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Post by MGH on Apr 8, 2007 23:02:25 GMT -5
Once I saw the Kingston shoot from December where he pretty much said CZW sucked, I kind of knew things weren't all that peachy around there. I don't know how good it used to be, but since I've been watching it hasn't been anything all that great. I hate to see a promotion go out, should that be what happens, but if it's in that state of disarray maybe it's for the best.
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Post by eDemento2099 on Apr 8, 2007 23:32:08 GMT -5
Good riddance. CZW's best talent have always gone on to better things outside the promotion Nick Mondo? Anyway, I wish those of you who said they wished CZW would 'die' would consider how much worse the state of wrestling will be in North America with even fewer independent federations to save the sport from what Vince McMahon is doing to it.
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Post by Arturo Classico on Apr 8, 2007 23:48:47 GMT -5
You know I am not a CZW fan at all. I saw them starting when ECW was still alive and they always seem to me be the bad stereotype of what people viewed ECW as. Although not as bad as XPW(which ironically is coming back. Although they have had quality talent like Claudio, Hero, BLKOUT and many, many talented junior heavyweights I could never get behind CZW for the sole reason that all they try to do is go for the most hardcore matches and nothing else and to me they came off as total shit.
I mean I don't mind hardcore wrestling but just having the most extreme matches just to do them always seemed stupid. I mean thats not why I watched ECW, I watched because they would swing cheers and use weapons but they had a purpose to do so and to put on the best matches they could. If CZW dies what will they leave behind? I don't see really how CZW made an impact on wrestling at all. I mean it was decent enough but nothing really special. ECW was important and changed the business, IWA:MS to me is better and like ECW combined hardcore wrestlingmatches with really good matches. XPW casted the shame placed on hardcore wrestling and made other promotions like ECW like like total garbage and it wasn't a good impact but an impact non the less. From what I've seen of CZW it's all been super spotty wrestling and pointless hardcore matches. None of the feuds intreasted me at all.
I think really CZW lasting as long as it did is amazing. Hardcore wrestling is dormant for now and CZW is not the brand to make it popular now none of the stars are very engaging to me( the only ones I cared for there were Hero and Ruckus) and like I said I don't think CZW made any impact on the wrestling business. Also look at all there stars there now they are leaving because of management or because of all the super unnecessary risks they are retiring. I mean look at LuFisto.
Sadly although I do despise Eddie Kingston and I think he unholingly sucks I agree with him CZW sucks, because they have such a narrow focus and just being hardcore to be hardcore is lame. Truely all CZW is to me is garbage wrestling no technique and skill. Sure they are passionate about what they do but that dosen't make them good. I mean Dreamer didn't have all the best skills but he still had some decent skills. Seriously they were lucky to have Hero for so long he al least made them look somewhat decent.
What do they have now? Nothing thats why CZW sucks and should die in my book f*** the Cage of Death what a stupid f***ing match. I mean seriously isn't a cage enough? Now you have to add tacks, barbwire and other shit to make it hardcore? Seriously no imagination at all. Sorry I guess I'm ranting but in some ways I hate CZW and I hate that they try to come off as so superior when they are total garbage and to compare what The Shiek, Sabu, Atsushi Onita, Cactus Jack, Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, and Raven is a total joke thats why when they do die I will feel no sorrow for them since they are one of those companies that do make hardcore wrestling look like garbage wrestling.
