET ANOTHER Cena win out of my mouth) and something hit me as I was watching the Main Event. You know, RVD has had a LOT of chances to shine in this sport. A LOT. I mean, he's been in high level feuds, he's been the #1 guy in WWECW and the WWE simultaneously.....he's been all over RAW and Smackdown in prime time pushes.
And at the time of his ONS2 win over Cena, no one was a bigger star than RVD. A duel champion, with a prominent spot on TWO rosters and TWO shows....and the guy just throws it all away.
But that's not why I'm posting this here today. Why I'm posting this is because, while Rob Van Dam was getting the attention, the glory, the accolades, and the fame, someone else, who deserved it far more, was toiling in the shadows.
That person was, and still is, Tommy Dreamer.
See, long after RVD had bolted for the greener pastures of the WWE, Tommy sutck by ECW and Paul Heyman. Tommy Dreamer, to me, IS the embodiment of ECW, far more than RVD will ever be. Tommy outshines RVD at every turn, in every category. He's better on the mic, he's a better all around wrestler, and he's (to my knowledge) never been involved in a steroid or drug bust. He's a company man if ever there was one.
In my opinion it should have been Dreamer that beat Cena at ONS.....but the WWE went another direction, and a prime shot for Dreamer was given to someone who proved himself to be unreliable in the extreme.
Now, they have another chance to have Tommy step up, and be the one to take the Title off of Vince. Enough with Lashley, enough with Umaga, give Tommy the reign he deserves.
I know a lot of you say that Tommy has turned down pushes left and right, saying that he thinks the yonger guys deserve it more. That just proves to me that Tommy is due at least one ECW Title reign as a reward for his selflessness. Let Tommy be the one to take the belt from Vince, and then, if he doesn't want to carry it, let him drop it to Punk, Burke or one of the other New Breeders.
Why does this make me pissed at RVD? Cause he was given the kingdom, like Tommy NEVER was, and he pissed it all away. If I were a guy like Dreamer, I don't know that I could ever forgive RVD for doing that.
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Post by kawalimus on Apr 30, 2007 15:26:32 GMT -5
The whole point of Tommy Dreamer is that he loses all the time. He has basically been a glorified loser for his whole career and has embraced that role and become pretty popular because of(despite?) it. He hated the fact that he won the ECW title and said he would be much better not ever having done that. And he is correct. Having him in a high profile match like that would ruin his character.
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Post by Doctor Tull-eus S. Venture on Apr 30, 2007 15:30:09 GMT -5
Scott William's Hardcore History provides the perfect description of Tommy Dreamer as the "Chief" Jay Strongbow of ECW.
He's the No. 2 Guy in the company, and if you could secure a win over him, then you were a proven commodity worthy of the title.
And while I would love to see him get a run with the strap, I don't think it will happen. But if they booked Tommy to allow him to do more in the ring than just get pummeled in the nuts and thrown through a table, I think he'd make ahuge impact.
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Post by amplifierWORSHIP! on Apr 30, 2007 15:42:51 GMT -5
The whole point of Tommy Dreamer is that he loses all the time. He has basically been a glorified loser for his whole career and has embraced that role and become pretty popular because of(despite?) it. He hated the fact that he won the ECW title and said he would be much better not ever having done that. And he is correct. Having him in a high profile match like that would ruin his character. exactly what i was gonna say why would Tommy admonish RVD for, well.. BEING RVD? the one time Dreamer held the ECW title he was completely against the decision. i don't see him winning it again as a career highlight, especially if it's winning it from a senile chairman of the company. |
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pegasuswarrior
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Apr 30, 2007 15:46:41 GMT -5
he's a better all around wrestler I stopped reading and treating this thread as relevant at this point. |
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ookkie
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Post by ookkie on Apr 30, 2007 15:49:48 GMT -5
RVD's proficient in the use of pistols? |
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Post by Stu on Apr 30, 2007 15:52:31 GMT -5
As much as I like Dreamer, I can't say he would be the better man to hold the WWE title over RVD. Marijuana usage aside, RVD is healthier, more over, more athletic and may be younger (someone confirm this).
Besides, Dreamer only had two goals, which have been reached. Those were to wrestle at Madison Square Garden (he did a house show there a few years ago) and to have a Wrestlemania match (see his tears after his match?).