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Apr 9, 2007 0:54:36 GMT -5
You know I am not a CZW fan at all. I saw them starting when ECW was still alive and they always seem to me be the bad stereotype of what people viewed ECW as. Although not as bad as XPW(which ironically is coming back. Although they have had quality talent like Claudio, Hero, BLKOUT and many, many talented junior heavyweights I could never get behind CZW for the sole reason that all they try to do is go for the most hardcore matches and nothing else and to me they came off as total crap. I mean I don't mind hardcore wrestling but just having the most extreme matches just to do them always seemed stupid. I mean thats not why I watched ECW, I watched because they would swing cheers and use weapons but they had a purpose to do so and to put on the best matches they could. If CZW dies what will they leave behind? I don't see really how CZW made an impact on wrestling at all. I mean it was decent enough but nothing really special. ECW was important and changed the business, IWA:MS to me is better and like ECW combined hardcore wrestlingmatches with really good matches. XPW casted the shame placed on hardcore wrestling and made other promotions like ECW like like total garbage and it wasn't a good impact but an impact non the less. From what I've seen of CZW it's all been super spotty wrestling and pointless hardcore matches. None of the feuds intreasted me at all. I think really CZW lasting as long as it did is amazing. Hardcore wrestling is dormant for now and CZW is not the brand to make it popular now none of the stars are very engaging to me( the only ones I cared for there were Hero and Ruckus) and like I said I don't think CZW made any impact on the wrestling business. Also look at all there stars there now they are leaving because of management or because of all the super unnecessary risks they are retiring. I mean look at LuFisto. Sadly although I do despise Eddie Kingston and I think he unholingly sucks I agree with him CZW sucks, because they have such a narrow focus and just being hardcore to be hardcore is lame. Truely all CZW is to me is garbage wrestling no technique and skill. Sure they are passionate about what they do but that dosen't make them good. I mean Dreamer didn't have all the best skills but he still had some decent skills. Seriously they were lucky to have Hero for so long he al least made them look somewhat decent. What do they have now? Nothing thats why CZW sucks and should die in my book wax the Cage of Death what a stupid waxing match. I mean seriously isn't a cage enough? Now you have to add tacks, barbwire and other crap to make it hardcore? Seriously no imagination at all. Sorry I guess I'm ranting but in some ways I hate CZW and I hate that they try to come off as so superior when they are total garbage and to compare what The Shiek, Sabu, Atsushi Onita, Cactus Jack, Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, and Raven is a total joke thats why when they do die I will feel no sorrow for them since they are one of those companies that do make hardcore wrestling look like garbage wrestling. ok now that's just coming off a little bit too harsh on the product. CZW did alot when they were being booked correctly. they brought us some awesome moments and they brought in alot of fans to the indy wrestling scene. Hey sometimes people just want to see a guy get hit in the chest with a weedwhacker. But the problem came when politics took over and destroyed the company. I mean this was the company that helpedmake guys like el generico, kevin steen, and even freaking super dragon get noticed in areas where they were hardly ever heard of. And for that I can't say that they were all bad. Infact they're the company that got me into indy wrestling to begin with. but then it all went to hell due to zandig being a female dog.
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Post by bob p kingston on Apr 9, 2007 2:09:36 GMT -5
y'all silly. i'm calling shenanigans why believe online rumors? those who don't watch it and criticize it are coming off as truly ignorant.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Apr 9, 2007 2:28:51 GMT -5
followed by the book The Death of CZW by RD Reynolds and Bryan Alverez How NOT to run an Indy is the subtitle Oh yeah doesn't CZW do matches featuring local Yard Tards... I know RUCKUS was recruited from his Yard Tard videos...eheh
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Post by bob p kingston on Apr 9, 2007 3:22:56 GMT -5
see what i mean?
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Post by jcdenton on Apr 9, 2007 3:46:04 GMT -5
see what?
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Post by bob p kingston on Apr 9, 2007 4:18:42 GMT -5
those who don't watch it and criticize it are coming off as truly ignorant.
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Post by joeman on Apr 9, 2007 7:57:35 GMT -5
Can't wait till CZW becomes another WWE developmental territory.
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Post by Big BosskMan on Apr 9, 2007 8:04:43 GMT -5
I've been to a few CZW shows (a couple Cages of Death, a Tournament of Death, etc.) and the promotion always kind of came off as amateurish bush league.
Shows never started on time. Hell, they didn't even open the doors on time. The last Tournament of Death became one spot after another - how many light tubes could be broken, how many tacks could be spilled, how many plates of glass were used. No focus on any kind of wrestling - just ultraviolent gimmicks.
I will give Zandig a bit of credit - through CZW I did get to see indy wrestlers like Jimmy Rave, Alex Shelley, Roderick Strong, El Generico, Ruckus, Chris Cash (RIP), Joker, Chris Hero, and others that I would not have normally had the chance to experience.
However, I don't know why Zandig would pin high expectations on a fat hack like DJ Hyde. That's a recipe for sure disaster.
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Brain Of F'n J
Hank Scorpio
Not that cool enough to have one of these....wait.
We Discodians must stick apart.
Posts: 6,890
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Post by Brain Of F'n J on Apr 9, 2007 8:12:51 GMT -5
y'all silly. i'm calling shenanigans why believe online rumors? those who don't watch it and criticize it are coming off as truly ignorant. And how do you know the people criticizing it here haven't watched it? I have, and it sucks. Aside from a couple people (Hero, Kingston, Jigsaw, Blackout), their roster is a bunch of Garbage McBackyard hacks, and their leader is the worst of the lot. I don't wish anyone financial hardship, but the promotion was never meant for longevity or quality, and looks like both are finally catching up to it. The indy scene is thriving quite nicely. I doubt the loss of CZW would hurt the scene overall. Jed Shaffer ~If Vince even knows of CZW, I'd be shocked.
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Post by American Nightmare on Apr 9, 2007 8:25:47 GMT -5
from its early days, i knew Zandig would be the death of the company. Rule #1 of booking, never put yourself in the main events unless you can draw.
CZW amazed me at how bad it could get over time. I used to watch in 2002 with guys like Mondo, the Backseat Boys, Ric Blade, the H8 Club. And i thought they were doing something cool. It was violence, but there was some inovation in it, especially 5 or so years back when ECW was dead. The last DVD i got was one of the newer COD's, i think this years, with Lufisto in the main event. It sucked to high hell. So many of their newer guys are yard tards, it sad. You are a reputable company, and cant even pay trained wrestlers to work your hardcore matches?
But looking back, its just an indy, and there are at least 3 other companies that run in the ECW arena, i doubt we'll be missing anything with CZW gone. I think its best Zandig leaves the wrestling world for good.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 9, 2007 8:35:18 GMT -5
huh, I was talkig to guys within the company yesterday and they said everything was fine.
If CZW does in fact die, Zandig has no one to blame but himself. His head booker, Matt Burn (no not Mondo),has gotten Zandig so many deals with other companies to share talent, but each time Zandig completely ignores it. The RH feud was not the only time Zandig blew a great oppurtunity, he dd the same to IWS,IWA MS, BJPW, and Wildside.
Burn wanted CZW to become a wrestling fed, but Zandig thnks he can survive souley being a hardcore fed with his "students" (Justice Pain, Nick Gage, Lobo, and Wifebeater).
I remember last year Burn and a group of friends were trying to buy CZW from Zandig; I hope thy're still trying.
If true, it was a good run. I should've known CZW was going down the tube when DJ Hyde started to get a push
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Apr 9, 2007 8:35:44 GMT -5
I did get one DVD last year, it was called CZW Fear or something like that and seemed really bushleague as it was held in some field or back lot of a amusement park and there were like 40 or 50 people there.
The only matchI found interest in were with Claudio/Hero vs. BLK OUT, and that was about it. The rest seemed very bleh to me and yes there are lots of better indy's out there such as ROH,PWG, and JAPW. If it were gone, I doubt it would hurt all that much,IMO.
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Ace Baretta
Unicron
WE ARE NASHVILLE (May 1, 2010)
Posts: 2,554
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Post by Ace Baretta on Apr 9, 2007 9:02:49 GMT -5
huh, I was talkig to guys within the company yesterday and they said everything was fine. No offense, but why would anyone tell an outsider if things were going down the pipes?
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thiazzi
Bubba Ho-Tep
FEAR
Posts: 598
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Post by thiazzi on Apr 9, 2007 9:07:18 GMT -5
Somebody needs to repost that awful f***ing match that was on here a while ago. It was like a battle of the yard tards. Four guys in street clothing completely ignoring story, pace, and psychology just dropping each other on their heads to the delight of the crowd. And the CZW fans were calling it a MOTY candidate.. Gone are the days of Frankie the Mobster and Sonjay, and actual wrestling.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 9, 2007 9:12:34 GMT -5
huh, I was talkig to guys within the company yesterday and they said everything was fine. No offense, but why would anyone tell an outsider if things were going down the pipes? not saying they would, but most of the time you can tell the mood of the employees and everybod seemed to be in good spirits. please tell me who was involved because I garuntee you CZW fans were not calling it MOTY seriously.
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Post by samachine on Apr 9, 2007 9:54:05 GMT -5
I saw this coming when Zandig's idiot self decided to job Steen out to LuFisto
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Post by kenwell on Apr 9, 2007 10:49:57 GMT -5
I remember last year Burn and a group of friends were trying to buy CZW from Zandig; I hope thy're still trying. First things first, Burns and Pancoast were fired before Cage of Death 7. They get CZW into this huge ROH fued, their biggest in years, and then Zandig tosses someone down the stairs, and fires the best booker his company has had as of late. As for Steen jobbing to Lufisto, Steen had the Ironman belt, but he seriously did not want it. He didn't want to be booked in CZW anymore because he likes it much better to be in IWS occasionally, and mainly in PWG. CZW is all but finished. They have alienated their most loyal fanbase, fired, or had some of their best stars quit. They stopped using the Wrestlefactory as a training ground for them and have DJ Hyde as the head trainer of their gym. The booking makes absolutely no sense anymore, with complete lack of storylines or relevance to anything. If they make it to Best of the Best this year, I guarantee it will be the worst one ever. Again, if they make it to the Tournament of Death, they might as well just call it quits after, because no one gives two shits about them anymore. You can only cater to bloodmarks for so long, after that, without a good technical background the foundation begins to crumble and you're left with an empty ECW arena and no one to blame but yourself.
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