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Post by Bobafett on Apr 30, 2007 15:53:40 GMT -5
erm..RVD and Dreamer arrived at WE at the same time, he never bolted, if you watch RVD's DVD you'll know RVD cared alot about ECW
ok you don't like RVD, fair play, but he AND Dreamer deserve the same respect at ;east give VD that
its amazing people say back off the Orton hate but still hold things against RVD
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Post by ScottHall187 on Apr 30, 2007 16:19:55 GMT -5
See, long after RVD had bolted for the greener pastures of the WWE, Tommy sutck by ECW and Paul Heyman. Ummm didn't Dreamer and RVD debut on the same night when ECW joined the alliance? So your argument doesn't really make much sense there. But I will say that you have some points, it's just like everyone else is saying in that Dreamer is a main event jobber. His gimmick is to lose and only win occasionally. |
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Apr 30, 2007 16:19:56 GMT -5
Besides, Dreamer only had two goals, which have been reached. Those were to wrestle at Madison Square Garden (he did a house show there a few years ago) and to have a Wrestlemania match (see his tears after his match?). Don't forget that in 2002, Dreamer lost the hardcore title to RVD in MSG. And after that match, Dreamer was crying. IMO that was a better match than TLC IV. |
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Post by radicalbuttercup on Apr 30, 2007 16:25:17 GMT -5
"long after RVD had bolted for the greener pastures of the WWE, Tommy sutck by ECW and Paul Heyman."
Didn't RVD stay with ECW until the end? Didn't Dreamer and RVD both debut at the same time in WWE? And, besides, near the end of ECW, the guy's were being paid at ALL. It's a wonder they stuck around as long as they did. I dunno too many people who would go to work and not get paid for it.
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Post by davyd doesn't eat meat on Apr 30, 2007 16:40:14 GMT -5
While RVD & Dreamer both debuted in WWE on the same night, RVD had been seen veeeery rarely in the last 6 to 8 months of ECW's existence, mainly due to the fact that he was owed a lot of money, and decided it wasn't worth it. Tommy stuck around, and fought his ass off, spent his own money to help keep ECW afloat and was on the very last ECW pay-per-view...
I understand completely what the original poster is saying, as Tommy Dreamer has not, and probably never will get the credit he truly deserves for the success of ECW.
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Post by radicalbuttercup on Apr 30, 2007 16:46:14 GMT -5
Not to discredit Dreamer but he's not the only who stuck around when he wasn't being paid.
And RVD wrestled Lynn at the last ECW pay per view.
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Post by mysterydriver on Apr 30, 2007 16:46:38 GMT -5
he's a better all around wrestler I stopped reading and treating this thread as relevant at this point. I take it you like kicks. Lots and lots of kicks. |
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Post by radicalbuttercup on Apr 30, 2007 16:48:11 GMT -5
I stopped reading and treating this thread as relevant at this point. I take it you like kicks. Lots and lots of kicks. I like Tommy as much as the next guy but...if it's not a hardcore match, he's not terribly exciting in the ring. |
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bigHEADinc
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Post by bigHEADinc on Apr 30, 2007 16:53:29 GMT -5
I take it you like kicks. Lots and lots of kicks. I like Tommy as much as the next guy but...if it's not a hardcore match, he's not terribly exciting in the ring.  Have you guys seen the movie Idiocracy? It's about the most average person in the world (Intelligence, physicality, weight, etc.) being accidentally frozen for 500 years and he becomes the smartest person alive. Dreamer is that guy when it comes to the ring, average. I can't recall a single spectacular thing that he's done (outside of a few of his hardcore matches)... |
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Post by davyd doesn't eat meat on Apr 30, 2007 16:54:01 GMT -5
Not to discredit Dreamer but he's not the only who stuck around when he wasn't being paid. And RVD wrestled Lynn at the last ECW pay per view. That completely slipped my mind, but before that he hadn't been seen in ECW in months. Maybe I'm a little biased since Tommy & Beulah just bought a house in my hometown (Beulah was raised here & went to school with my uncle. I've ran into them once or twice as well). |
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bigHEADinc
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Wanted Conway Twitty as a special title.
lest we forget...
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Post by bigHEADinc on Apr 30, 2007 16:55:38 GMT -5
Not to discredit Dreamer but he's not the only who stuck around when he wasn't being paid. And RVD wrestled Lynn at the last ECW pay per view. That completely slipped my mind, but before that he hadn't been seen in ECW in months. Maybe I'm a little biased since Tommy & Beulah just bought a house in my hometown (Beulah was raised here & went to school with my uncle. I've ran into them once or twice as well). I thought they got a divorce... |
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Apr 30, 2007 16:56:49 GMT -5
I take it you like kicks. Lots and lots of kicks. I like Tommy as much as the next guy but...if it's not a hardcore match, he's not terribly exciting in the ring. What if the next guy is Tommy's mom? |
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stopheles
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Post by stopheles on Apr 30, 2007 16:58:09 GMT -5
I stopped reading and treating this thread as relevant at this point. I take it you like kicks. Lots and lots of kicks. Well, I do when they're in the service of a 25-minute match with good psychology, a few great spots, and a lot of technical matwork. More interesting than "hit the opponent with a cookie sheet a few times, get hit with a cookie sheet a few times, then pull off the opponent's finisher for the win," anyway. |
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